Can I just butt in here and say that the boys and I are huge fans of yours, Mr. Cartwright?

Dave @ ATMOS

@guy, on Dec 24 2006, 06:13 AM, said in EVO Questions:

Well the Lazira is the last (second to last?) ship resource, if that implies anything...

That it was the last ship added and so plays almost no role in my memories of the game.

Quote

Oh, one other thing I meant to ask: Is that Alliance Cruiser model one of the extras included in the original Infini-D models package on the addons page?

Yes, I think the UE version (red fins, purple ports, old surface) is in there.

@pipeline, on Dec 24 2006, 11:18 AM, said in EVO Questions:

Can I just butt in here and say that the boys and I are huge fans of yours, Mr. Cartwright?

Thank you. I would also say that - while I haven't played Nova that much (just the Vell-oss plot of the big plot-lines) - I was always very impressed by the number of new features added and exploited in it. I think if I'd had so many new features available (mineable asteroids, wormholes, sub-munitioning weapons, ionisation ) that Override still wouldn't be finished today! And the graphics work really does leave us older EVs in the shade!

Speaking of which, I'm now flying a Crescent Warship whose rear crystals glow (just a little) when it accelerates. Before long, Azdaras may actually start flapping their wings I'm not sure just how many Nova features to exploit in what I'm working on. There are some it would be crazy not to take advantage of, but at the same time I want the universe to still look familiar to the player (if a weapon they know well suddenly starts behaving quite differently, they might not appreciate it). I'm still working out a policy. Probably, everything retained from Override will remain as is/was (with subtle additions like the glowing crystals for weapons/engines), but things which are new anyway may use the Nova engine's features to a greater extent.

I only just started playing ARPIA 2 yesterday and then I read Cartwright's post! Now I'm anxiously waiting for that!

Oh well. Can't wait to see some of that applied, Mr. Cartwright. Good luck, sir!

@pac, on Dec 25 2006, 04:53 AM, said in EVO Questions:

Thank you. I would also say that - while I haven't played Nova that much (just the Vell-oss plot of the big plot-lines) - I was always very impressed by the number of new features added and exploited in it.

The Vell-os story is my least favorite -- too constrained, too linear.

For my money, try Auroran, Wild Geese, or Pirate. Bounty Hunter, Polaris, Sigma, or Rebel are also good. I'm personally not a huge fan of the Federation storyline because I dislike being the bad guys, but I love Cookie's work on it.

@pipeline, on Dec 24 2006, 02:30 PM, said in EVO Questions:

The Vell-os story is my least favorite -- too constrained, too linear.

For my money, try Auroran, Wild Geese, or Pirate. Bounty Hunter, Polaris, Sigma, or Rebel are also good. I'm personally not a huge fan of the Federation storyline because I dislike being the bad guys, but I love Cookie's work on it.

Agreed. In order, from most to least favorite, my storylines are:

Polaris (what can I say? I love the powerful weapons! :laugh: )
Auroran (Thunderforge owns. End of story.)
Pirate (The Unrelenting is probably the one ship that you have the most freedom with. Only one of the Aur. Carrier Variants has even nearly as much space as Unrelenting does, but unless you're in the Auroran Storyline, you have to anger the Aurorans a little.)
Rebel (There isn't a whole lot worth mentioning here. The ships you get are okay, but you can do better.)
Vell-os (Too strict, and you can't capture anything. Also a lot of bad stuff happens before you're able to redeem yourself.)

Notice that I didn't include Feds? That's 'cause I'll never work for the Bureau. Krane and the rest of her cronies can kiss my pink, hairless...well, you figure it out.

Just my input.

@warlord-mike, on Dec 24 2006, 01:48 PM, said in EVO Questions:

I only just started playing ARPIA 2 yesterday and then I read Cartwright's post! Now I'm anxiously waiting for that!

Oh well. Can't wait to see some of that applied, Mr. Cartwright. Good luck, sir!

It won't be ready for a while. Don't hold your breath

@pac: You should probably play the auroran line. Its simple enough to get into.

Quote

Location: Bar
Random: 30%
Legal Record: 0
Combat Rating: 200

This post has been edited by LNSU : 24 December 2006 - 09:15 PM

**Let me just say first off Peter I'm absolutely thrilled you came onboard here; reading this topic and gaining all this insight into the origins of the EVO universe has really brought back the whole experience of playing the game for me. Way back when I was still developing for the scenario knowing all of this information would have been so valuable to me, yet even now I'm still hanging on every word. It even makes me think about the things that I wrote for my own scenarios that added on to yours and was thinking about the changes I would have made.

