Quote
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
**Probably that works for a game, but not in reality. Havent you thought of the massive outcry before the Iraq war began?
**
I happened to be talking about a game, don't let's start talking about Iraq, for gods sake.
--gav
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Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**I happened to be talking about a game, don't let's start talking about Iraq, for gods sake.
--gav
**
I agree somewhat with Cade. After all, EVO's missions are based in reality- they don't go all that far beyond acceptable scientific lines. People can't fly or shoot laser beams from their eyes, etc. The UE missions themselves deal with internal struggle (The independance of Huron) which is very much a current and human issue. Now granted, there is a huge difference between EVO and Iraq..
_bomb
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I think that you don't see many love stories in EV simply because the engine isn't quite geared towards that. What are you going to do, keep meeting your significant other in a bar (or, with Nova, the Outfitter, Shipyard, or Trade Center) and have questions like "Will you go out on a date with me?" | Yes/No | "Great, pick me up on <DST> in a month and we'll have dinner."?
-EVula
Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**I never meant to say that there was 'only' one mission, I just meant only one story involving it.
Plus, who needs a valid reason for war? The Igadzra might capture a UE destroyer, and kill a Zidagar leader with it. This would start a war and allow the Igadzra to gain power, but the player wouldn't know that until the end... mwuhaha...
--gav
**
Great idea but now youve given it away damn you!
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Insanity has its advantages
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Originally posted by Bomb:
**I agree somewhat with Cade. After all, EVO's missions are based in reality- they don't go all that far beyond acceptable scientific lines. People can't fly or shoot laser beams from their eyes, etc. The UE missions themselves deal with internal struggle (The independance of Huron) which is very much a current and human issue. Now granted, there is a huge difference between EVO and Iraq..
_bomb
**
Thanks for backing me up, Bomb! Thats what I have tried to say- that EVO is based on reality. There is no ridiculousness- people cant shoot laser beams from their eyes (that would be paranormal!). Yeah, if you mean civil war. There is a large difference between EVO and Iraq. I dont expect it to be completely realistic- otherwise there was no spaceships for military purposes or even interstellar travel, but it has to be reasonable.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Quote
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
**It may not make sense, but I guess Peter Cartwright designed Miranu to be peaceful ... The Zachit are too strong, too unified to be won...
**
Hmm if I remember, the Zachit was originally created by the Miranu specifically to handle the ST renegades so the Miranu could concentrate on trades in the Crescent part of the galaxy. That is why you don´t see warships with the word Miranu on their transponder, just only fighters who are most likely militia sqadrons. Also, the Miranu are not the only ones with the renegade problems, the strand race hates them too, some of them even join the Zacha race, which explains the diversity within this organization.
So if any major battles are fought for the Miranu, they´re done by the Zachits themselves.
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Nosumus Fortiolis Quad Volimus
I'm the only guy in the universe that can make horses laugh and cry.
(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/ddstation")DryDock Station(/url), the future site of Coraxus's stuff.
Quote
Originally posted by Bomb:
I agree somewhat with Cade. After all, EVO's missions are based in reality- they don't go all that far beyond acceptable scientific lines. People can't fly or shoot laser beams from their eyes, etc. The UE missions themselves deal with internal struggle (The independance of Huron) which is very much a current and human issue. Now granted, there is a huge difference between EVO and Iraq..
_bomb
It is realistic enough to set up an assassination and start a war. I'm sure it has happened before, somewhere along the line of history, but even if it hasn't, you can still put it in a game. Loads of conspiracy games have similar storylines, remember that this is all for fun: if starting a war between the Miranu and Azdgari means bending the rules a little, I don't see why it shouldn't be done. If I ever get round to finishing what I've got at the moment, I'll dedicate my efforts to make a plug-in where two otherwise non-connected civilizations have a war.
In the intro text, it mentions how the Voinian ships just "came out of nowhere" (although in prettier language), and even though a hundred year long war with a race of alien despots seems perfectly justified by an event with no reason to it at all, people just can't see anyone having a war except for the rigid hatreds set into EVO. The Igadzra might want to expand, and seeing human space as a weak spot in the galaxy, could plan to invade. I mean, why not? The Voinians did it.
