As some of you may be aware, I am a graphics designer. I also read most of the topics on graphics programs, leading me to downloaded the Strata 3D demo... I can't figure out what's so great about it. I've always used Bryce 3 for EV graphics, and it has produced some very nice work. They aren't professional quality, but they can compete with a lot of the standard EV graphics....

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this, but I'm a bit confused about Strata... how to use it and all... and if I should just stick with B3 or try and utilize strata to its fullest (demo) extent?

Any ideas on what's good and what's not in the world of graphics...?

-Lequis
(sorry if this message was incredibly unclear)

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All your base are belong to us.

Quote

Originally posted by Lequis MX:
**As some of you may be aware, I am a graphics designer. I also read most of the topics on graphics programs, leading me to downloaded the Strata 3D demo... I can't figure out what's so great about it. I've always used Bryce 3 for EV graphics, and it has produced some very nice work. They aren't professional quality, but they can compete with a lot of the standard EV graphics....

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this, but I'm a bit confused about Strata... how to use it and all... and if I should just stick with B3 or try and utilize strata to its fullest (demo) extent?

Any ideas on what's good and what's not in the world of graphics...?

-Lequis
(sorry if this message was incredibly unclear)

**

I'm in same boat as you are, only my copy of Strata seems to have been damaged in the mail and would never open. I've tried a half-dozen shareware aps, I own and use Amorphium1.0, RDD 5.5, Poser3, I've demo'd Bryce4 and Poser4 and Amorphium2 and I have Amapi kicking around somewhere....

And, really, I keep coming back to Bryce3d. I build the models elsewhere, of course, but aligning, texturing, lighting, setting up animations, even the speed and fluidity of the interface is vastly more pleasurable in Bryce. RDD, particularly, runs like a bad PC port, drags a mouse like skipping a flat stone across a pond, and crashes on an almost predictable basis.

Bryce has limitations, of course. Lack of modelling tools, particularly. Also, it only does ray-tracing, and without much control over the parameters. Here's a couple things I can do in a Ray Dream animation I could never do in Bryce without lengthly work-arounds; particle effects (smoke trails), lense flares, spline animation (for more fluid organic movements), .mov textures (yes, you can have a texture that is itself an animation)...

Some people I hang out with sing songs in praise of Maya, Max, and Hash's Animation Master, and a couple other things in the $200 - $600 range. I'm planning myself to try the new, less-buggy Carrara and also upgrade to Poser4.

Um...in short, it is a hard question, and you are really the only one who can find a package of 3d applications you are happy with. If you can get involved in a class or school, you may be able to try out more variety of software including some of the expensive upper-end stuff. Plus, there's that academic discount -- not a small savings!

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

Strata is definatly worth it: see (url="http://"http://www.adventuredog.f2s.com/shipyard.html")here(/url)

That's not even all that great, just some of my work. The people who are really good can make stuff that is amazing. Unless you are an animator, Strata or Bryce ought to be fine, I would think. You can get a lesser version of Cinema 4d called GO for $200. I've only tried the demo for a little while.

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"There is enough life on earth to fill fifty planets.
Be prepared
for anything."
K-Pax

Quote

Originally posted by Evil Penguin:
**Strata is definatly worth it: see here

That's not even all that great, just some of my work. The people who are really good can make stuff that is amazing. Unless you are an animator, Strata or Bryce ought to be fine, I would think. You can get a lesser version of Cinema 4d called GO for $200. I've only tried the demo for a little while.

**

Or you can convince your art teacher to join cineversity and get XL for 200 (that's 90% off)

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/thorprime")NovaBurst Home(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by ThorPrime:
**Or you can convince your art teacher to join cineversity and get XL for 200
**

Or get it on academic discount for $300 (in Aus anyway, so that's $340NZ...)

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--sitharus
(url="http://"http://www.damnsw.net/~triplet/forums/")Carracho Help - Updated, upgraded and better!(/url)
(url="http://"mailto:sitharus@ureach.com")mailto:sitharus@ureach.com(/url)sitharus@ureach.com

The previous free version - still available - of Strata 3d was an absolute gem. The current offering is actually a downgrade with fewer features, although still very worth while given the price (free).

Comparing Strata 3d with programs you actually pay money for is not meaningful - you should rather be comparing Strata 3d pro, which is awesome software. However, not everyone is willing or able to pay for software for something which is basically a hobby. In that case, Strata free products are definitely worth it.

For sound (off topic) you can't beat Pro Tools Free, as a free program.

As far as other software is concerned:
Poser 4 is best for people
Bryce is best for landscapes
Photoshop is best for images
Illustrator or Freehand are best for Vector graphics
Pick your favourite flavour for generalised 3d software - but watch the budget and ask yourself the question 'how much is this really worth to me'.