I'll admit I had a moment of artistic panic there, too, when you made no secret that your intentions were never to have the Voinians win; my main two contributions to the development community were Reign of the Voinians and its sequel, and judging by the title I'm sure you can readily assume what the two are about.

Reading through what you wrote though, something really struck me and it occurs to me now that maybe at its heart, the strength of EVO is that you present so much and yet so little; seeing all of this information now makes some things make more sense (and some less ) and I think this a lesson any developer working today with any of the various engines could learn from. (myself included, I'm a bit embarassed to even have you play through any of my work, seeing now the level of involvement and development you had with the scenario)

A few questions I always had;

1. My other major work was two separate versions of a plug-in called F-25. Small connecting missions with the Miranu and UEs aside, it is a misnomer to call it an add-on plug-in to the EVO universe; rather instead it goes on the premise that the little world inside the nebula that you discover that contains a gateway to a separate galaxy, etc, etc. Now I really can't recall why it was that I struck onto that particular string, but the exploration bit always intrigued me and I tried to make it the central theme of the plug-in, to varying degrees of success. My question is, did you ever have plans for further galatic exploration in any of the other obscure corners of the galaxy, or as others have mentioned, beyond the crescent?

2. We've debated endlessly the possible real-world parallels between EVO and the real world. Some say the Cold War, some say other things. Anything to all of that talk?

3. I think someone once quoted you, or perhaps you yourself said that the Voinians were more of bureaucrats than blood thirsty warriors or conquerors. That always intrigued me. Why then, given what you've said about the United Earth government being essentially a navy built by disparate and ultimately loosely allied worlds is it an inevitable outcome that they would win? If the Voinians are to be perceived as slow and bulky but yet also organized and efficient whereas the UEs operate in almost scattershot fashion, doesn't it stretch plausibility to say that technological advances that on the game level are rather slight would so heavily tip the scales in the UE's favor? Obviously, it is your scenario and you can do whatever you like, but I'm curious as to why you chose that as to how events would flow. Certainly internal fragmentation from the Hinwar and Emalgha (and perhaps others) could help to explain their inherent weakness, but the same could be said for the United Earth goverment, based on what happened at Huron.

4. The ship resource restrictions are well documented in EVO. When I was doing F-25 I found them so crippling I had to in fact eliminate the Voinian ships and mock up a hokey explanation for their space being cut off from UE access. Given that I'm sure there was the consideration of leaving room for plug-in developers, what ships did you have to eliminate? Already we've seen the Alliance Battlecruiser and mentions of the Fury and Banshee vessels, in addition to the Council vessel; but did you have more ambitious plans for the various species in the game, in particular, the Strands?

Thats all I can remember for now, I wasn't aware of this thread until just the other day and I've since read through it, well, not to use the seasonal cliche, but like a little kid on Christmas. It's just fascinating stuff to finally get information from the source about storylines and aspects of the scenario that we've spent so much time debating and talking about.

I hope you decide to stick around and even pursue the projects you've mentioned. As long as the endless barrage of questions doesn't chase you away again.

_bomb

**

Quote

Let me just say first off Peter I'm absolutely thrilled you came onboard here; reading this topic and gaining all this insight into the origins of the EVO universe has really brought back the whole experience of playing the game for me.

I have to agree. I thought these boards were dead for sure, but I've learned so much more about EVO in the past couple of days than over several years of haunting the EVO forum.

If you ever want anyone to help out...you probably have plenty of hands already, but here's one more willing soul :).

Um, how did UE Research... get moved to the validating group? He's a member.

edit: and I'll sign on to the project that has yet to be oficially annonced as being built.

This post has been edited by LNSU : 25 December 2006 - 06:55 PM

@bomb, on Dec 25 2006, 03:46 AM, said in EVO Questions:

I'll admit I had a moment of artistic panic there, too, when you made no secret that your intentions were never to have the Voinians win; my main two contributions to the development community were Reign of the Voinians and its sequel, and judging by the title I'm sure you can readily assume what the two are about.

Yes, I certainly know the name. But just because it was never my plan for it to happen doesn't mean I'm not delighted to see another developer work on the possibility. Another reason so many things were left unresolved in Override was to leave plug-in makers plenty of room for manoeuvre. My ideas for 'what happens next' count for nothing beside anything that someone has actually made!

