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Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
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Voinians occupying UE space? I dont like that, but its the only explanation.
**
Uhh, then I don't think you want to play ROTV II. Not to ruin the stuff that happens or anything.. 
_bomb
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"Life is not to fear... Life is to enjoy." -
TEB
And don't you listen to these nitwits. Nova's a great game and don't let anyone tell ya otherwise. Better or worse than EVO? Who gives an african monkey's nads?
-pistgavin
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Originally posted by pistgavin:
**Peaceful civilizations don't always get an easy time of it... indians, tibetians... just because the Miranu only want peace, doesn't mean that the Igadzra or Voinians wouldn't be tempted by its lush and productive planets.
--gav
**
Um... The Indians you are talking about... you mean "Native Americans"? Or do you mean Indians as in from India? Either way, none of them are "peacful civilizations". I mean, how can you consider worshipping cows as civilized? And the Native Americans were particularly brutal, especially to each other. (The Iroquois come to mind...)
But yes, I agree with you that a totally peacful society would not survive, especially when there are humans around. Humans have this little thing called greed...
Another thing: Why, if the Miranu are so rich, do they not support any particular sides? (excluding the Renegade/Zachit) Or do they just funnel money "under the table" to whomever they want to win, while remaining neutral in word? (Sounds familiar... Chirac, maybe?)
Or what if theyre secretly supporting the renegades? I mean, I would think that if the renegades were such a problem, they would devote a bit more resources to the Zachit, for the reason that if the renegades are eliminated, the trade routes will be safer, and thus get more traffic. (Wow, what a run-on...)
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Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy... and then he dies.
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Originally posted by double_zero:
**Um... The Indians you are talking about... you mean "Native Americans"? Or do you mean Indians as in from India? Either way, none of them are "peacful civilizations". I mean, how can you consider worshipping cows as civilized? And the Native Americans were particularly brutal, especially to each other. (The Iroquois come to mind...)
**
I was talking about the Ghandi kind, who never did anything to upset anyone but were still taken over by the British Empire.
--gav
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It's one thing to love somethin, but if you don't shower it with money then just don't talk to me. -- Paster Richards, GTA Vice City, VCPR
--SARZ, WZ. --
Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**I was talking about the Ghandi kind, who never did anything to upset anyone but were still taken over by the British Empire.
--gav
**
It's a good point- the Miranu never seem to declare themselves one way or the other. Certainly they have "diplomatic relations" with the UE, but beyond those few missions that's about it. So what's to stop any of the three Strands from taking advantage of a culture whose only attack ships (before the Gunship missions) are Crescent Fighters? This is of course discounting the Zachit, who seemingly have their hands full with the Renegades.
_bomb
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"Life is not to fear... Life is to enjoy." -
TEB
And don't you listen to these nitwits. Nova's a great game and don't let anyone tell ya otherwise. Better or worse than EVO? Who gives an african monkey's nads?
-pistgavin
Quote
Originally posted by pistgavin:
**I was talking about the Ghandi kind, who never did anything to upset anyone but were still taken over by the British Empire.
--gav
**
I think you'll find that the British had added India to their empire over a century before Gandhi was born. And come to think of it, it was a pretty bloodthirsty place before they arrived.
Getting back to the original topic of the thread, I suppose a major reason why few people write plugs that change the politics of the game radically is that any such plug would be incompatible with many of the existing favourites. I'm guessing that most people probably play with more than one plug in at a time, for example I am seldom without Mars Colony or Beyond the Crescent. They're nice, tight little plugs that add something to the game without making too much nonsense happen. Some people might want 'Dark Station' as standard (though I think the outfits it offers make the game too easy)... such things might be really out of place if a plug is used which radically alters the governments or stellars during play.
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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/evodude2001/home.html")Old & Unimproved: Cerberus Station!(/url)
British Empire: I didn't really mean Ghandi himself, just that country. When I say indian I never mean the American kind.
As for the plugs, I don't think it matters whether or not you add the plug-in to your folder all the time or not. I don't keep ROTV in my folder, but it's still a great plug. I think people should be more radical about changing the universe: not extreme, but now that ideas are running thin it's time to shape up the possibilities a bit more and keep interest in plug-ins.
