You beat me to it Espy. That's my mistake on the interpretation of "semi-fast," but the argument remains the same. Not only should larger warhips be pentalized more during travel than say, a fighter, but this whole instantaneous IC travelis off as well. Using your example of an Igadzra with 8 jumps of fuel, that fleet could travel 8 jumps in a matter of IC seconds what would take EV:O ships weeks IC. This is an obvious violation of your own first rule "common sense must be used at all times."

As for my sugestion, here it is: During travel posts that do not involve a battle or interaction with other Player or NPC ships, the "Fuel Rule" is in effect, you can go as many jumps as the ship with the smallest fuel tanks in your fleet will allow. Now, here comes the part that is my proposal: since Battle posts are pretty much "real-time" as in they only take up a few hours IC at the most, bringing in reinforcents from other systems in reaction to an attack should be illegal because it would take IC days for even a squad of fighters to be brought in, much less 12 Igazras.

(Note, "IC" stands for "In Context" or "In Character" just as "OOC" is "Out of Context" or "Out of Character")

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Out ride the sons of Terra, Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth
"Saddam Hussein foregoes weapons of mass destruction (and) values human life." George W. Bush

I did mention that i was going to get a submod to look into the common sense item because i had none. The submod i chose however seems to be inactive. I hearby offer Esponer the submod position(for several reasons really, one of which being that no one in their right mind would argue with him ).

I find it to be rather limiting to be unable to bring new ships into a battle. For example, in other stories many outposts would have fallen if reenforcments had not arrived. I do agree that a time needs to be set for hyperspace but any time short of a day seems to be pointless. I am very open to suggestions/fixes.

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Insanity has its advantages

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
**
I find it to be rather limiting to be unable to bring new ships into a battle. For example, in other stories many outposts would have fallen if reenforcments had not arrived. I do agree that a time needs to be set for hyperspace but any time short of a day seems to be pointless. I am very open to suggestions/fixes.

**

There is no way to keep a steady measure of time in a webstory. Nobody posts like clockwork and posts usually vary in their actions to take up all sorts of differnt ammounts of time. What we need to to is keep this in mind and be very loose about time outside of battles. During battles however the fact that you can't bring in reinforcments immediatly is simply part of the game. I'm not saying that reinforcments should be illegal, just that they need to be reasonable. In the case that I am sighting, the game specificly points out that this outpost is isolated, meaning it is far from reinforcments, why then should Grundy be allowed to reinforce it instantainiously? The protection of ouposts far away from reinforcments is a problem that has faced every military leader ever. This Webstory shouldn't gt rid of that problem just because it is easier... rather players in this story should have ways to deal with it.

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Out ride the sons of Terra, Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth
"Saddam Hussein foregoes weapons of mass destruction (and) values human life." George W. Bush

Two things here, then I will shut up and get back to writing my IC post.

1. The player list reads for the Emalgha a player named "Thought Police". Where is this entity? He/she has not posted at all. The Emalgha are a key race to EVO. Just something to think about.

2. The fleet/reinforcement movement issue should be addressed. I am currently in support of Vice Admiral Ipvicus' idea of ship movement being in agreement with the observed behavior of ship movement within the game of EV:Override itself. Namely, that a large ship takes 3 days to jump one unit of fuel, a medium ship 2 days for a jump of one fuel unit, and a small, fighter-sized vessel 1 day to jump using 1 unit of fuel. These day times should be IC days, and not real time days. However, VAI is correct, that space battles would be over in a matter of hours, at most a single IC day. Thus, the reinforcements can not arrive to relieve the defenders unless they are 1-day-jump ships one system away. (I think I did the math right. *Hits head with shovel. ...There...all better. Anyways...)

The reinforcement fleet can thus be built up to include overwhelming force, if it takes days for it to get to the system. The government trying to retake the system thus has adequate time to plan the assault. That government also will now have the time to redistribute fleet positions to keep their empires properly and evenly defended.

So, however this is addressed, common sense should prevail. So far the webstory is moving along very nicely and very quickly. I hope this fleet thing doesn't slow it down. Let's keep up the good work people!