Quote

1. My other major work was two separate versions of a plug-in called F-25. Small connecting missions with the Miranu and UEs aside, it is a misnomer to call it an add-on plug-in to the EVO universe; rather instead it goes on the premise that the little world inside the nebula that you discover that contains a gateway to a separate galaxy, etc, etc. Now I really can't recall why it was that I struck onto that particular string, but the exploration bit always intrigued me and I tried to make it the central theme of the plug-in, to varying degrees of success. My question is, did you ever have plans for further galatic exploration in any of the other obscure corners of the galaxy, or as others have mentioned, beyond the crescent?

Probably not much further exploration, but, yes, there is a very good reason why the nebula missions are one of the central objectives in Override. (And to say more would be a spoiler.)

Quote

2. We've debated endlessly the possible real-world parallels between EVO and the real world. Some say the Cold War, some say other things. Anything to all of that talk?

I don't think there are any direct allegories (though that, in the end, is up to the reader). I would say the main theme - as in almost all space opera - is imperialism: whether the ruthless sort of the Voinians, with slavery and revolts and reprisals, and the need to cling to a failing system as it is the only one protecting you from the revenge of the oppressed; or that seen in the relationship between Earth and its more remote colonies, which retain a lot of its values, but whose strategic interests just come to differ anyway; or the more modern 'commercial imperialism' of Stellar Corp (of which we might see more in the future).

Quote

3. I think someone once quoted you, or perhaps you yourself said that the Voinians were more of bureaucrats than blood thirsty warriors or conquerors. That always intrigued me. Why then, given what you've said about the United Earth government being essentially a navy built by disparate and ultimately loosely allied worlds is it an inevitable outcome that they would win? If the Voinians are to be perceived as slow and bulky but yet also organized and efficient whereas the UEs operate in almost scattershot fashion, doesn't it stretch plausibility to say that technological advances that on the game level are rather slight would so heavily tip the scales in the UE's favor? Obviously, it is your scenario and you can do whatever you like, but I'm curious as to why you chose that as to how events would flow. Certainly internal fragmentation from the Hinwar and Emalgha (and perhaps others) could help to explain their inherent weakness, but the same could be said for the United Earth goverment, based on what happened at Huron.

I think that's an apt description of the Voinians (whether I said it or not), but I'm not sure I'd consider them 'efficient'. It's probably a word they'd use a lot, but that doesn't mean they live up to it. Partly because of the similarity of the names, I often had Douglas Adams's Vogons in mind when writing the Voinians, and a Vogon, as we know, 'wouldn't even lift a finger to save his own grandmother from the Ravenous Bloodblatter Beast of Traal, without a form, signed in triplicate ' (and so on).

Also, the United Earth government isn't really based around 'loosely allied worlds' but just one world - Earth itself. It has always been difficult to reflect the relative importance of worlds in the EV engine, but Earth in this period still is home to more humans than all the colony worlds put together. Something like 90% of human industry is in the Sol system. So the secession of Huron just isn't that important - yes, Huron is the largest colony out there, and would contribute more than any other world, but it also demands a lot of resources for its own defence. Its net contribution is/was positive, but small, and easily written off.

The main advantage that the UE fleet has is not a technological one, but an operational one. UE commanders are able to act on their own initiative - quickly - to turn an opportunity into a victory. The same is not true on the Voinian side. Take a Voinian equivalent of d'Erlon, who (somehow) hears about the Huron 'rebellion' and wants to exploit it by opening an offensive. He can't - he's got to wait for approval from High Command (which could take who knows how long!). By the time he gets it (if he gets it) the window is closed. Were d'Erlon that restricted, the Hinwar would have risen, been massacred, and the Voinian fleet been back at its posts before the humans had even moved.

While all of the above is true, the driving reason why the Voinians have to lose is simply that they are the 'evil aliens', while the humans are us. I know which side the average player is likely to have more sympathy with! So the flaws of the Voinians have to be built in from the very beginning so that they can be all of: dangerous enough to be a threat to Earth; evil enough to be dislikable; and flawed enough to be beatable.

I suppose the story could have been quite different, with Earth attacked and humans fleeing as refugees across the galaxy - but that would be Titan AE or Battlestar Galactica, and I stole different plots!

