Ambrosia Garden Archive
    • Ambrosia Garden Archive

    • Kevin **Cough **Cough NR!

       EV Developer's Corner
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      March 8th, 2000

      "NR just went into beta, we hope to be done soon." and from you; "...done in about a months of beta testing...", and once again over the Deadline. If AJ had never showed me those pictures, I'd have deleted my NR bookmark one year ago and slapped a "vaporware" sticker on it.

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      Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

      Era, an huge plugin for EV: (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/rhysmctharin/erahome.html")www.geocities.com/rhysmctharin/erahome.html(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Cotton Mouse:
      **March 8th, 2000

      "NR just went into beta, we hope to be done soon." and from you; "...done in about a months of beta testing...", and once again over the Deadline. If AJ had never showed me those pictures, I'd have deleted my NR bookmark one year ago and slapped a "vaporware" sticker on it.

      **

      heh...

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      DeAdBoY-
      (url="http://"http://www.grybs.com/harzius")Harzius Productions(/url)
      (url="http://"http://www.IcedEarth.com")Iced Earth(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Cotton Mouse:
      **March 8th, 2000

      "NR just went into beta, we hope to be done soon." and from you; "...done in about a months of beta testing...", and once again over the Deadline. If AJ had never showed me those pictures, I'd have deleted my NR bookmark one year ago and slapped a "vaporware" sticker on it.

      **

      I think New Republic is one of those Greek tragedies. They keep pushing it up the hill, but it always falls down again just short of the top. It's been in beta, re-done, and back in beta again so many times, but I'm sure it'll be a damn good plug if it's ever finished.

      _bomb

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Bomb:
      **... I'm sure it'll be a damn good plug if it's ever finished.

      _bomb**

      You got that one right, Bomb.

      BTW - It's difficult to complete beta tests when your testers won't make reports 🙂

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Joseph Burnette:
      **You got that one right, Bomb.

      BTW - It's difficult to complete beta tests when your testers won't make reports :-)**

      beta testers suck... try asking the people on blazers board, they seem to be... well... not jerks. well, except SC and and Typhoon. sombody there might be able to test. shrug

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      DeAdBoY-
      (url="http://"http://www.grybs.com/harzius")Harzius Productions(/url)
      (url="http://"http://www.IcedEarth.com")Iced Earth(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Joseph Burnette:
      It's difficult to complete beta tests when your testers won't make reports 🙂

      This is why Meowx does all beta testing in-house. That, and BT goes about 7 million times faster. We just won't mention something called "Return". The BT Department doesn't like that word.
      😉
      -david-

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      (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com")Meowx Design Studios(/url)
      Graphics. Games. And more...

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      I agree with David, in-house beta is much quicker. When I was building Iron Fist, I considered releasing it to Beta, but I had to go to Arizona for about a month. I brought my laptop and programmed..... Nothing else to do in Arizona

      Well, when I got back, Iron Fist was so fit I decided to skip beta and release it in full (followed by a newer version a few days later). I'm glad I didn't put it to Beta, I'd probably still be working on it....

      Beta Testers suck. They only volunteer so they can get a copy of the plug early, not so they can help make a plugin. They never do any actual work except play it and complain loudly. However my next plugin, StarLance, a huge total converstion (still in concept, I have all the resources of Axis Software at my fingertips now....) will no doubt need a small army of testers....

      O well, I'm rambling. Shut up, Slug.

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      Give a man a match and he'll be warm for an hour... Set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
      -Polaris Confederate Recruitmant Theme
      StarLance

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Slug:
      **I agree with David, in-house beta is much quicker. When I was building Iron Fist, I considered releasing it to Beta, but I had to go to Arizona for about a month. I brought my laptop and programmed..... Nothing else to do in Arizona

      Well, when I got back, Iron Fist was so fit I decided to skip beta and release it in full (followed by a newer version a few days later). I'm glad I didn't put it to Beta, I'd probably still be working on it....

      Beta Testers suck. They only volunteer so they can get a copy of the plug early, not so they can help make a plugin. They never do any actual work except play it and complain loudly. However my next plugin, StarLance, a huge total converstion (still in concept, I have all the resources of Axis Software at my fingertips now....) will no doubt need a small army of testers....

      O well, I'm rambling. Shut up, Slug.

      **

      Why do you think you seed it to as many as possible a open beta is sometimes far superior for the task cause you'll have those dedicated few who want to see it suceed and are happy when they see there suggestions implemented.

      Its the long wait for updates that usually shoot beta testers off. I know in-house its edited, BOOM! Joe, try it out, wow, it works, ok, lets add this, BOOM! It works, ok Joe lets try this, CRASH! ok it's fix and BOOM! wow, it works...

      Nice and quick like a Fascist government leader giving orders.

      Seeding public betas and the like is like democracy, the people who care tell you what's wrong, and enjoy seeing their efforts rewarded, unfortunatly, it has to go through cabinent, supreme court if need be, etc than it needs to be implemented which takes resources, time effort, a new way of thinking sometimes. It takes a long time.

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      "Don't steal. The government hates competition."

      Star Trek Escape Velocity
      http://homepage.mac.com/startrekev/

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      Deletion of double post

      (This message has been edited by Metzen (edited 09-26-2000).)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Meowx Design:
      **This is why Meowx does all beta testing in-house. That, and BT goes about 7 million times faster. We just won't mention something called "Return". The BT Department doesn't like that word.
      😉
      -david-

      **

      Reign II, with over 80 missions and dozens of new systems and planets, had a grand total of one beta tester, the venerable EVOer Karrde. Or Ford. Whatever he's currently going by.
      Best tester I ever had... F-25 was a completely different story.

      _bomb

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      Re: finding good beta testers

      I think the best thing is to treat it like hiring employees. Ask potential beta testers to submit an application. Only distribute the beta to the cream of the crop: those who have tested plugins or software before (ask for references), those who have been playing EV since forever, those who know their way around ResEdit/Resorcerer and the EV(O) bibles. Ask them to submit a sample bug report, to judge their writing style and anal retentiveness (a good trait for a tester). Make some spelling errors in the request for testers, and see if they catch them. 🙂

      Heck, you will weed out the most lame simply because they won't want to take the time to write an application! (A good test for whether they will ever write up bugs.)

      (Self promotion)
      And if anyone needs a beta tester for a plug, just email iano@teleport.com.
      (/Self promotion)

      Ian Osgood

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      Of course a big part of the problem is that you are essentially asking people to do work for free.

      And, well, most people will have other motives, since they're not getting paid.

      It's like web pages. Most of the good ones are commercial, because if you're good at it, you're going to try to get paid for it!

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      When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I
      know it is wrong.
      - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983)

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      Well a plug that has been in development for that long either has a lot of bugs, or will be very damn good. Hopefully it is the latter as I was looking forward to playing it.

      On a completely unrealated EVO topic, where in Edmonton do you live Metzen? I live in Spruce Grove (like 20km west).

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      I swear your honour! He was like that when I found him
      Alex Hawkins**********

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      a beta-tester really needs to know something about plug development, they won't do their jobs well if they don't know.

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      Captain Orne
      AIM:CaptnG3
      ICQ:3116256
      Yahoo!:CaptainG3

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      In defence of Beta testers.
      It takes two to tango. It is up to the developer to respond to comments from the tester.
      when I was testing for Frandall he never failed to reply and was always encouraging and helpful.
      When I was running the former beta version of NR I got no response to my communications.
      So, gentlemen developers, remember you have a responsibility for courtesy if you want your beta testers to perform.
      Cheers
      Kevin Jordan

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