--gav
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(This message has been edited by pistgavin (edited 05-09-2003).)
Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**remember that this is all for fun: if starting a war between the Miranu and Azdgari means bending the rules a little, I don't see why it shouldn't be done.
The Igadzra might want to expand, and seeing human space as a weak spot in the galaxy, could plan to invade. I mean, why not? The Voinians did it.
**
No. The Miranu have absolutely no military. If the Gunship was used, I doubt it would be enough. Even if Crescent Warships put to use, they could still have problems. I bitterly learnt that in the Igadzra hunt mission, where you are swarmed by 6 Azdaras. Unless you give Miranu a new supership (heavily upgraded Crescent Warship?) that can actually mash Azdaras with ease, I dont like it. Or probably Dospect Armor is enough, I forgot since its so long since I played that mission. As for Igadzra, it would mean absolute no challenge if you play at their side, and absolutely no chance if you played against. You need to significantly upgrade UE tech. More powerful against shields and accurate primaries, more powerful and better guided secondaries, shields upgraded to stand against the Igazras massive 500 shields.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Quote
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
**No. The Miranu have absolutely no military. If the Gunship was used, I doubt it would be enough. Even if Crescent Warships put to use, they could still have problems. I bitterly learnt that in the Igadzra hunt mission, where you are swarmed by 6 Azdaras. Unless you give Miranu a new supership (heavily upgraded Crescent Warship?) that can actually mash Azdaras with ease, I dont like it. Or probably Dospect Armor is enough, I forgot since its so long since I played that mission. As for Igadzra, it would mean absolute no challenge if you play at their side, and absolutely no chance if you played against. You need to significantly upgrade UE tech. More powerful against shields and accurate primaries, more powerful and better guided secondaries, shields upgraded to stand against the Igazras massive 500 shields.
**
Who says you need to play for or against? It could still be part of the story, and at any rate a good programmer can make a plug easy or hard regardless of ingame technology issues.
--gav
Who
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Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**Who says you need to play for or against? It could still be part of the story, and at any rate a good programmer can make a plug easy or hard regardless of ingame technology issues.
--gav
**
Well, I suppose you could have things happening that the player is uninvolved in- but what fun is that? A player would probably be kind of annoyed if you were working for the UEs and were constantly getting updates of the Miranu and Voinian war..
_bomb
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I think that you don't see many love stories in EV simply because the engine isn't quite geared towards that. What are you going to do, keep meeting your significant other in a bar (or, with Nova, the Outfitter, Shipyard, or Trade Center) and have questions like "Will you go out on a date with me?" | Yes/No | "Great, pick me up on <DST> in a month and we'll have dinner."?
-EVula
Quote
Originally posted by Bomb:
**Well, I suppose you could have things happening that the player is uninvolved in- but what fun is that? A player would probably be kind of annoyed if you were working for the UEs and were constantly getting updates of the Miranu and Voinian war..
_bomb
**
Yep. I dont like seeing news about things I cant change.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Well one piece of reality hasn't been mentioned yet - Switzerland.
They barely have an army and have managed to survive two world wars in their viscinity. Thus, if the Miranu are avowedly neutral I see no reason why they couldn't maintain that for as long as they like.
On top of that, trade is a powerful weapon. If someone attacks the Miranu trade would undoubtedly stop and that would cause all sorts of problems for the attacker - particularly if they were busy fighting another war with one of the Strands.
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Its amazing how "tsk, tsik, nik" can mean anything from "There's a bomb in the bus, get help!" to "I'm hungry, feed me"
In case of ambiguity about anything I say - choose the nicest interpretation.