Regards,
Solel

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Cogito Ergo Cogito
United we stand, so I wandered off and got me a chair.

Bear in mind that while a space battle or capture of an outpost can take a matter of hours, dominating a planet is a lengthy procedure, taking days or weeks. Hence, time for reinforcements.

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-Esponer

I have found 2 ways that seem like a logical way to determen construction rates.

First, by how many shipyards a goverment has. This is logical, realistic, and simple. However, not all governments have shipyards and i wouldnt call it terribly fair.
Here is the shipyard count:
Voinian: 6
United Earth: 7
Human Renegades: 3
South Tip: 1
Strand Renegades: 1
North Tip: 2
Miranu: 4
Zidagar: 3
Igadzra: 2
Azdgari: 1

Second, there is by system number. This seems the most fair since all goverements have them :rolleyes:, but i fear you will all revolt because it just so happens that the Voinians control the most systems.
System Count:
Voinian: 18
United Earth: 17
Human Renegades: 3
South Tip: 1
Strand Renegades: 1
North Tip: 2
Miranu: 15
Zidagar: 14
Igadzra: 12
Azdgari: 10

I still have to come up with a reasonable rate per shipyard/system. Good time for a submod to intervene...

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Insanity has its advantages

(This message has been edited by U.E. Admiral (edited 12-04-2002).)

How about just whatever number seems reasonable to you? There really is no fair "formula" for this I think, every attempt I have seen to make one, including my own just seems to end in failure and angry people.

------------------
Out ride the sons of Terra, Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth
"Saddam Hussein foregoes weapons of mass destruction (and) values human life." George W. Bush

I suggest that we look at the figures that come out for the interim construction system (10% of your navy per day), and just set some figures based on those. Your systems are flawed in that:

• Some planets may have more than one shipyard per planet, and thus you wouldn't know from EVO.
• An independant (public) shipyard isn't the same thing as a military shipyard.
• This does not factor in the size of shipyards.
• "You can't print a story with an empty printer." For a 100% logical system, resources would have to be factored in. And resources does not necessarily equal credits. "This is my ship. Its armour is money, its shields are money, its hull is money, its engine is money and we serve liquid money refreshments."

Personally, I would do the following:-
• Take the starting figures for fleet size.
• Divide by 10.
• Say that the resulting figure is that government's construction.
• If the government loses a planet, builds a new shipyard, or establishes new mines (or anything that will increase or decrease productivity), allow them to restate their production, and the moderator(s) will decide whether that is fair or not

e.g.
Government x has 200 ships: 50 a , 105 b s and 45 c s.

Government x produces 5 a s, 11 b s and 5 c s per post.

Upon building a new shipyard on planet z , the player of Government x announces that his new production is 6 / 12 / 6 per post. The moderator does not revoke this. And thus is stands.

Upon losing a planet, Government x announces that his production is still at 5 / 11 / 5, as it begun, as he "didn't have any shipyards on that planet." If the moderator thinks he would have, the moderator could say; "oy, you lost some shipyards, now lower that dang production."

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-Esponer

I'd like to address some people.

Rebel
Regarding Grunadulater using "SAI." It's a mistake, and hopefully he'll start using SAE again soon.

You see, in Golden Horizon, the Igadzra Union (read: me) developed SAI modules, which had better tracking and a much better range than the earlier SAEs. Since most of Golden Horizon and some of Silver Horizon was spent with me using SAI modules, and they got around a bit (traitor in my ranks gave some stuff to pirates), it's easy for someone who played both webstories to get mixed up.

Ipvicus
Stop it. I'm sick to death of you posting OOC flames at other players, and this will stop, now, regardless of whether I'm co-moderator or not. If you have such a problem with the majority of the players in this story that you feel the need to post complaining OOC posts time and time again, then vacate your spot. I understand most of your arguments, and I will work to see that they are resolved, but not in the IC topic.