Quote

4. The ship resource restrictions are well documented in EVO. When I was doing F-25 I found them so crippling I had to in fact eliminate the Voinian ships and mock up a hokey explanation for their space being cut off from UE access. Given that I'm sure there was the consideration of leaving room for plug-in developers, what ships did you have to eliminate? Already we've seen the Alliance Battlecruiser and mentions of the Fury and Banshee vessels, in addition to the Council vessel; but did you have more ambitious plans for the various species in the game, in particular, the Strands?

Yes, 64 ship classes isn't many to play with, is it? I was constrained by the need to have a distinctive ship set for each of four major cultures (humans, Miranu, Voinians, Crescent), including a number of ships specific to certain factions within some of those cultures. Then there was a need for a few special ships using the same graphics as another (enhanced this, modified that) for certain plot-lines, and then I had to leave (a little!) room for plug-in developers.

But I didn't have to leave anything out. None of the new Council or Alliance ships were ever planned to feature in Override. In fact, very late on, two ships (the Cargo Transporter and Lazira) were added. If I still had to abide by the old engine's restrictions, I might have to make some difficult decisions as to which to leave out in this sequel, but with the Nova engine's resources to work with, I can even leave a few completely outdated ones in as 'curiosities'.

I don't think I got round to replying to these:

@david-arthur, on Dec 23 2006, 04:08 PM, said in EVO Questions:

We hear various rumblings about Stellar Corp in the game, but is there anything genuinely dodgy about them, or are they just one of those faceless corporations that nobody likes much?

They are a very big corporation - 99% of it could be completely above board, and there could still be a department in there which goes about things in a more underhand way. Unfortunately, they didn't get much of a plot in Override - but this may yet be put right in the future!

Quote

How pervasive is the United Earth government - do they run many or all aspects of administration, or are they concerned only with matters of interstellar import, with everything else being a local responsibility? For that matter, how cohesive is it? Could they hold together in peacetime, or is it only the constant threat of war that preserves their common interests?

Internally to Earth, the UE government doesn't play that large a role. It is doing little to - for example - harmonise (to use the EU terminology) national legislation, or promote free trade or freedom of movement. Those things are slowly happening, but national governments are jealous of what power they have left. As one example, one news story notes that Earth (unlike the rest of the galaxy ) doesn't even have a common currency.

So, if you are a citizen of one of the nations of Earth (who has never left Earth), the UE would not play an especially large role in your experience of life - except in that they took a lot of your taxes to build warships, that is. But if you are a colonist, things are rather different. You don't (in the unreformed period of Override, at least) get direct representation in the UE parliament. Even your local elected officials can be overruled (in 'emergencies', and emergencies are happening whenever they say they're happening) by the UE-appointed governor and his/her officials. And the navy is a lot more heavy-handed about requisitioning whatever they need than they would ever be on Earth itself.

All of these things - along with the fact that UE priorities are Earth priorities - lead a large proportion of the people of Huron deciding they'd be better off without it. Something that Gribn/Thehir, New Alcatraz (and others) had decided even earlier.

Other colony worlds are much more closely tied to Earth. For example, Paaren is inhabited mainly by the very rich who want (and can afford) a home away from Earth - but they still consider themselves citizens of Earth, and think of Earth as their home. Other UE worlds are equally dependent on Earth for their function (or their identity) in one way or another. And of course for their protection.

What would happen if there were peace (although there's little danger of it!)? Well, the interests of all the nations of Earth would still be tied together, I think, as one planet - however important - in a very large galaxy. But more and more colonies might seek to cut their ties to it - at least until/unless the system of representation was considerably reformed.

@guy, on Dec 23 2006, 02:00 AM, said in EVO Questions:

Actually, IIRC, there is a problem with that mission: The fail text never shows so it leaves the player wondering a little what actually happened. This is caused by the very odd behaviour of fail texts only working if the mission is non-abortable. Strange, because I'm sure I remember it working properly the very first time I played it but have never had it working again, despite finding a copy of v1.0.0 too :huh:

It definitely works if you have enough escorts that taking off from the moon makes more than one day pass. Time expires on the mission, a failure message hits the screen, if you look at your mission status the Stop Zidagar Photographer line has a bullet in front of it, and when you land again you get the fail text. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. I also remember that if you have no escorts and take off so only one day passes, the mission doesn't fail until you jump out or land somewhere.