I agree that Miranu can be left peaceful. Why should they be forced to be warlike? Oh, and welcome back! You posted last time in last August.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Quote
Originally posted by Skippy the bush kangaroo:
**Well one piece of reality hasn't been mentioned yet - Switzerland.
**
You make an interesting point. I'd always seen the Miranu as sort of staying out of military affairs, so I thought I'd throw a curveball in ROTV II by making the Voinians invade. The Germans had a good reason to not bother with Switzerland- it made practical sense not to, neutrality or otherwise. But the Miranu control a whole bunch of worlds, rather loosely. And that kind of weakness would be something that would definitely attract the power hungry Voinians.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this. ****. Oh, yeah. Besides, if the Voinians have no humans left to fight, who will stand against them? The Strands are busy with their own affairs, and if the Miranu are declared neutral.. where does the plot go?
_bomb
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I think that you don't see many love stories in EV simply because the engine isn't quite geared towards that. What are you going to do, keep meeting your significant other in a bar (or, with Nova, the Outfitter, Shipyard, or Trade Center) and have questions like "Will you go out on a date with me?" | Yes/No | "Great, pick me up on <DST> in a month and we'll have dinner."?
-EVula
Quote
Originally posted by Bomb:
**I'd always seen the Miranu as sort of staying out of military affairs, so I thought I'd throw a curveball in ROTV II by making the Voinians invade.
Besides, if the Voinians have no humans left to fight, who will stand against them? The Strands are busy with their own affairs, and if the Miranu are declared neutral.. where does the plot go?
_bomb
**
Bomb, Im curious how the Voinians do their invasion. I dont know since I havent played ROTV II. Do they attack Mira straight away? As for fighting when they dont have any humans left to fight, I have a idea. It is rather crazy (hence no one has suggested it yet), but you could make the Emalgha as large in territory as UE, and improve their tech to the level of the UEs. It would be hard to make plausible explanations, but I will try. Say that the last humans that escaped gave info to the Emalgha how to colonize worlds effectively, so they have lots more than just Kelmaon. These humans also gave their tech to them, because of the UE-Emalgha- alliance in the stock scenario. They got also a lots of metal, so their ships are metal instead of wooden, increasing their shield and speed to UE level. If you dont consider it too unbalancing, Emalgha got the design for UE Destroyer and Carrier, and made their own version of it. If this is not OK, then you cant make them fight anything if you dont create a new race.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Quote
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
**Bomb, Im curious how the Voinians do their invasion. I dont know since I havent played ROTV II. Do they attack Mira straight away? As for fighting when they dont have any humans left to fight, I have a idea. It is rather crazy (hence no one has suggested it yet), but you could make the Emalgha as large in territory as UE, and improve their tech to the level of the UEs. It would be hard to make plausible explanations, but I will try. Say that the last humans that escaped gave info to the Emalgha how to colonize worlds effectively, so they have lots more than just Kelmaon. These humans also gave their tech to them, because of the UE-Emalgha- alliance in the stock scenario. They got also a lots of metal, so their ships are metal instead of wooden, increasing their shield and speed to UE level. If you dont consider it too unbalancing, Emalgha got the design for UE Destroyer and Carrier, and made their own version of it. If this is not OK, then you cant make them fight anything if you dont create a new race.
**
It isn't a bad idea, actually, but it would only work if you modified the game to contain them at the start. After ROTV II it would be impossible to do, as the Emalgha are crushed straight away and every human planet is captured. Also, what territory would the Emalgha occupy? There is practically no free space in the EVO galaxy, it's all being used (except for, maybe, the nebulas).
Elaborate and make it a little more sensible and I think you might have something there Cade.
--gav
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I would have liked to talk this with Bomb. I mentioned this in a E-Mail, but he didnt answer even if he has plenty of time after finishing college... But I will try. I am no professional writer, just a idea giver.