--gav
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It's one thing to love somethin, but if you don't shower it with money then just don't talk to me. -- Paster Richards, GTA Vice City, VCPR
--SARZ, WZ. --
Hmm. Personally I think the whole "Emalgha Expand Like Interstellar Pufferfish" idea is kind of unrealistic. Yes, this in EVO, not reality, but wooden ships , people! I don't think they could become a major power fast enough. And if the Voinians saw that they were becoming a major power, all they have to do is mount a major push and retake Emalgha and Kalmaon.
I prefer the "Voinians Expand Like Interstellar Pufferfish" idea (made by Shade), which takes advantage of the other property of pufferfishes; there's a lot of space inside them with nothing in it.
Basically, if the Voinians take over the known galaxy, either they have to do it very slowly (which is difficult, because it's likely there's conservative elements among the Voinian aristocracy, and once your charismatic leader dies, things tend to reverse), or they do it fast, and overstretch themselves.
The second idea is the one I'm going with. So we have the hypothesis that the Voinians now control the known galaxy, and are way overstretched, having just conquered the known galaxy.
Now, we have to consider this; the Voinians have a large number of slave races in the heartlands of their empire. If all the ships and troops that would normally be keeping them in line are off keeping the Strand races in line, then it is the perfect time for the slave races to revolt. This includes newer conquests like the Humans and Emalgha.
So, for "inner" slave races, we have;
Dur
Ala - The Dur and Ala hate each other, but this might conceviably begin an arms race.
Hinwar - The guys who rebel in the original storyline. In this scenario, a successful Hinwar rebellion is almost certain.
Emalgha - If the Voinians have only just reconquered the Emalgha, there is likely to be some form of underground resistance, which could conceviably retake Emalgha. They did it once, they can do it again - especially since they'll be inspired by the tales of the previous rebellion. Unless the Voinians decide after the reconquest that Emalgha no longer has valuable resources, deport the population, and raze the world to bedrock. That's conceviable - they did a similar thing to Iri. However, if they deport the population, see below.
Dieri - There are only a few million Dieri left on Dieram, most of them having been deported, but if the slaves had some way to keep in contact, then a widespread Dieri rebellion could be very disruptive. Likewise, a deported Emalgha population could do the same.
Humans - The hairless apes managed to resist Voinian invasion for some time, and it is highly likely that they could remain in contact with each other despite occupation. A Human rebellion would be likely, but the Humans would also be the closest to the "outer" Voinian empire - the Crescent - and therefore the Imperial fleets.
Tientu - The Tientu are unlikely to revolt. They didn't when the Voinians originally invaded, after all.
So the Dur, Ala, Hinwar, Dieri, Emalgha and Humans would revolt successfully. I'm going to stretch the imaginations a little and allow each to free surrounding systems, and develop the space resources to defend those systems. However Human space would be far from the size it was before - there might even be two rebel Human groups, one in the West, based around Earth, and the other in the East, perhaps based in the former Independent worlds. These two factions would probably not have the best of relations - the West Humans would think that the East Humans' non-contributions to the war effort was what made them lose, and the East Humans would probably blame the West Humans for not defending them.
So the "inner" Voinian empire successfully revolts, and it's likely that someone - probably the Dieri - would use thermonuclear warheads to turn Voinia into a blackened, glowing hell.
The rumors of revolution, coupled by the death of the Voinian Emperor (or his burecracy? In some Earth civilisations, the Emperor has been a figurehead, and the real work is done by the paper-pushers), would cause destabilisation in the "outer" Empire - the Crescent. It's likely that the Imperial Fleets would begin to head home to re-establish Imperial rule (we would have the Humans and Emalgha to thank for holding them off) and then establish more localised, military-run provinces in the Crescent.
But, fueled by the Empire's instability, the Crescent would also revolt. In the North Tip, it would probably be led by Zacha rebels hiding in the Ji Nebula. We could expect to eventually see the establishment of a more militaristic North Tip state, probably with it's center further north than the current Miranu worlds. In the South Tip, it's likely that revolution would be led by the Kayians of the Akrayhek system. They're the most organised militia, so it's likely they'd be the most organised resistance movement. A Kayian-led unified South Tip government would be interesting, to say the least.