Regards

Martin

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R

POV-Ray! (url="http://"http://www.povray.org/")http://www.povray.org/(/url)
It's free, and very, very nice (especially w/ metaballs). Just don't let the text-based interface discourage you; it's really fairly easy to use, especially after a bit of practice.

My site has some stuff that I made in POV-Ray: (url="http://"http://www.rit.edu/~jxc1906/")http://www.rit.edu/~jxc1906/(/url)
(note: the large scenic was Bryce work, though.)

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(Insert Signature Here)

You can download Strata (url="http://"http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10215-100-4024097.html?tag=st.dl.10005-103-1.lst-7-1.4024097")here(/url). It's 22 megs, requires the ability to connect (AOL uses can't do it), but is worth it! It's totally free, and there are millions of textures. It makes awesome pictures, and it's what Jules (aka Ewan) uses. He posted a turual a while ago...

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Visit my (url="http://"http://www.madman80513.vze.com")Website(/url) -Newly redone
THE PENGUINS! THE PENGUINS!

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**
For sound (off topic) you can't beat Pro Tools Free, as a free program...

**

I still have the CD for that. A little too powerful for my Sonnet-carded 8100, apparently. I still do most of my work in SoundEdit 16, although I just tried out Hyperprism and like it very much.

For that matter, I like the digital audio capabilities of Vision (SVP4.0) and I've even used it to score a quick-time animation, but the MusicShop interface is better at staying out of my way and allowing me to compose.

While I'm mentioning it (while I'm hijacking this thread, that is!) I could be interested in a snippet of music design for someone here. Samples are on my resume at (url="http://"http://home.earthlink.net/~nomuse/soundpages/soundex.html")http://home.earthlin...es/soundex.html(/url)

Um, back to the thread, I agree with Martin's choices. I just like to push Bryce because it is cheap, easy to learn, a good introduction to 3d and a useful tool (landscapes and ray-tracing) in the suite of any 3d designer. For ships, I wouldn't reach for it first. For all the elements of a TC, I would...uh, I am. Which doesn't mean I'm not nose-deep in my Ray Dream manual right now!

You did those animations in Poser3, Martin? (Hey, some of them did actually play. A noble experiment).

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

Uh, this brings up about a thousand new questions

First off, I've heard that Ray Dream is supposedly pretty good.... even though I'm not quite sure whether it still exists or not... And most of these aren't in my price range anyways, I'm just a poor 13 year old :frown:

And where are these other programs downloadable, e.g. this 'free' version of strata, this sound designer program, etc(even though it's not related, as previously stated)

Thanks again,
Lequis

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All your base are belong to us.

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**The previous free version - still available - of Strata 3d was an absolute gem. The current offering is actually a downgrade with fewer features, although still very worth while given the price (free).

For sound (off topic) you can't beat Pro Tools Free, as a free program.
**

What got me about Strata 3D 6 was the cheesy web feature ick. I should probably try the previous versions of Strata, but I'm content to stick with my obscure mid-90s modeler.

I have always used the shareware SoundEffects to do all in-game sound haxing, it's at least worth a try. The sound filters in PlayerPRO are also pretty nifty. PlayerPRO is what I have used most of the time in my unsuccessful attempts at music, but I think one could get much better tools for the value.

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If you can't hear me back there, raise your hand.

Quote

Originally posted by Lequis MX:
**Uh, this brings up about a thousand new questions:p

First off, I've heard that Ray Dream is supposedly pretty good.... even though I'm not quite sure whether it still exists or not... And most of these aren't in my price range anyways, I'm just a poor 13 year old :frown:

And where are these other programs downloadable, e.g. this 'free' version of strata, this sound designer program, etc(even though it's not related, as previously stated)

Thanks again,
Lequis

**

First off, type "Shareware" into Hotbot or your search engine of choice, and you will be drowned in URL's. I happen to like CNN (http://download.cnet...tml?tag=stbc.gp) for a first stop.

Ray "Nightmare"? On that program, my experience is not unique. I had learned 3d on Renderboy and some other shareware and "early early early" aps. I demo'd RD3d and on the strength of that bought RDD4, then 5.5 Since then I've demo'd or bought a half-dozen other aps. And I can say with certainty that Ray Dream's interface is...okay, let me settle for "ghastly." I've had an easier time working within ResEdit!

Okay, so Metacreations mushed RDD and Infini-D together to make Carrara, and stopped selling them. Then divested all their 3D softs leaving Carrara itself in limbo. Finally Eovia (http://www.eovia.com/carrara/index.htm) picked up Carrara, patched the godawful bugs and is offering Carrara Studio both as stand-alone and as upgrade for old Ray Dream and Infini-D users. It is said to have all the options of it's ancestors with a Kai-like (Bryce, KPT) interface.

The state of the art has advanced a bit since Carrara was first created, tho, and Strata, Cinema 3D, etc., etc., are generally more powerful for the same bucks.