As I said, the last humans fled to Emalghion and gave all their info on colonizing, etc. So using this new colonization capablity they will colonize some uninhabutated worlds. They would be in a area between DSN-1810 (most remote UE outpost), and Leiton. So it would be DSN-1003, DSN-9608, DSN-4846, DSN-3133, DSN-4386, DSN-8619, DSN-1154, DSN-1903, DSN-4533, Smott, DSN-3930. And just because these four systems are 2 jumps in either direction from Kelmaon, these too: DSN-1469, DSN-8209, DSN-8200, and Holmm. This would be ideal since it makes sure anything to not do anything to DSN-1810, and doesnt take any systems Miranu. It takes also 17 systems, which is the exactly the same amount UE has at start including the frontier outposts and Huron. If we are in a ROTV setting, this makes it easy for Emalgha to strike at now-Voinian outposts and Sol. If you like a EVO setting, colonize Ji Nebula. Because UE is a ally of Miranu after the Diplomatic Relations mission, the last humans would present them to Miranu. They would then give them the Nebula Penetration device and tell how to colonize planets. This is not used in the stock scenario, but we could say the Miranu learnt how to do it after the end of it, finding F-25. Ofcourse, F-25 should not be colonized because it would conflict violently with Bombs plug.
Whew. That was a really well thought- of post. I downloaded EVO Complete Map, looked in the empty systems just under Miranu, hand counted the amount of systems. I added the 4 systems near Kelmaon, added Emalghion and Kelmaon, and compared to the amount of UE systems. I wrote down the names of the systems, so there wouldnt be any possiblity of confusion, and revised parts of my post several times. Took several hours including looking of map.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Quote
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
**< snippety snip>
**
A nice idea, but how would it be possible for the Emalgha to colonise 17 worlds simultaneosly? They wouldn't have enough population to go around... :frown:
--gav
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It's one thing to love somethin, but if you don't shower it with money then just don't talk to me. -- Paster Richards, GTA Vice City, VCPR
Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**
A nice idea, but how would it be possible for the Emalgha to colonise 17 worlds simultaneosly? They wouldn't have enough population to go around... :frown:
--gav
**
Also keep in mind they used ~wooden~ ships. This is clearly a race that has just achieved space travel (though God know how) and really isn't in much of a position to be a galactic power. I certainly like your idea, Cade, it works outsides the boundaries of normal expectations, and it's certainly creative. However, in terms of practicality I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off. Of course, this is all relative, since it is just a computer game. 
_bomb
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"Life is not to fear... Life is to enjoy." -
TEB
And don't you listen to these nitwits. Nova's a great game and don't let anyone tell ya otherwise. Better or worse than EVO? Who gives an african monkey's nads?
-pistgavin
I doubt the idea could be fitted into ROTV III though. Perhaps as a fresh plug, based, say 50 years in the future, with the Voinians occupying UE space and the Emalgha having advanced enough (like actually discovering metal) to travel the galaxy. One more thing, I don't think there's any habitable planets in the systems that you suggested.
--gav
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It's one thing to love somethin, but if you don't shower it with money then just don't talk to me. -- Paster Richards, GTA Vice City, VCPR
Quote
Originally posted by Bomb:
**Also keep in mind they used ~wooden~ ships. I certainly like your idea, Cade, it works outsides the boundaries of normal expectations, and it's certainly creative. However, in terms of practicality I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off. Of course, this is all relative, since it is just a computer game.:)
_bomb
**
Bomb, I would have said my original post again. That they got a lots of metal from the humans. But I like pistgavins idea more of actually discovering metal now that he said it. A freaking huge thanks! 
I come with these kinds of creative ideas when freely allowed think of ideas (brainstorming). Its really hard... but I like it so much as a to your question I try to explain it best I can. I will also send a E-Mail explaining how they got enough people to colonize 17 worlds. I can also show it here if you and gavin want.
pistgavin: certainly not. ROTVIII is the grande finale to the ROTV series, conquering even Crescent space this time. I thought it as a separate plug, too! Probably it would be called Reign of the Emalgha? Hehe. A third plug to the Reign series. Voinians occupying UE space? I dont like that, but its the only explanation. Humans fled, and is now in control of Voinians. Discovering metal is a better idea than giving. So terraform them! In Nova there is a string where you terraform a completely uninhabitable planet. The end result is named Nirvana, because it has almost perfect conditions. If you want a explanation how they did, the same idea as with Ji Nebula is used. Humans present Emalgha to Miranu, and they use their advanced tech to terraform it. Or because they travel the galaxy, having found metal, they find the Miranu and form a alliance. Just like the UE, and then they can ask to terraform planets.
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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
