Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
**I like your thingy ... thingy ... wait a sec, I'll find it eventually ... defence fleet thing, Ipvicus.

**

Agreed. I'm all for it.

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"Everything we know tells us that machines are structures intelligence designs, and that accidents destroy. Therefore, accidents do not design machines. Intellect does. And the myriad of biological wonders that sprinkle our world testify to the design ingenuity of a Supreme Intellect." -Robert Gange, Origins of Destiny

Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
**I may not be Mac, but I can tell you that...

Basically, that is indeed what I would have said, yes. Some of that would be legal with someone else's approval, and you could have a ship with EV Lightning stats that looked like a Nova Lightning for all I care, but the rest is pretty much a no.

Now that that's out of the way; I've decided to be Yemuro, not Zaxted. A little less economic points, but just look at those industrial points! Yai aik ai!**

Just as well, since Rak beat you to Zaxted. Yemuro is cool too.

How are defense fleets going to be handled? I think we might be able to multiply the number of dots (industrial, economic and agricultural) by 2, then give the planet as many ships as that can buy in one go. Example: Darven has five dots total. Multiplied by two=10 dots, so you could have a defense fleet made up of say 1 Kestrel 2 Corvettes and 3 Rapiers (if you use the 1 dot= a fighter 2= a Corvette ect. rule).

I like it. I would suggest that agriculture points be left out, since those are basically a miscellaneous rating that I added right away because it seemed cool. But, in general, I like it.

When do we start?

Probably Monday.
Hopefully at least one Confed player will come along by then. One player each for Confeds and Rebels will allow them to operate if necessary, without making them artificially weak. New players should be able to be integrated fairly seamlessly too once the thing gets going. It should be clear how this will work once I get the complete Edicts of Macavenger™ (I like that too, Shade, though I might not use your name ) formalized and posted later today.

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

Please put me in Zaxted. What's the target start date?

TILT I see Rak's got that system. I'll get back to you later....

- KK

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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch

(This message has been edited by Kaptain Karl (edited 05-09-2002).)

Sorry KK but it looks like Rak beat you to it.

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Gee, I didn't know Zaxted would be so popular... or is it all the dots? Maybe I should put in a couple more Zaxted's so supply can keep up with demand, or else boost it's economic dots since their's so much demand for the station.

BTW, if everyone who's going to be independent would like to pick a color for their nation/whatever, that would be nice, so I can mark them as taken more easily on the map. Anything that isn't taken should be fine. Dictionary, RGB, and HTML definitions accepted.

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

If I could be color #00FFFF it would be appreciated.

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"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams; live the life you've imagined!"
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I'll take Confeds.

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"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty." Albert Einstein
"I was not born to be free. I was born to adore and to obey."
- C.S. Lewis

Quote

Originally posted by General Rak:
**If I could be color #00FFFF it would be appreciated.

**

Done. Other map changes: added yellow capital squares to denote independent worlds that I can recall have been taken, even if they don't have a color yet. Also changed a couple of system scores to balance the Confederation and Rebellion a bit better; the Rebels had a 13 point advantage in industrial capacity to start with which has been minimized. They also have a one point economic advantage which I decided was insignificant.

The following are the 12 official Edicts of Macavenger. If anyone really hates something here, let me know and I'll consider changing it. It isn't as bad as it sounds; a couple probably could have been combined, one applies only to the beginning, and a couple specify things you can, not can't, do. So, without further ado:

1. Use Common Sense at all times.

2. Keep things realistic, and also consider possible non-military consequences.

(A specific example would be for the Confeds/Rebels (or anyone, really) going out and stomping on some independent worlds. It could inflame third parties and cause them to join your enemies. Think about these kind of possibilities before going out and trashing people. Remember, this is intended to be more story than war simulation, although the war part is more structured to keep things in control.)

3. The moderator is always right.

(At this point, I’m planning on mods being pretty much anyone on a list that isn’t involved in a conflict being allowed to moderate. Hopefully, I’ll be able to handle much of that myself at first since I’m an independent.)

4. No new tech will be allowed. Particle Beams and Tractor Beams are researched by their respective governments; no Cloaking Devices.

5. Story generally takes precedence over numbers in the Edicts following this one, however, it must always follow the above four.

6. Flagships may be upgraded in accordance with Edict #1 above. Also, a ship or two not part of a regular fleet intended for special operations of some sort may be upgraded, also under Edict #1, probably at the cost of an economic unit.

7. Each system has an economic rating indicated by the green dots on the map. Governments will get a number of economic units equal to the total of their systems added at the beginning of every odd page (i.e. 1,3,5 etc.)

