....help me make a ship!! Just one!!

I recently d/led Mechanisto, having finally been swayed by Kwanzar's (edit) seemingly unending praise of it and his cool ships, but from that point, I've been totally stumped. Okay. Not 'totally' stumped, but at least as it regards actually making ships. I can, for the most part, deal with its more intricate interface(compared to Infini-D's simpler one), and occassional snags, but I can't seem to(in either program) figure out how to make 'actual' ships in ship-shape.*

I guess that's my main question. How does one go from simple primitives(spheres, cubes, etc.) and such, to things like a mean multi-faceted-four-turret-super-duper-woopdeedoo ship? I cannot, for the life of me, and all of trying(I've had Infini-D for almost two years) figure out how it's done.
()Is it intuitive, and I'm simply to slow too see it?
()Is it mathematical, and I simply must memorize a bunch of numbers and fields?
()Is it time consuming, and I'm simply too impatient?(I would like a ship in at least 12 hours)
()Is it a dumb program, and I'm simply wasting my time?(Please let this one be 'no')
(*)And finally, is it some inside or well known(by developers) method, and I'm simple not 'in the know'?

These may seem like dumb questions. They are pretty dumb, but require answers. I really want to begin making plugs for EV3 when it's out, and I want to be well versed in the form before starting, thereaby allowing me to quickly(relatively, of course) make them and thus more of them. I would greatly appreciate any help. Really. So don't just sit there and look at the screen and say "Oooh look, a newbie!!" Post! <IMG SRC="http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/smile.gif" HEIGHT="15" WIDTH="15">

PS :frown:As if I haven't rambled enough) If any one would be willing to part with any files that can be opened in Mechanisto(the only one I can currently open them in), would you mind sending me one(or two ). Thanx.

• I meant that literally, case anyone cares

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

(This message has been edited by Q-Czar (edited 09-08-2000).)

Since I am the self proclaimed Mechanisto master...I guess I'll share a few secrets...=)
(*)Is it intuitive, and I'm simply to slow too see it? ***I't simple...=)
()Is it mathematical, and I simply must memorize a bunch of numbers and fields? *math is my worst subject...but this requires knowledge of x,y,z...etc...the usual grid stuff.
()Is it time consuming, and I'm simply too impatient?(I would like a ship in at least 12 hours) **** Not at all...I can make simple ships in less than 10 minutes...although rendering time may take a bit longer...
()Is it a dumb program, and I'm simply wasting my time?(Please let this one be 'no') **** Not a dumb program at all...It's rather excellent, underestimated, and fast...=)
()And finally, is it some inside or well known(by developers) method, and I'm simple not 'in the know'? ****It's called learn from experimenting...I taught myself damn near everything, then I learned even more from the guide....

Since you're a beginner...learn how to make transformation first. All of my ships' parts are made from primative boolean shapes and objects. It's nothing like free-form modelling. Sometimes...for one shape which may seem simple...it caln take as many as 6 shapes to make that one shape. Also, INSERT group. This is VERY important. Under the Object menu, then on insert...put in a group. This will be the base for your ship. Make part by part, drag into folder...on opposite window. Each time you add an object...it'll show up there. Drag it into the folder once you finalise it. Make transformations on simple shapes and stuff and create a cool looking part to use on a ship. Drag and drop basically...

Well...I know this isn't clear at all...but feel free to e-mail me and make a request for a ship file you can play with...

PEACE YO!

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~Kwanza~

"Quoted the Kwanza Man...nevermore"

AIM: Kwanzar26

Kwanzasoft Graphics
(url="http://"http://www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza")www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza(/url)

(This message has been edited by Kwanzar (edited 09-08-2000).)

Originally Posted By: Kwanzar

Quote

Well...I know this isn't clear at all...but feel free to e-mail me and make a request for a ship file you can play with...

I'd say it's pretty clear. And I don't think I can get anything clearer than from ' The Mechanisto Master™ '. I've always thought that I needed to be a little more vigilant when crafting the little pieces to make the big one. I'll try what you said.

As for the numeric fields, it seems that every time I enter something into them, nothing happens. :frown: None of the documentation I have tells you how to do this. I've tried using animation(or whatever) to do it, but nothing. A sphere is a sphere, is a sphere. Do you know how?

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

Quote

Originally posted by Q-Czar:
**Originally Posted By: Kwanzar
I'd say it's pretty clear. And I don't think I can get anything clearer than from ' The Mechanisto Master™ '. I've always thought that I needed to be a little more vigilant when crafting the little pieces to make the big one. I'll try what you said.

