We had an interesting discussion in (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum26/HTML/000098.html")#ev3(/url) today concerning the really good plugins available for EV/EVO. Regulus mentioned that:

can you please explain to me why, with a SINGLE exception, all good EV plugs are made by non-americans?

I thought that was an interesting observation. While "good" is of course subjective, looking at the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=rating&page;=1")top rated EVO plugins(/url), I did notice that a good number of them were made by non-Americans.

Pipeline said, partly in jest, that:

It's just an "ability to finish the product" thing
Yank kids don't seem to have it.
Toom uch easy living, if you ask me
Breeds in weakness

While I know he was mostly joking, I think there's some truth to what he said. Anyone care to comment on this? Opinions of which plugs are the best?

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

TIE lowers his head in agreement but doesn't wish to say anything

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"Do not speak with the Devil, my son!!"
"But how else will I learn what he wants?"

Er....Inbred laziness?

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The sentient Glue
Bubble waves to
everyone.

Some extra thoughts:

It seems that the sort of US kids who buy EV are looking for something different in EV than are people from other countries. The US kids seem to be more into the violence ("I can kill a Dreadnaught with a Shuttle!"), while others (both US and foreign, but mostly foreign, I think) seem to view the plot with much more reverance.

It may also be that, since a plug is a time consuming thing to make, that kids from the US find it hard due to the 30 second attention span that has been drilled into them by the culture they live in.

Certainly many of them have tried to make plugs, but the only really successful ones I've seen have been made by a single individual, whereas the US plugmakers that never get off the ground appear to like forming aux corporations. I think this reflects attitudes both in the US and elsewhere regards IT startups.

all the best,

dave

ps. yes, this was pretty rambling and disjointed. In short, I have no answer.

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(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")The EVO Chronicles: Tales of Life with the Blast Shield Down(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by theGlueBubble:
**Er....Inbred laziness?
**

I think he meant aside from that

Seriously, I have no real idea. The most popular plug of all time (FH) was written by a Brit.. which I can explain 'cos the brits rule (j/k) but the rest... no idea!

I think pipeline has some pretty good ideas about it though.

-Gildor

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(url="http://"http://jon.infiniti-web.com")jon.infiniti-web.com(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.jonpearse.f2s.com/story/index2.html")Fight for Freedom(/url)
(url="http://"mailto:jon@infiniti-web.com")mailto:jon@infiniti-web.com(/url)jon@infiniti-web.com

The list, as far as I can see:

EVGE: Kristoffer Andsen - I think he was swedish. Certainly not american.
Pale: Benjamin Singly - a yank.
FH/FF: Martin Turner- a brit.
NOVA: ATMOS - aussies.
F-25: Bombcat - Another yank
Override: Peter Cartwright - From belgium.
EV Classic: Matt Burch - american

I think I can safely discount Final Battle as bullcrap in this day and age of mamoth, bug-free plugins... that makes it about four out of seven, and I'm pretty well sure that more than 43% of EV's user base is located in the US.

-reg

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"Oh crap. I'm going to hell - I put the Bible next to Mein Kampf again."
-Her Holiness, Pope Jenne "Kirby" Hubbs

(This message has been edited by Regulus (edited 10-25-2000).)

"It seems that the sort of US kids who buy EV are looking for something different in EV than are people from other countries. The US kids seem to be more into the violence ("I can kill a Dreadnaught with a Shuttle!"), while others (both US and foreign, but mostly foreign, I think) seem to view the plot with much more reverance."

I resent that! As an plot-loving american, I'd just like to point out that such generalizations are totally inaccurate. Personally, my favorite part of EV/O is the plotlines, and the main reason why I play plug-ins is to add new and interesting mission strings. I have even, on occasion, used cheat plugs simply to get past a hard mission so that I could continue reading the plot. While it's true that the best plug-in DESIGNERS are non-americans, and i agree with that for the most part, I like to think that there are some US EV/O players who are not entirely obsessed with violence and have the sense to appreciate a good plot. So I ask a favor of all those reading this. If you are a plot-loving american, say so! Let's prove that we can still recognize a good plot when we see one!

Quote

Originally posted by Regulus:
Override: Peter Cartwright - From belgium.

Technically he was from the UK.. but, according to syntax, he's living in a tent in Belgrade.

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Post nubila, Cursum perficio.
Eternum.

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
It may also be that, since a plug is a time consuming thing to make, that kids from the US find it hard due to the 30 second attention span that has been drilled into them by the culture they live in.

Certainly many of them have tried to make plugs, but the only really successful ones I've seen have been made by a single individual, whereas the US plugmakers that never get off the ground appear to like forming aux corporations. I think this reflects attitudes both in the US and elsewhere regards IT startups.

(/B)

Yea, its too bad that we don't act more like the aussies, slow paced sitting outside watching the sun go down having a beer, watching the kangaroos.

If you want to make generalizations about an entire nation, go ahead, but I'm fairly sure there's a few people in all sides of the world that are lazy, and a few that are ambitious, and a few that just do decent hard work.

Also, how many groups that make plug-ins also live within...what, a 30 mile radius of each other?

If I had a group of 6 people in phoenix, it'd probably be a little easier to coordinate everything.

I'm not looking for a fight...okay, maybe I am. Come on! Put up your dukes!

