The title says it all. Old topic is about full, so continue your discussion where you left off here.

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Mac: Can the Jumpgate be rebuilt?

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Lord Asriel and KK haven't shown up in a while so I'm going to take over as interim warlord in the meantime if no one has any objections. I'll wait an hour or two for objections and then take over.

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Liberty is indeed precious but human life is infinitely more so.
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" ?ňiginally posted by spl_cadet:
**Lord Asriel and KK haven't shown up in a while so I'm going to take over as interim warlord in the meantime if no one has any objections. I'll wait an hour or two for objections and then take over.

**(/QUOTE)

Go ahead and do so. According to the rules, you as commander of the Pirate war effort have the right to command fleets during any period of time. If there are objections, they probably aren't good ones...

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I have a few problems with the hologram idea.

A hologram is a visual representation of an object. Assuming that you meant hologram when you said hologram, what prevents radar or MAD from punching through your scheme? For your information, MAD cannot be jammed electronically, which is the only deflection you used. So how can a holographic fleet, which doesn't exist on the HC viewscreen, be a target? After all, the HC rarely uses visual identification. Oh yeah, would it be pretty obvious to know that a ship is a hologram when an asteriod floats through it?

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Err I guess you didnt read the part about the generators broadcasting sensor profiles of 3 fleets equivialt to Kyle's. Not only would they appear to be there you're sensors would show them to be there. As for radar and MAD, you're assumeing that a highly advanced alien race 500 years into the future wont have ways of jaming or fooling your sensors that you have not anticipated.

(edit) Also the holographic fleet was at a distance, its iffy if you would have noticed any asteroids floating through or not especially if your visual sensors are so unrelaiable that they aren't used very often. Is there any past references to the HC not useing visual identification that you can back that up with?(/edit)

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

(This message has been edited by Vice Admiral Ipvicus (edited 01-02-2002).)

Skyblade, are you sure that you trust my fleet in the same system as yours?

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Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
Err I guess you didnt read the part about the generators broadcasting sensor profiles of 3 fleets equivialt to Kyle's.

Please define how they broadcast the data including any randomization algorithms. Also, what data was included in these broadcasts? What forms of sensors did they block and how did they accomplish that feat?

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
As for radar and MAD, you're (bold)assumeing(/bold) that a highly advanced alien race 500 years into the future wont have ways of jaming or fooling your sensors that you have not anticipated.

No. I am just stating that Kyle said nothing of jamming those types of devices. All he said was to jam sensors. Now, tell me how to jam a magnetic anomaly detector. Also tell me how to jam decimeter wave radar pulses. I never said that the Aliens had these systems, just wondering if Kyle deployed them.

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
Also the holographic fleet was at a distance, its iffy if you would have noticed any asteroids floating through or not especially if your visual sensors are so unrelaiable that they aren't used very often.

Today's optics are able to achieve facial recognition from space, through the earth's atmosphere. New advances in the fields of photoelectric devices (including light superconductors) allow optics to be able to discern a large asteroid flying into or through a hologram, even at thousands of miles. Now, who said HC optics are unreliable? They are top-notch, but the HC prefers to rely on more "powerful" sources.

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
**Is there any past references to the HC not useing visual identification that you can back that up with?
**

No, but it is common sense to trust your electronic and physical sensors over visual contact. Especially when cloaking devices and holographic images are so common.

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If you intend on being so nitpicking about everything i'de love to see in your post where you describe deploying these sensors. I would feel differently about the entire thing if you had so much as scaned the Alien fleet in your post, but you didn't; and dont act as if it was a given i could claim right back that all of Kyle's coutermeasure should have been a given. I will however go as far as you have in asking for the specific frequencies and wavelength type crap and ask for your proof in specs that any of your fleet has these sensors on board. Don't bother answering it dosent matter, because this is a game. Kyle shouldnt have had to give you all these specifics and neither should you; but you and Carn are acting like kids who when confronted by a scissor to their paper, cry out "uh unh I've got... A TANK!"

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
If you intend on being so nitpicking about everything i'de love to see in your post where you describe deploying these sensors.

I had thought that it was common practice to scan approaching enemy fleets

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
I would feel differently about the entire thing if you had so much as scaned the Alien fleet in your post, but you didn't; and dont act as if it was a given i could claim right back that all of Kyle's coutermeasure should have been a given.

Mine was a given because it is standard practice. His is NOT because he is using a non-standard strategy. It is not common practice to cloak holograms with scanner profiles, I assure you. And IF I mya remind you, Kyle gave me no opportunity to scan his fleet; it was a one post battle.