@warlord-mike, on Dec 24 2006, 05:46 PM, said in EVO Questions:

Vell-os <snip> you can't capture anything.

False.

PAC: Was there anything specific about Saalia that made it impossible to make equivalent brandy elsewhere?

@qaanol, on Dec 26 2006, 09:45 AM, said in EVO Questions:

False.

I'm talking in terms of the Stock Scenario, no plugs or anything. Yes, there IS a plug that makes it possible for you to capture ships as a Vell-os, but you can't do it in the Stock Scenario.

Unless I'm mistaken, which I am pretty sure I am not.

@qaanol, on Dec 26 2006, 05:45 PM, said in EVO Questions:

PAC: Was there anything specific about Saalia that made it impossible to make equivalent brandy elsewhere?

Every famous drink (and many foods) in the world is associated with a particular region. You can make sparkling wine outside Champagne, with the same grapes and process, but it still isn't champagne. It might even be better (it's certainly cheaper!) than the original - but it still isn't champagne! I'm sure someone somewhere is making Saalian-like brandy, but people will still pay a premium for the real thing.

@qaanol, on Dec 27 2006, 06:45 AM, said in EVO Questions:

It definitely works if you have enough escorts that taking off from the moon makes more than one day pass. Time expires on the mission, a failure message hits the screen, if you look at your mission status the Stop Zidagar Photographer line has a bullet in front of it, and when you land again you get the fail text. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. I also remember that if you have no escorts and take off so only one day passes, the mission doesn't fail until you jump out or land somewhere.

Indeed, I just looked at the data and it appears I was mistaken. The CanAbort flag is not set so the FailText will show as intended. There is the time-limit thing making it very easy not to fail which may make it difficult to get past that point if you don't know you're supposed to fail it, though you can also spend two days on the planet by buying or selling stuff.
There are two other missions with fail texts where the CanAbort flag is set and so will never been seen, which may have been what I thinking of. Or it may have just been the annoyance of the whole CanAbort/FailText behaviour that got me all muddled up about what works and what doesn't :rolleyes:

I've started a project thread next door.

How does the Council maintain its numbers over 10,000 years? Is it solely a matter of whether your parents were Council agents, or does the Council actively seek new members, or what? How could it possibly remain secret? All you need is one guy deciding to spill the beans....

And the Council fleet...

@qaanol, on Dec 27 2006, 05:35 PM, said in EVO Questions:

How does the Council maintain its numbers over 10,000 years? Is it solely a matter of whether your parents were Council agents, or does the Council actively seek new members, or what? How could it possibly remain secret? All you need is one guy deciding to spill the beans....

Probably, lots of people in the Strands have found out about the Council's grand plan at one time or another. But who can you trust with it once you know? The Council are well-positioned to discredit or kill anyone who tries to reveal everything.

Besides, whose interests would it be in to reveal 'the truth'? The original reason that the Strands hate each other might be because of the Council's machinations, but that doesn't change the fact that they do hate each other now. So if you want to reveal that it's all been a big mistake, it's not just the Council that will want to stop you, but everyone in power in the Strands who is committed to the war.

What various people have done from time to time, is realised that the Council is hearing about their plans, and leaking them to the enemy. They've tried - and sometimes succeeded - in keeping things more secret, and achieving more successes. The destruction of the Azdgari homeworld would be an example of something the Council would have stopped if they'd been able to (instead they could only give enough warning that the Azdgari left). But until the arrival of plentiful human agents who didn't know a thing about the Council, it was almost impossible to get anything significant done in the war.

Quote

And the Council fleet...

Suspension of disbelief.

Er, I mean … the Gadzair system is treated as off-limits by the Strands (hardly any ships show up in the system, and then just independent traders). So there's no one to see what they might be up to. The raw materials to build the fleet are plentiful - the planet itself. And engineers and crews were brought in in tiny numbers at a time over centuries. Gadzair is only uninhabited on the surface - like Magrathea, everything interesting is going on inside! By the time of Override, it must have a population of many millions.

This post has been edited by pac : 27 December 2006 - 01:36 PM

Heh, I've always been struck by more than a few B5/EVO parallels myself, the racial stuff anyway.

I guess I was always most interested in the fates of the minor races (Hinwar, etc) in EVO than the others, and I'm hoping that there fates are more fuly explored - also hoping that a new race or two might make the scene.

In any case, of the three EV games, it's still the one I think about most, for some reason. Vast, is the word that comes to mind.