8. Each system also has an industrial rating indicated by gray dots on the map. These are used primarily for building ships. Any fleet stopped at a planet with sufficient industry can add ships to its fleet there, though no other actions may be taken in that post, and it can’t be done in combat. Any ships classed as fighters (small dot on Density scanner display in game) cost one industrial and economic unit to build, excepting the Defender and Shuttle, each of which are one half. Any larger ships cost three of each unit to build. Ships that come with carried fighters as standard are three units plus one unit per fighter. Anyone may purchase civilian ships at non-aligned ports; Anyone with permission may purchase civilian ships from independent planets under the control of a player; anyone with permission can buy civilian and/or military ships at a Rebel/Confed shipyard.

(I decided to drop the medium classification because there really weren’t many ships that could fit into it, and figuring out which ones to put in to keep things balanced was a challenge. So, I cut it out.

9. Fleets move along the standard EV jump links as marked on the map. Generally, ship with least fuel would be a good guideline as to how far to go with each post, but if this needs to be fudged occasionally, Edict #5 applies.

10. System defense fleets are sized by adding the total economic and industrial units for that system and then doubling them; ships costing about that many units should comprise the defense fleet. Defense fleets cannot leave their home systems but can be called up at any time during battle to defend.

11. Governments receive a number of points to create initial fleets with based on total economic or total industrial units times ten, whichever is less. (the biggest fleet you have the capacity to build or afford) Initial ships cost industrial unit price only. The initial points will not carry over to any other function, so use them up. Ships built can be assigned to fleets in any groupings that seem reasonable. Fleets are assigned to a player to command by the government leader. Players can control one fleet, or many, or none; they can serve in some other capacity if desired.

12. Once a fleet gets up into the vicinity of 20-25+ ships, consider breaking it into two next time ships are added. I don’t want fleets to get too big. Not all ships have to be in fleets, a few can be saved for special ops by themselves if desired.

The way this works, we could actually have multiple people at Zaxted if Rak doesn't mind.

Also, you may notice that I mentioned the Shuttle as an exception to the cost rule. As far as I'm concerned, you can use any ship from the original EV in your fleet. I'll probably have a modified Scoutship for special ops at some point.

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

So how do economic units factor into buying stuff in the story? Can you buy ships with them? And just to clarify, you can only build ships at a planet that you control right? I cant jump into a non player controled independant system and hijack their industrial points to build my fleet right?

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
So how do economic units factor into buying stuff in the story? Can you buy ships with them?

Economic units are used for buying ships, and basically any other use you can come up with for them. Think credits, that's basically what they are. I'm just using them as a simpler solution, since it would be difficult to balance everything, set up income, etc. with regular credits, so I'm using a relative rather than absolute system.

Basically, to buy a ship, you need an economic unit (or 3+ for large ships) in your treasury and a free industrial unit on the planet you're buying from. In simple everyday terms, you have the money and they have the parts, you can get a ship.

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
And just to clarify, you can only build ships at a planet that you control right? I cant jump into a non player controled independant system and hijack their industrial points to build my fleet right?

Actually, you can. Since they aren't controlled by a player, we assume they have a free market of some sort and would be happy to take your money.

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

How do we keep track of the amount of resources and money we've got? And how do we know what we start off with?

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Yesterday, we bent our nexts to kings and emperors. But today, we kneel only to truth -Kahil Gibran

Hummm my colour will be #003399; a sort of blueish. My title will be "Prime".
Long live the Prime, may he rule for a million years!

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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/shades_shipyard")Shade's Shipyard(/url), the source for your ship needs.

ok this is a bit fuzzy. grey are for what, green are for what, and yellow are for what?

is it too late to join?
if not i want Jadzia or one of the new Zaxteds that you said you might put in.

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Insanity has its advantages

Please enter me on the Rebellion roll. Skyblade, I'm thinking Agena, Sirgil or Spica -- in that order -- but I'm certainly open to your ideas.

(And, Skyblade, I seem to remember something about you NOT currently having e-mail. Is this still the case? If it is not ... e-mail me, please.)

- KK

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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch

Mac, I'm still trying to grasp this "ecomonic units" thing....

1. Does your formula say the Corvette and the Destroyer cost the same number of units?

2. And the Kestrel and the Rebel Cruiser could actually cost the same, too?

3. Which "class" is the Rapier in? (Little dot or Big? I cannot remember how they appear on the game.)

- KK

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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
**Please enter me on the Rebellion roll. Skyblade, I'm thinking Agena, Sirgil or Spica -- in that order -- but I'm certainly open to your ideas.

(And, Skyblade, I seem to remember something about you NOT currently having e-mail. Is this still the case? If it is not ... e-mail me, please.)