The Strand races would lead the rebellions themselves. With the Strand Council destroyed by the Voinians, they might begin to cooperate (if the Council was the instigator of the Strand War) or embark on genocidal pogroms (if the Council was actually a moderating force on the War).
Since it's likely the Voinians would also destroy Crescent Station, we could expect an influx (perhaps an invasion fleet?) of races from beyond the Crescent. The Zacha string tells us that there are races beyond the Crescent, but what they are like can only be speculated upon.
It's likely that here, too, the Voinians would be exterminated. Perhaps the Miranu might be kinder to them than the Strand races. But then again, the Miranu are very greedy, and willing to go to morally shaky ends for profit - witness the MTC attacks in the Ski Resort string. It's possible that the Miranu might keep the Voinians as slaves. This is a nice piece of irony, and it removes the general image of the Miranu as peaceful, love-the-universe people. There's little to suggest that in the original EVO scenario (little to disprove it, too, though).
Thus, the establishment of Voinian hegemony over all the worlds of the known Galaxy might lead to the destruction of Voinian hegemony, and the extinction or enslavement of the Voinians as a race.
Woo, that was long.
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"I suppose it's Friday night in America, so I oughtn't to expect heaps of people to be on, but honestly! Do all of you have lives?" - Me, #ev3
Quote
Originally posted by Shade:
**Woo, that was long.
**
But, Woo, was it interesting.
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Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy... and then he dies.
Thanks! I'm glad to see you liked it. Of course, as a plug this would have to be a TC, probably set about fifteen years after the Voinians conquer the last of the Galaxy. The character could be a human who steals a Voinian Shuttlecraft or something, and the first mission would be to escape the Empire to join the Zacha rebels in the Ji Nebula (or maybe the Human rebels in the Proxima Nebula), and go on to liberate the Galaxy from the Voinian opressors! I wish I could do decent plugs.
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"As you are now, I once was.
As I am now, so shall you be.
So come, prepare to follow me." - Unknown Epitaph
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Originally posted by Bomb:
**Also keep in mind they used ~wooden~ ships. This is clearly a race that has just achieved space travel (though God know how) and really isn't in much of a position to be a galactic power. I certainly like your idea, Cade, it works outsides the boundaries of normal expectations, and it's certainly creative. However, in terms of practicality I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off. Of course, this is all relative, since it is just a computer game.:)
_bomb
**
sorry, this post IS rather odl but i read it and must reply to it.
Bomb, about the emalgha's wooden vessels... I took this up with esponer a while back and he gave a very good argument. Note, the emalgha have the third best armor in EVO. So espy asks me to define wood on another planet...
if that made any sense to you i am shocked lol.
what i am trying to get across is that we dont know just how dense Emalghian 'wood' is. for all we know it may be the equivalent of titanium or something...
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Insanity has its advantages
You could be on to something there. Organic structures can be very strong, but they'd tend to go brittle in the cold vacuum of space. And if the cell walls of the Emalgha wood were too strong, osmosis and other chemical exchanges couldn't take place. But still, it's interesting.
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"As you are now, I once was.
As I am now, so shall you be.
So come, prepare to follow me." - Unknown Epitaph
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**
Shade's ideas
**
Shade, if I had the time/graphics, I'd love to make a TC based on your premise.
_bomb
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"Life is not to fear... Life is to enjoy." -
TEB
And don't you listen to these nitwits. Nova's a great game and don't let anyone tell ya otherwise. Better or worse than EVO? Who gives an african monkey's nads?
-pistgavin
Who says that emalghian wood is actually wood as we know it? Maybe it's fossilized when they harvest it. Or, it could be based on something other than carbon, like those things in that one Dr. Who episode...
By the way, Shade, I like your idea. I've been thinking about trying my hand at plugmaking for a while. Problem is, I sort of stink at it. My last plug was an attempt to give the Crescent Warship red trim. I think I messed the sprites up though, because it blinked whenever I turned. That and the fact that it had no weapon space, even when I went and checked it with ev-edit...
Anyway, if somebody decides to make it, I'd love to help with writing story and/or concept art. I've got several ideas bubbling around now, as a matter of fact...
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Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy... and then he dies.