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
I will however go as far as you have in asking for the specific frequencies and wavelength type crap and ask for your proof in specs that any of your fleet has these sensors on board. Don't bother answering it dosent matter, because this is a game.

If you wish to inquire into the specifications and types of scanners contained on-board the HC ships, ask away. I would, however, ask you to have pointed and specific inquiries.

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
**Kyle shouldnt have had to give you all these specifics and neither should you; but you and Carn are acting like kids who when confronted by a scissor to their paper, cry out "uh unh I've got... A TANK!"
**

I am not responding to your insult, but I will respond to your foremost point. Kyle should be required to release those specifics because he decided to make a move which heavily involved them,

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Uhh i think you miss my point. I wasn't insulting you, I was pointing out that Kyle had superior tactics and stratagy and since you couldn't fairly defeat him on the battlefeild of tactics (to quote Macavengers apt phrase), or within the rules of the game, you cheated in a quite immature way.

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Quote

Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus:
**Uhh i think you miss my point. I wasn't insulting you, I was pointing out that Kyle had superior tactics and stratagy and since you couldn't fairly defeat him on the battlefeild of tactics (to quote Macavengers apt phrase), or within the rules of the game, you cheated in a quite immature way.

**

How did he achieve tactical superiority if his whole strategy was to use the holographic images as masks? Therefore, I am arguing against his poor tactics rather than a technicality. Had there NOT been holographic images, his post would have been: there was a great battle. Here are the losses. After all, that was the only thing besides the holographic crap in the entire post.

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(This message has been edited by General Rak (edited 01-02-2002).)

So what I'm hearing is that you paid no attention to the holo-fleets because you didnt like them, then proceeded to post another tacticless "great battle here are the losses" post in which you totally destroyed Kyle's fleet without him countering at all? Also the fact is that his fleet wouln't just line up for you and Carn to destroy them as you're posts would have us belive; whereas, your fleet withdrawing with losses equal to his is both realistic and tacticly sound.

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Alright, Asriel is back. So I'm back to being a lowly chieftain. Now to go and kick Mac's ass...

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Liberty is indeed precious but human life is infinitely more so.
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Quote

Originally posted by Azdara Ace:
**Skyblade, are you sure that you trust my fleet in the same system as yours?;)

**

On a serious note, Azdara, I'm beginning to wonder if I should strip you of your fleet. The way you keep hinting at destroying Dreden fleets is making me have seconds thoughts about your rank and command...

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I'm sure Kyle would grant amnesty to a defecting Dreden Commander if it had blown up their President... after all you guys got a defector.

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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**On a serious note, Azdara, I'm beginning to wonder if I should strip you of your fleet. The way you keep hinting at destroying Dreden fleets is making me have seconds thoughts about your rank and command...

**

Eeek! I'm all serious now. Good gracious, I was just joking.

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You would have to be ignorant, derranged, demented, or dead to turn down the oppurtunity to fly an Azdara.
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Quote

Originally posted by Azdara Ace:
**Eeek! I'm all serious now. Good gracious, I was just joking.

**

Alright, just checking.

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Alright alright...here I go. For the last time, the fleet was broadcasting sensor stats just like my real fleet did. Tell me how that doesn't work. Putting sensor readings in an emittor, installing them on asteroids FAR AWAY to make it look like the real presence of three very big fleets in visual and scanning aspects. FAR AWAY get it?

Rak, I never ever achieved tactical superiority. My fleet took a lot of losses as did yours. I based it on you turning tail and morale in great decline because each and every one of your damn pilots and crew members could see around 3 enormous fleets in the distance and how the hell would they know that sensor readings (which said that they WERE there) could have said otherwise? They all saw fleets. Morale was down, ESPECIALLY in fighter pilots flying around the system and watching an ominous assortment of red warships in the distance, warships that they KNEW were the enemy. A lesser point, consider your ammo count after fighting Jager and me in some very large battles.

And Rak, you DID scan the damn fleets. What you found were the sensor readings that were being broadcast throughout the whole system by the emittors!

My poor tactics Rak? Let me see some great new tactics of yours before you start dissing mine. Oh but I forgot, you sent fleets through a gate behind asteroids that were "broadcasting strange sensor readings" and supposedly destroyed a well prepared alien fleet that was just waiting for you. Tactics are tactics, and I wasn't going to nitpick yours until you did mine.

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Damn fine post if you ask me, of course it probably won't matter to Rak.

On antoher note I would like to know your e-mail address Kyle I have some interesting plans for leveling the playing feild a litte and would like your input, you are the Emperor after all

(edit)Fixed typeing mistakes(/edit)
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Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far dirves the thundering jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth

(This message has been edited by Vice Admiral Ipvicus (edited 01-02-2002).)