And I'd advise that you stop going around acting like a veteran to webstories all of a sudden. You've got a good mind on you, and you've played a few EV webstories, but unless I'm vastly mistaken, you're only the fourth most experienced player in this story.

Admiral
I need to talk to you - I haven't seen you on as spokekinspirit in quite a while. I'll be on AIM from 11 AM EST to about 6 PM EST, with a couple of gaps, but I'll try to be on as much as possible. Shoow up some time, 'kay?

Zurg, disco
I've said a few things that may have come out slightly more offensively than intended, and for that I apologise, but I am truly surprised that the two of you have taken both me and Ipvicus so well. It's rare you see someone who, when their writing skill is flamed about, will seek to improve, rather than return the flame or just plain leave.

You both are greatly in need of considering a few things that are "unmentioned" webstory rules, on this board, at least. If Admiral says they aren't, well...

It's common etiquette to assume that player's governments are clever. No assuming that the ships in their border systems are sitting on their asses, no saying that your ships are more skilled (you can probably get away with a couple of your ships being captained by more skilled pilots, as long as you realise that this doesn't have a great difference on their power), no thinking that they fight to the AI standard or will fall for AI flaws... and one that I view as one of the most important, but Admiral seems not to include in this story...

...we all assume that the security of the other government is unbreachable if the creator has not mentioned espionage as a valid option. And if espionage IS a valid option, then everybody needs to be told so they can post their own defences. It's things like saying you have a spy in the enemy's government and the like... you can imagine how chaotic things get if people can just say that as they will.

However, Admiral appears to be doing exactly this with the UE, claiming to have an inside informant. I'm a bit miffed about this, and it's one of the reasons I need to talk to him.

Oh, just one more note. Imagine you're a defence fleet, and a few enemy ships hyper into your system and then begin to hyper out. Imagine the layout in EVO, imagine the firepower of the defence fleet, and now imagine that every ship in the defence fleet is piloted by an intelligent captain. Ask yourself, both of you, how much damage they're going to do to the ships in those few seconds. It's a bloody lot.

If it helps, in EV, a triplet of Lightnings wasted my upgraded Corvette with ease between jumps, and they had to cross quite a distance first.

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-Esponer

One more thing... to everybody. It's a little test.

1. Fix in your head how you feel about the side you are playing.

2. Work out who is your greatest enemy. For the UE, this is the Voinians. For the Azdgari, either of the Strands. For my Conclave, the renegades.

3. Imagine your greatest enemy conquering your side. You have lost - all your ships are destroyed, your planets are annihilated.

4. How would you feel if this happened? What emotions would it rise in you?

5. Ask yourself: "What am I in this story for?" The chances are, you want to have fun. If your government is conquered by your enemy, are you going to have fun?

6. Now imagine the sides controlled by other players that you are fighting. Ipvicus, this means Grunadulater. Beeblebrox, this means Admiral. Zurg, this means Beeblebrox. Imagine how they will feel if YOU achieve that you are trying to achieve.

7. Ask yourself: is it really worth upsetting one person to make yourself happy?

That sounds good to me. But, do we have to state that we are buiding ships? Because if we don't, then after say 10 posts a player suddenly says "I have doubled my fleet size." And they also must state how many ships they started with and how many they currently own. This way everyone will know right away how many ships a person's fleet has.

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You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!
-Ultimate Rebel

Quote

Originally posted by Ultimate Rebel:
**That sounds good to me. But, do we have to state that we are buiding ships? Because if we don't, then after say 10 posts a player suddenly says "I have doubled my fleet size." And they also must state how many ships they started with and how many they currently own. This way everyone will know right away how many ships a person's fleet has.

**

Indeed. Unsurprisingly, I'd suggest my system of displaying it - a Fleet Status section at the end of your post, showing how many ships have been created and destroyed, their total ships, and the current location of them. The last bit might be difficult to constantly update for larger governments, however.

And of course, people can't have missed out on construction in the past few days, so that would have to be added in now... how about a basic rule idea of "if you didn't say you made ships on, say, Monday, the latest you can announce that you built ships on Monday would be two days later, on Wednesday."