CS

Pipeline you are da best!!Everything you said is true,true very true.Even on Starcraft all the people who actually made the levels seemed to be non-american!

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Visit my site (url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/indie/thecatacomb/index.html")http://www.angelfire...comb/index.html(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
It may also be that, since a plug is a time consuming thing to make, that kids from the US find it hard due to the 30 second attention span that has been drilled into them by the culture they live in.

Wait, I was gonna say something, but I forgot, so screw it..

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-Shade
AIM: Shade3742
<---- The information went data way ---->
"It's your asphalt."

Quote

Originally said by pipeline:
**
It's just an "ability to finish the product" thing
Yank kids don't seem to have it.
Toom uch easy living, if you ask me
Breeds in weakness
**

I shall agree...with you there...but my plug will speak otherwise. Shade can support me there, and he don't even like Star Trek...;)

PEACE YO!

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D.A.R.E
D rugs A re R eally E xpensive
"Quoted the Kwanza Man...Nevermore."
AIM: Kwanzar26

Don't discount the less well-known, yet decent plugs that are out there. Secession for EVO, Galactic Scourge for EV. And if Meowx has American designers, that adds several more quality plugs to the list right there.

Now, if we're talking about excellent plugs, then my short list of the greatest plugs of all time is EVGE, F-25, and the Frozen Heart saga. Two out of those three were done by Americans or Yankees.

UEC

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The best EVO experience on the net: (url="http://"http://www.stormmind.f2s.com/")uEVO-RPG(/url)

(This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 10-25-2000).)

I personally could care less where the maker of a plug came from (no offense, rabid nationalists!). But I think the main reason is that American people, in general, are underrepresented among the echelons of good plug-in writers is that Americans simply don't want to take the time (lots of us are under the impression that we have better things to do :rolleyes: ) or simply don't have the time (maybe because of our generally hectic lifestyle, except out here in Mississippi) to do the time-consuming writing and bug-checking that good plug-ins require. That's all I can think of right now, it's past my bedtime, so I'll just close up my brain again. I'm done ranting.

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Visit my EVO web site (currently under construction) and tell me how it looks (via the poll at the bottom of the page or the guestbook)! It's at (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/evosite")http://www.geocities.com/evosite(/url) !
I can't think of anything else to write...

Quote

It may also be that, since a plug is a time consuming thing to make, that kids from the US find it hard due to the 30 second attention span that has been drilled into them by the culture they live in.

Begging your pardon Pipeline, but if you're from Australia how can you have the slightest idea what American culture is like?

Anyway, I think the argument that most good plugs are made from non-Americans has been sufficiently debunked here. I personally abhor sterotypes, and I can testify to the fact that everyone I personally know has a much longer attention span than you would give an American credit for. I think the entire "Americans can't pay attention to anything" sterotype is a ludricous label as I have not seen this demonstrated in my own experiences. And, I would respectfully submit that being an American I have a better idea of what society is like in America than you do.

UEC

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The best EVO experience on the net: (url="http://"http://www.stormmind.f2s.com/")uEVO-RPG(/url)

Here is an idea that noone seems to have pointed out:

America is always termed the "land of just about darn near everything". You can get anything you want in America, and as a result, many Americans have very large imaginations about what they can see, get, etc.

As a result, could it not be that many American plug-developers come up with great idea's for plugs, involving massive amounts of graphics, ships, etc... that are simply too large to be actually created. (personally, I have thought about creating quite a few plugs in my time, but while my idea's are out of this world, my time isn't).

Therefore, maybe because of American society, plug-makers who are 'yanks' have wild ideas that they can never really accomplish. Maybe foreign societies that are toned down are better enviornments for imagining what a plug can do.

just a thought, and oh, btw, I am working on a scraps of dust Star Wars plug that is right now 15.3mb w/ only 75% of the graphics, so its a perfect example of Americans thinking big! After all, what other nation in the world has a Cadillac Fleetwood sized car??

And, on another, outside of EV note, many games involving violence (such as CS) are often played by Germans. From experience, over 1/2 the people I play are Germans, but the levels are all created by Americans.

Ya'll people that are defending Americans should back down a bit. 'Fraid we are lazy overall, except when some of us work on pet projects....but how much time does any of us have for pet projects? I personally only get 6 hours of sleep anymore. I go to school (counting getting ready and travel time) for 8 hours. I get home, and if it's a Monday or Wednesday, I only have 3 hours before I have to go to another three hours of school. Now, considering I have two hours of homework everyday, (No, I don't do two hours every day, because I am lazy. I do 8 hours on Sunday. ) I only have one hour of free time until ten at night. And since I have to include my daily quota of say an hour checking boards and posting, and a couple hours d/ling stuff or playing Warcraft.....well, my day is just pretty much fuxored. Although I have a pet project and as soon as I get a compiler at home.......

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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams

Listen guys, I can put this topic to rest. I know about america, i'm a US citizen, i even went to school there for a while and it sucked can i say. It was in an upper class atlanta school and they took it too seriously (Heheh, they beleived i wrestled crocodiles on a school camp one time) but anyway, i live in australia and i'm an australian citizen. The answer: Aussies Drink Better Beer.

Elementry my dear wazza!

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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-
"Just bung a couple more engines on the back" -Them-

Oh, we're getting more racist here. Don't you think guys that this topic is not really appropriate for this board.

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And how exactly are we getting racist?