Okay; I should admit that Ray Dream loses in the difficult-interface sweepstakes to Amapi. Even hardened Amapi users swear at that software. Still, Amapi is very cheap (there have been and will be in the future free downloads) and has some modelling tools Maya would hardly sniff at.

Where do you see yourself going with 3D, Lequis? Might I suggest you go down to Barnes and Nobel and see what's on the cover CD's of a few magazines? You could find a demo of something nice, or, as happens every now and then, a full-feature 3D application for the price of a magazine (that's where I got Poser3). And it's fun to read about the high-end aps, even if you can't afford them.

(ProTools can be found at (url="http://"http://www.digidesign.com")www.digidesign.com(/url) I think it may require OS 9. Check that URL I gave at the top for other options)

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

For a start, get your facts straight, there is no "demo" version of Strata 3D. There is however a free version...

Now I have got that straightened out, I will get on to the sales pitch Strata 3D, even in the free incarnation (the old free version, not the new one) is a powerful piece of software. For ship graphics, it is easily able to surpass Bryce 3 (see (url="http://"http://www.ewanc.f2s.com/kelan/destroyer.html")here(/url) for a simple example of what it is capable of). I wouldnt stop using Bryce though, it can be a very powerful tool for making landscapes and such like.

I personally have been using Strata 3D for about 2 years now and find it very easy to use and a powerful tool. I only use the free (as you called it "demo") version and have found it very useful in making ships and even landscapes with practice.

Hope this helps you in some way.

ewan

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may contain nuts

Well, I tried Carrara Studio 1.1 and it runs much smoother than Ray Dream -- and didn't crash once. But, really, $149 (the upgrade from Ray Dream) for what is for my purposes a bug fix?

Cinema4D GO is very attractive at $249, with NURBS and the beginnings of patch modelling -- I couldn't tell from the website if it had bones, tho. Cinema4D XL is much more powerful, and has a new plug-in package coming out with some of the nicest physics I've seen for a mere $500. Still, Maya and Max have been around longer and the physics models for Maya are pretty mature. Right. Why discuss multi-thousand packages here? Still, one can dream!

If you can get Strata to run, go for it (it doesn't seem to like my internet connection; hangs on registration).

Bryce is under competition in the landscape department. Not from Terregen. From MojoWorld. Still, I'm holding out for a true procedural terrain generator

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

Quote

Originally posted by Commander Arashi:
**I still have the CD for that. A little too powerful for my Sonnet-carded 8100, apparently. I still do most of my work in SoundEdit 16, although I just tried out Hyperprism and like it very much.

For that matter, I like the digital audio capabilities of Vision (SVP4.0) and I've even used it to score a quick-time animation, but the MusicShop interface is better at staying out of my way and allowing me to compose.

While I'm mentioning it (while I'm hijacking this thread, that is!) I could be interested in a snippet of music design for someone here. Samples are on my resume at http://home.earthlin...es/soundex.html

Um, back to the thread, I agree with Martin's choices. I just like to push Bryce because it is cheap, easy to learn, a good introduction to 3d and a useful tool (landscapes and ray-tracing) in the suite of any 3d designer. For ships, I wouldn't reach for it first. For all the elements of a TC, I would...uh, I am. Which doesn't mean I'm not nose-deep in my Ray Dream manual right now!

You did those animations in Poser3, Martin? (Hey, some of them did actually play. A noble experiment).

**

Yeah, I used Opcode Vision for a while, but then went on to ProTools Free and then finally Emagic Logic Platinum (not free!). ProTools full version is actually much better, but several times the price for the features (we're talking thousands of pounds or dollars).

The static figures were actually made in Poser 2, and at least one of the animations was made with Poser figures in StrataVision 5. When Poser 3 came out I moved up. When 4 appeared Metacreations sent me a copy for free, which was very kind of them. Poser 4 is very, very much better than 3 - in fact, more like the difference between Bryce 2 and 4.

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
The static figures were actually made in Poser 2, and at least one of the animations was made with Poser figures in StrataVision 5. When Poser 3 came out I moved up. When 4 appeared Metacreations sent me a copy for free, which was very kind of them. Poser 4 is very, very much better than 3 - in fact, more like the difference between Bryce 2 and 4.

Poser 4 is a very good program.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
(url="http://"http://inpar.dhs.org/mc.html")An Upcoming EV Override Mission Editor(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Madman80513:
**You can download Strata here. It's 22 megs, requires the ability to connect (AOL uses can't do it), but is worth it! It's totally free, and there are millions of textures. It makes awesome pictures, and it's what Jules (aka Ewan) uses. He posted a turual a while ago...

**

You know, MacAddict #27(nov 98) had full versions of both Strata3D 4.0 and Video Shop 3.0 on it. I think you can still order old issues and I think this magazine would be the one to get. (Besides the disk also has an old C4DXL demo plus the mag has a great artical on the original iMac. A classic issue for any collector.)

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/thorprime")NovaBurst Home(/url)