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-Esponer
Am I posting in Just Chat or B&B;? If so, I'm probably joking.

<notes that Zurg knows he attacked Mavs>

<notes that such knowledge is perfectly legal due to a) independants spreading the word and long-range sensors on Yelts>

<notes that Zurg may attack him>

<fears, considering fleet status>

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-Esponer
Am I posting in Just Chat or B&B;? If so, I'm probably joking.

Zurg, you still haven't changed the NPD completion time to 7 days, as UE Admiral requested some time ago. As you aren't Miranu, you do not have the advantage of a tech already developed by your people in this case, while I do. Thus, it should take you some time to make one, as you are not as advanced as the Miranu are.

Also, how did Zurg go all the way across the galaxy in one day? First glance, it looks like 23 jumps from Riomer to DSN-2131.

Regards,
Solel

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Cogito Ergo Cogito
United we stand, so I wandered off and got me a chair.

(This message has been edited by Solel (edited 12-04-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by Solel:
Zurg, you still haven't changed the NPD completion time to 7 days, as UE Admiral requested some time ago. As you aren't Miranu, you do not have the advantage of a tech already developed by your people in this case, while I do. Thus, it should take you some time to make one, as you are not as advanced as the Miranu are.

The reason should be obvious. Zurg does not realise that "New Life" is for the OOC discussion of "Eve of Destruction", and as such is not reading this topic.

Quote

**Also, how did Zurg go all the way across the galaxy in one day? First glance, it looks like 23 jumps from Riomer to DSN-2131.

Regards,
Solel**

I'm tempted to allow that, as long as we can convince him soon not to do so. He could have simply sent an encrypted message anyway, which would have worked in a single post, so it makes little difference.

Let's cut them a bit of slack for some time. When they have no excuses left for not understanding the rules, we can crack down on them.

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-Esponer
Am I posting in Just Chat or B&B;? If so, I'm probably joking.

Understood, Esponer.

Hmm, what times are you normally on AIM? You never seem to be online when I am.

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Cogito Ergo Cogito
United we stand, so I wandered off and got me a chair.

Sorry bout the SAI thing. My mistake.

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I see undead people.
Visit the (url="http://"http://www.wheenit.com/monkey-robot/webboard/phpBB2/index.php")Monkey-Robot boards(/url).

I apologize for the repeated OOC posts in the IC topic, but I would like to poinst out that you yourself have done the same thing in this story. Also... the only post I would consider flame (my post to Zurg) was pretty much cleared by you on AIM. You might not have known that I was going to post in IC, but you knew I was going to flame. I also offered to help Zurg with his writing, which I didn't have to do. That said, I have been way too harsh as of late, and I will tone that down for the rest of the story.

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Out ride the sons of Terra, Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth
"Saddam Hussein foregoes weapons of mass destruction (and) values human life." George W. Bush

Quote

Originally posted by Solel:
**Understood, Esponer.

Hmm, what times are you normally on AIM? You never seem to be online when I am.

**

One reason you never see him might be due to the fact he lives in Great Britain. Then again, I have no clue where you live, so you might be in or near the same time zone. As for me, I am eight hours later than SD, being this I have only seen him on AIM once. Unfortunately he was off before I could send a message to him.
I was wondering if anybody thought my posts were too short, not very detailed, etc. This way I could try to fix it so that nobody would rather not care to read it or something. Any advice would be appreciated.
-Ultimate Rebel

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You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!
-Ultimate Rebel

Quote

Originally posted by Solel:
**Zurg, you still haven't changed the NPD completion time to 7 days, as UE Admiral requested some time ago. As you aren't Miranu, you do not have the advantage of a tech already developed by your people in this case, while I do. Thus, it should take you some time to make one, as you are not as advanced as the Miranu are.

Also, how did Zurg go all the way across the galaxy in one day? First glance, it looks like 23 jumps from Riomer to DSN-2131.

Regards,
Solel

**

I know after three days i just made it three more days till completion

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Life is full of surprises, but never when you need one.

• Homicidal Psycho Jungle Cat