Okay, I've got a bit of a dilemma, as well as a request, depending on the response.

My plug is an alternate-universe EVO, set about 150 years after the events in EVO, but in a timeline where things diverged about 100 years BEFORE that. (so in other words, different history, same players)

I've been developing the human worlds using Saber studios Confederation ship graphics and other re-rendered original EV ships to indicate a hhigher level of technology for the humans. This is NOT an EV/EVO crossover, however the humans are meant to be reminiscent of the EV versions (Basically, a blending of the two)

Now I'm wondering... should I give the humans the same weapons systems they had in EV (i.e. Proton cannons, torpedoes, etc) or go with original stuff. I've already set them up with original weapons systems, but I have a handful of pretty re-rendered EV weapons graphics, and i'm just wondering if the nostalgia is worth using them instead.

However, for this to really work I either have to import the original EV weapons graphics for the projectile-type weapons (blech) or find some re-rendered versions.

So what's the verdict? Right now the Confederation is using the weapons set included in Matt Daily's Quicksilver set (Which looks spiffy, but doesn't quite match the ships I'm using).

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In general, players tend to prefer new renderings if the universe diverges strongly.

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I'd suggest new graphics. If you use old graphics it can make people think you are unprofessional. I happen to know this from making an entire plug-in full of old other graphics. The weapons, even if they look the same, should probably also be re-rendered and modified...

NOTE; it is NOT a good thing, however, if you make the technology unrealistic. This is like...EVO is set before EVC. But EVO has some technologies that are better than those in EVC, which is, essentially unrealistic. Also in Star Trek Enterprise, notice how some of the technologies look 'better' than in the later Star Treks, although this is not technically true, just keep in mind realism of it all.

I suggest that you keep some of the old techs, but modify the graphics of them, and maybe some physics(damage, et cetera). And you should always have new stuff...

-Lequis

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Lequis Design
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Quote

Originally posted by Lequis MX:
**
NOTE; it is NOT a good thing, however, if you make the technology unrealistic. This is like...EVO is set before EVC. But EVO has some technologies that are better than those in EVC, which is, essentially unrealistic. Also in Star Trek Enterprise, notice how some of the technologies look 'better' than in the later Star Treks, although this is not technically true, just keep in mind realism of it all.

**

Yeah, notice how in SW Episode 1, all the ships look much better than in 4,5 and 6. Also, why did the Empire use human stormtroopers, when they could of had Robots with perfect targetting computers, no need for food, barracks or training (just fold em up and put em in a cubboard). George Lucas - professional idiot.

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Well, not gonna touch any Star Wars arguments lest I start a flame war of truly imperial proportions

Okay, in that case, I need to know if any re-rendered graphics are available for: Torpedoes and launchers, missiles and launchers, heavy rockets, etc. etc.

I've currently got Proton, Neutron and Laser weapons.

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Um, I could make you some or something. Unless you're referring to the actual 3D formatted models? No offense meant to Ambrosia, but most of the models in EV weren't THAT complicated so you can't easily make them... Of course, it would take me a year to recreate a Rapier, as they had curves, one thing that Bryce does NOT do.

-Lequis

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Quote

Originally posted by Lequis MX:
**Um, I could make you some or something. Unless you're referring to the actual 3D formatted models? No offense meant to Ambrosia, but most of the models in EV weren't THAT complicated so you can't easily make them... Of course, it would take me a year to recreate a Rapier, as they had curves, one thing that Bryce does NOT do.:)

-Lequis

**

Off the subject, but you can do curved surfaces by "painting them up" in the terrain modeller. There's a tutorial or two out there -- one guy made a Formula1 in Bryce Native. That said, I use Ray Dream's splines myself! :}

I'd also advise new graphics, even if the weapons are vastly similar. And technology is always evolving; who is to say there is not a whole group of weapons ("Photonic Cannon" or something) that offers no real edge in performance but just happened to win in the contract bidding against Blazers in this universe?

I find that a real sign of an organic world; something that was used for a while, you can still see a few around and kinda tell when you are dealing with older ships and less well supported militia, but it doesn't really alter game balance.