As for the numeric fields, it seems that every time I enter something into them, nothing happens. :frown: None of the documentation I have tells you how to do this. I've tried using animation(or whatever) to do it, but nothing. A sphere is a sphere, is a sphere. Do you know how?
**

If you're trying to transform a sphere...just turning it by an axis (A for example) won't do a thing...visually, cause it's a sphere...duh...=) Try the taper transformation. That'll smash the end and make it look pointy...open the transformation settings window. This is where ALL of the modifying will happen, or should happen. Click on the little pull down thing and find Taper, which you should have added to the object before you can actually edit it. Change the axis that gets tapered until you get something desired. NOTE: Placement of the transformations can effect the way it looks. Say, if you taper after the translate thingy (in the window...you'll see it), then when you move the object, you can get some ulgy results. Try it before or after other transformations till you get it in a working spot (more of an advanced thing). just experiment a bit with different transformations, under the object menu under insert transformation. Well...it might take a bit..=)

Anyways, go to my free shipyard and pick a ship from there...then i'll send you the file. Good luck...PEACE YO!

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~Kwanza~

"Quoted the Kwanza Man...nevermore"

AIM: Kwanzar26

Kwanzasoft Graphics
(url="http://"http://www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza")www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza(/url)

Well, I've started experimenting with those transform thingies, and have so far been suprised that I get it. I will be able to make 'parts' of ships and such, but a truly good ship is still somewhat down the road. It's really not that hard, but not easy. Compared with Infini-D, it's not all that different, in some ways better, but certainly not 'easy'.

Mechanisto right now is the one and only 3D program that's really practical for me to use. For many reasons:

Infini-D won't(of course) let me save.*
Photoshop 5.0 sucks at 3D
No OS 9, no Strata3D
A(don't laugh) 56.6K external(The Pod) modem (Hey, I said don't laugh! :D)
'Cus I'm not swimming in it(money).
Because Kwanzar said so
Just because...

If anyone is looking at that pathetic list(or has a similar list) and is saying, "Hey! That's not a problem. I got just what you need.", then by all means, give it to me.

Oh and Kwanzar , I got the ship pics(Naboo Fighter), now send me the damn files(...please).

*BTW, is it at all possible to save anything in Infini-D(Demo) a file from it. I have d/led(not related to EV/O) 3D files, and looked at them in the Finder and saw that it said "Infini-D/Demo document"(edit), but I can't open it in the program. Am I missing something, or just seeing things.

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

Q-Czar - A member of RA. Ramblers Anonymous

(This message has been edited by Q-Czar (edited 09-08-2000).)

the "infini-d/demo document" means that it is a document which will be opened by the app infini-d/demo. all the stuff in get info tells you is which app finder has assigned to open it (which, thanks to netscape, is sometimes an app not on your computer). btw, if there's anyone who knows how to change a document's default viewer w/o converting the file that'd help a lot. but anyway, back to answering the question. i think the infini-d demo can only save the pics it renders (and i think i remember there being some limit on the number of renderings it can make, but it's been a while since i last had the demo). infini-d is a lot more powerful in what it can do, but i generally prefer mechanisto b/c it has a numeric input which allows for better control (i.e. you can't say exactly how big something is or exactly where it is in infini-d, you can only eyeball it and hope that nobody notices that your ship's lopsided). i would love it if infini-d had an option to activate a numeric input to suppliment the drag and drop, but that'd probably mean they'd make it a new release and i can't afford to fork over another $400. naja, i've digressed far enough that even i realize this should end. to summarize: mechanisto's probably your best bet and it seems you're learning it so have fun

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if tin whistles are made of tin, what's a fog horn made of?

Originally Posted By: **nighthawk **:

Quote

to summarize: mechanisto's probably your best bet and it seems you're learning it so have fun

Mechanisto is not my best bet. It's my only bet.

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(b)"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-"**, MyMac

(b)Q-Czar** - A member of RA. Ramblers Anonymous

Quote

Originally posted by nighthawk:
**infini-d is a lot more powerful in what it can do, but i generally prefer mechanisto b/c it has a numeric input which allows for better control (i.e. you can't say exactly how big something is or exactly where it is in infini-d, you can only eyeball it and hope that nobody notices that your ship's lopsided).

**

actually, you can do that in Infini-D. On the menu on the left of the modeling area... where the texturing, etc.. .are, theres a place for for numeric placement, sizing, etc...

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DeAdBoY-
(url="http://"http://www.grybs.com/harzius")Harzius Productions(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.IcedEarth.com")Iced Earth(/url)

Two words, fellow ship designers: Strata Vision3D
The current version is freeware too!