- KK

**

I'd suggest taking Sirgil... we don't want to lose that system. I'll take Clotho. Hopefully we'll get more players to protect other vital Rebel systems.

Nope, my e-mail is still shot right now. :frown: I could certainly use it at the moment...

About point # 3 Mac: You're pulling my leg!

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"Everything we know tells us that machines are structures intelligence designs, and that accidents destroy. Therefore, accidents do not design machines. Intellect does. And the myriad of biological wonders that sprinkle our world testify to the design ingenuity of a Supreme Intellect." -Robert Gange, Origins of Destiny

<shifts uneasily in chair> Um... I think defense fleets should be bigger. They're big in the game. And I don't like the buying ships for points or whatever- that does't make sense to me. Come on, can't we just be reasonable?

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Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
ok this is a bit fuzzy. grey are for what, green are for what, and yellow are for what?

Industry (ship building), economy (money), and agriculture (something that sounded cool, so I put it in, no official function yet) , respectively.

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
is it too late to join?

It probably never will be.

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
i want Jadzia

Sounds good, what color?

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
or one of the new Zaxteds that you said you might put in.

That was a joke.

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
**1. Does your formula say the Corvette and the Destroyer cost the same number of units?

2. And the Kestrel and the Rebel Cruiser could actually cost the same, too?

3. Which "class" is the Rapier in? (Little dot or Big? I cannot remember how they appear on the game.)**

1. Yes, they probably will, however that isn't really unrealistic. They are of a similar size, and since the Rebellion is a government, it will be able to get things cheaper than civvies will - there isn't any profit margin needed for the builder, for example. Civilians won't be able to buy Rebel ships unless Skyblade agrees to allow it, so it should work out ok. Civillians aren't supposed to have access to the kind of firepower that military forces have, at least not at competitive prices.

2. Probably. Actually, a thought ocurred to me there that's going to alter a couple things. It'll probably lead to the medium grade being thrown back in, and Cruisers and Kestrels would count as warships.

3. It's a fighter, so it's one. Don't worry, your favorite toy won't cost you too much.

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
I'd suggest taking Sirgil... we don't want to lose that system. I'll take Clotho. Hopefully we'll get more players to protect other vital Rebel systems.

Eh, Skyblade, you start with enough stuff to build a good 8-9 fleets... why not give him all three? Remember, players can control multiple fleets like we did to an extent in BFS I, i.e. David ran every Confed fleet in existance. If you don't get any more players, just give each of you four fleets or something and you can run them through NPCs.

Quote

Originally posted by Luke:
Um... I think defense fleets should be bigger. They're big in the game.

If they were any bigger, it wouldn't be possible to take them over with one warfleet, maybe not even two. They aren't supposed to be all powerful or anything. Even now, Sol's defenses could probably just about match an average sized fleet by themselves.

Quote

Originally posted by Luke:
I don't like the buying ships for points or whatever- that does't make sense to me. Come on, can't we just be reasonable?

? ? No one else seems to be having any problem with it... What's unreasonable?

-----

Ok, a couple other thoughts. First, did I forget to mention that Mercenary and Pirate were still legitimate governments, as they were in EVW? I'm surprised no one has wanted either of those yet.
Second, I realized a slight problem in my points scale. Namely, the way I had it worked out, Rebel Cruisers would be 7 (3 + 4 Mantas), and no Rebel planet has that kind of points. So, I think I'll go back to the 3-2-1 scale. Kestrels, Confed Cruisers, and Rebel Cruisers would be 3, Rebel Destroyers, Confed Frigates, Corvettes, Argosies, Light Freighters, and Bulk Freighters would be two, and everything else is one (except Defenders - still 1/2). Sound Ok?
And third, just so I don't surprise anyone, my plan for my character all along has been to start as the mercenary Captain that destroyed the Aliens for the Rebels (I'd still be in a Vette, though), so I was planning on having a couple extra economic units (we need something better to call them in the story or it's going to look lame, I'll work on that) at the beginning under Edict 5 (that was actually the plan before I even wrote edict 5 for anyone who wants to ascribe ulterior motives to that). Just thought I'd warn everyone in advance so it doesn't come as a surprise.

And Skyblade, that means you'll let me buy a couple Destroyers, right?

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

Ok, can someone please explain how we build ships and all that?

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"I was not born to be free. I was born to adore and to obey."
- C.S. Lewis

Hi there,
Just put me as a Pyrate, though I will only be able to write on the 23th at night. Until then, Macavenger can do whatever he wants with the Pyrate government.

Thanks

I.

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Reine de ce Monde.