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"Nomuse"

Quote

Originally posted by Polenicus:
**Okay, I've got a bit of a dilemma, as well as a request, depending on the response.

<iSnip>

**

Sounds interesting. I say use totally new weapons, but you could still use some of the graphics for the old weapons. That would be interesting.

Good luck on your plug-in!

-Captain Carnotaur

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

(off topic ranting)CRAP! Thanks, Arashi. Bitmaps plus negatives equals curves! This is turning out to be a productive day.(/off topic ranting)

-Lequis

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Quote

Originally posted by Lequis MX:
EVO is set before EVC. But EVO has some technologies that are better than those in EVC, which is, essentially unrealistic. Also in Star Trek Enterprise, notice how some of the technologies look 'better' than in the later Star Treks, although this is not technically true, just keep in mind realism of it all.

Since Escape Velocity and EV Override are unconnected storylines, I don't see how it's 'unrealistic' for EV Override to have some more advanced technology than Escape Velocity. Just because it's set 100 years closer to the present doesn't mean that it can't have its own view of the future. As for Enterprise, in my view it's more important that it appear to take place in the future than that it appear to come before the other series.

Quote

Originally posted by the Necromicon:
Yeah, notice how in SW Episode 1, all the ships look much better than in 4,5 and 6.

Episode I takes place in a much better economic situation than IV, V, and VI, and the ships in it, many of which serve largely ceremonial functions, are designed by people who care about their appearance, as opposed to the Empire and Rebellion, which can't afford to spend their resources on anything without a practical function.

Quote

Originally posted by the Necromicon:
Also, why did the Empire use human stormtroopers, when they could of had Robots with perfect targetting computers, no need for food, barracks or training (just fold em up and put em in a cubboard).

The battle droids in Episode I weren't really all that effective - they did do a fair amount of damage on Naboo, but only because they vastly outnumbered their opponents.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in for the original Escape Velocity

(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 02-15-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**The battle droids in Episode I weren't really all that effective - they did do a fair amount of damage on Naboo, but only because they vastly outnumbered their opponents.

**

Hear hear David!
I totally agree with both your points.

On the Star Wars thing, I understood that the stuff in Episode I was supposed to look new, and all the bits that were still in use by Episode IV would look much older and shabbier. I never spotted it myself, but someone said that either in Episode I or in Episode II (which would explain why I haven't seen it) you actually get a glimpse of the Millennium Falcon when it was new.

An awful lot of science fiction writing is about technology degrading as time goes on. This is the whole point of Asimov's Foundation series, for example. We live in a time now where technology is advancing rapidly. However, this is quite a short period we're thinking about. If you look at the years 415 AD to 1200 AD a lot of things were going backwards. Weapons technology was improving, but instead of he elegant villas of the Romans with hypocausts, Europeans were building ugly castles with little in the way of polish.

All this is academic, however, since, as David pointed out, there is NO CONNECTION between EVO and EV in terms of their histories.

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Quote

(I refuse to give credit here. No one's flamed me yet!)
The battle droids in Episode I weren't really all that effective - they did do a fair amount of damage on Naboo, but only because they vastly outnumbered their opponents.

If you ask me, the Storm Troopers weren't exactly devastating eitherŃthey, too, relied largely on their numbers.

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The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason ŃWizard's Sixth Rule, Faith of the Fallen.
ŃCafall

Most things Imperial relied on numbers rather than individual strength

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Quote

Originally posted by Cafall:
If you ask me, the Storm Troopers weren't exactly devastating eitherŃthey, too, relied largely on their numbers.

True, but they were a lot more effective than the battle droids, and didn't fall apart if you destroyed their control ship.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in for the original Escape Velocity

The Naboo peoples had about at 30:1 kill ratio to the battle droids while the Rebels had about a 3:1 against Storm troopers.

Quote

Originally posted by kap:
The Naboo peoples had about at 30:1 kill ratio to the battle droids while the Rebels had about a 3:1 against Storm troopers.