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I do not suffer from insanity
I enjoy every minute of it

-Cantharan Commodore za'Grom
After the capture of Earth

Well, here it is. My first ship made in Mechanisto. It's kinda rough around the edges( very rough around the edges ) and is sorta plain looking, but it is my ' first ' ship. It took hours(of mostly trial and error, not actual creation). But that's okay though, 'cus now at least I know I'm up to it. I was even able to make Photoshop useful, making the textures(which suck) there. I could've make better ones, but I was kinda rushing.

Thanks again Kwanzar. The file you sent was far more helpful than anything you said, not that what you said wasn't helpful. Actually seeing another ship there, with all the wireframes, tranformations and such really brought it into perspective. I'm a long way, however, from the Starship Enterprise or whatever, but I'll get there(hopefully before EV3 comes out). Anyway, thanks.

BTW, I'm not sure if the picture will be here. I saw that Defient pic and figured I could post mine. But I, of course, have read the little "don't use image tag" notice. Sometimes, being a newbie sucks.

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

Q-Czar - A member of RA. Ramblers Anonymous

Quote

Originally posted by Q-Czar:
**Well, here it is. My first ship made in Mechanisto. It's kinda rough around the edges( very rough around the edges ) and is sorta plain looking, but it is my ' first ' ship. It took hours(of mostly trial and error, not actual creation). But that's okay though, 'cus now at least I know I'm up to it. I was even able to make Photoshop useful, making the textures(which suck) there. I could've make better ones, but I was kinda rushing.

Thanks again Kwanzar. The file you sent was far more helpful than anything you said, not that what you said wasn't helpful. Actually seeing another ship there, with all the wireframes, tranformations and such really brought it into perspective. I'm a long way, however, from the Starship Enterprise or whatever, but I'll get there(hopefully before EV3 comes out). Anyway, thanks.

BTW, I'm not sure if the picture will be here. I saw that Defient pic and figured I could post mine. But I, of course, have read the little "don't use image tag" notice. Sometimes, being a newbie sucks.
**

Glad I could help...=) My first ship sucked wayy worse than that, so you're off on a good start...=) PEACE YO!

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~Kwanza~

"Quoted the Kwanza Man...nevermore"

AIM: Kwanzar26

Kwanzasoft Graphics
(url="http://"http://www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza")www.crosswinds.net/~kwanza(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Slug:
**Two words, fellow ship designers: Strata Vision3D
The current version is freeware too!

**

The mans right, Strata is probably the best tool to sue if your strapped for cash. I got it of a Macformat CD so I didn't even have to downloaded it.

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Hip Hop Recomendation of the week: People Under the Stairs - The Next Step

(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&forum;=*EV/EVO+chronicles&DaysPrune;=25&article;=000024&startpoint;=")The Tides of War(/url)

Oh, and Q-Czar, well done, that is a nice ship.

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Hip Hop Recomendation of the week: People Under the Stairs - The Next Step

(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&forum;=*EV/EVO+chronicles&DaysPrune;=25&article;=000024&startpoint;=")The Tides of War(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by: The Necromicon
The mans right, Strata is probably the best tool to sue if your strapped for cash. I got it of a Macformat CD so I didn't even
have to downloaded it.

Oh yeah. Where can I get this Macformat CD? Can I get it? And did you have to use it with OS 9, 'cus I only have OS 8? (I'll get OS 9 sometime in the next 2 weeks, but I don't wanna wait until then)

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

Q-Czar - A member of RA. Ramblers Anonymous

(This message has been edited by Q-Czar (edited 09-10-2000).)

You can get it off of one of the more recent MacAddict CDs as well, or download from (url="http://"http://www.3d.com")www.3d.com(/url). It's around 25MB, however.

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"Apple does not recommend allowing an elephant to operate a Mac in any environment."

Again I ask, where can I get these magical CD's? Are they free? Do you have to subscribe to something? Do you have it? How did you get it? I know I ask too many questions, but if Strata3D is so good, then I'll need all the answers.

I will not be d/ling 25MB of anything. The last time I did that(or tried), the damned modem time out every 5 minutes after the first 8 megs. Ya don't gotta say it, I know I need a better modem. :frown:

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"Sorry, a system error
occurred.
"Finder"
bus error
-restart-", MyMac

Q-Czar - A member of RA. Ramblers Anonymous

MacAddict is a magazine, yes. You can subscribe at (url="http://"http://www.macaddict.com")www.macaddict.com(/url), and I know there is a way to get back issues somehow.

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"Apple does not recommend allowing an elephant to operate a Mac in any environment."