Furthermore, Episode 1 was horrible, and the battle droid command signal thing was a ridiculous contrivance by uninspired scriptwriters (they used the same thing in Independance Day)that insults the audience with its inanity. No expectations of intelligent continuity should be made regarding it, and no arguements can expect a stable basis by referring to it, as it was in a completely different vogue from the other movies (May they be forever unsullied by their prequels!) and it was made when the creator was past his artistic prime for making or doing anything good except perhaps a stirring portrayal of Jabba the Hutt.

In any case, re-render the weapons and outfits, it really adds polish and a sense of 'completeness' to a plug. I was dissapointed enough with EVO when I saw that it used the same old graphic for afterburner, ram scoop, autorefueller, asteriod, etc.

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Modo Numerus Nemo Vir Est.
Sic Semper Omnibus!

This is unbelievably off topic. But I think we have addressed the problems at hand.

(publicity plea)And by the way, I can always help you with graphics.(/publicity plea)

-Nat

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Quote

Furthermore, Episode 1 was horrible, and the battle droid command signal thing was a ridiculous contrivance by uninspired scriptwriters (they used the same thing in Independance Day)that insults the audience with its inanity. No expectations of intelligent continuity should be made regarding it, and no arguements can expect a stable basis by referring to it, as it was in a completely different vogue from the other movies (May they be forever unsullied by their prequels!) and it was made when the creator was past his artistic prime for making or doing anything good except perhaps a stirring portrayal of Jabba the Hutt.

Actually, all the episodes were written at the same time, Lucas didn't do Episode 1 until later.
But come on, what do you expect? Episode 1 was the first part of a story written by a guy who hates to write more than anything else in the world.

Yes, this is off-topic. but it's fun!

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The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason ŃWizard's Sixth Rule, Faith of the Fallen.
ŃCafall

Quote

Originally posted by Cafall:
**Actually, all the episodes were written at the same time, Lucas didn't do Episode 1 until later.
But come on, what do you expect? Episode 1 was the first part of a story written by a guy who hates to write more than anything else in the world.

Yes, this is off-topic. but it's fun!

**

He concieved of the whole general story arc all at once, sort of. However, he didn't write down all the actual scripts and characters and so forth at that point, and I don't even think he wrote the script for Episode 1 anyway. Besides, You can't tell me the guy comes off American Graffitti or whatnot in the 70s and starts thinking about Jar Jar Binks. If you look at the early scripts of Ep4 (url="http://"http://www.wheelon.com/swscripts/scripts.htm")http://www.wheelon.c...pts/scripts.htm(/url) you'll find that they are completely alien to the resulting films (And rather ghastly too, he seems to have a natural tendency towards hackishess which was subdued for Ep4-6), and that he seems always to have envisioned the "past" where the Jedis fell from power etc, but never really made specific the storyline of that era. In fact, that's probably why the movies didn't come out until 1999 rather than much earlier as planned. He didn't know what he was doing or anything other than "It's about Darth Vader." He had a premise, not a plot. He didn't have a script, and what if anything he had penned down in 197x was almost certainly completely different from the resulting Ep1.

In light of Episode 1, Star Wars seems to be a work that succeeded thematically in spite of its creator. That is, until ep 1 came along, and "mitichlorian Force giving cell organelles" were introduced and the entire theme of Spirituality and Mysticism (good guys! Yoda!) vs Technology and Science (bad guys! Deathstar!) was fireballed by a scientific explanation for mysticism. Oops!

(Oh, additional; sorry to take up your valuable time with off topic post. Sorry! Thank you! Sorry! Bye! Bye! Sorry! Thank you! )

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Sic Semper Omnibus!

Quote

Originally posted by SD:
Furthermore, Episode 1 was horrible, and the battle droid command signal thing was a ridiculous contrivance by uninspired scriptwriters... that insults the audience with its inanity.

I don't see what's so unreasonable about it - it's not all that much different than the 'network computer' concept that was fashionable a few years ago, and would probably be much cheaper than giving each battle droid an independent electronic 'brain'.

However, Cafall, SD is right about the scripts - Lucas didn't actually write Episode I until he decided to make it.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in for the original Escape Velocity