Quote
Originally posted by Magpie:
**TRADING IS STUPID!!!!!!
**
Ahem, WHAT! 
Boring, yes, & a lack of a challenge. But not stupid.
Trading has the advantages of being simple, not upsetting most govs, and not having to throw your lot in with a gov until boredom demands it.
A lot of people don't like trading, that's fine, but it's no reason to call trading stupid.
Trade routes:
• Buy equipment (or was it industrial goods?) at Tabletop and sell anywhere in the Sol system (one hyperjump away).
• Buy food at Clotho II and sell at Palshife.
Use 3-4 captured bulk freighters and then, depending on the government you're working for, use a rebel cruiser or a confederate crusier as an escort to protect your own butt :).
Unless you're set on having a clipper for some reason, the easiest way to get a bigger fleet is to get a ship with a larger crew. I'd recommend the corvette for beginning to midgame, as it's got a large crew and can take out any civilian ship other than a Kestrel (assuming you use straight fighting tactics, which if you don't allows you to take out a confed cruiser with a clipper). It also only costs 2 million credits, which should be fairly easy to obtain by any number of means.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
I'm looking for a beginner's tip. I'm flying a clipper and can beat any fighters except the lightning and rapier one on one. Don't laugh at me for that. I don't like to hire escorts, gets pricy. And have terrible odds of capturing ships. What do I do to expand my fleet? Please help.
To expand your fleet, upgrade to a ship with a larger crew. This will increase your capture chance greatly. use that new capture chance to capture large cargo vessels, then find a fair to good pice trade route that is raletively safe for your escourts. if pirates, etc. jump in to attack you, you can tell your escourts to hold position, and they'll stay safely out of the fray while you take care of or run away from the enemies. The only time this doesn't work is if one or more of your escourts has already shot at an enemy vessel. If that happens, go strati for the enemy vessel, and keep telling your escourt to hold position while you shoot the enemy to get thier attention away from the helpless frieghter. Just be sure you can take them on...
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(url="http://"http://www.avidgamers.com/phil")Philosophical Mouse(/url), two words that don't go together.
I'm finally out of marshmallows.
(/backspeak)(/mindless rant)
Quote
Originally posted by Smasher:
Unless you're set on having a clipper for some reason, the easiest way to get a bigger fleet is to get a ship with a larger crew. I'd recommend the corvette for beginning to midgame, as it's got a large crew and can take out any civilian ship other than a Kestrel (assuming you use straight fighting tactics, which if you don't allows you to take out a confed cruiser with a clipper). It also only costs 2 million credits, which should be fairly easy to obtain by any number of means.
Actually, the Corvette costs 2.5 million and can take any civilian ship with straight tactics, and pretty much any government ship except the Cruisers too. I also reccomend it for most of the game, until you can get a Cruiser or Destroyer after completing the alien missions. Getting a fleet is not a big concern, since I get most of my mooney from missions, not trading. In fact, I almost never use any escorts except fighters off my ship.
And if you can, get out of that Clipper. An Argosy is good if you've got enough money, if not, I'd almost rather have a Scoutship than a Clipper. Also, a good way to make money quickly early in the game if you haven't is the Diphidia II mission string. A Clipper or Scoutship works fairly well for those missions, and you get a million credits, which takes you a long way towards getting a Corvette.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
Thanks for the tips. Just to have you know, my Clipper isn't stock. I got rid of the Jav pod and got a torp launcher. I got a mass expansion, sold the proton cannons, and bought a proton turret. One more question, does the war between the rebellion and the confederation ever end? Is one of your missions ever to conquer the enenmy captial?
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
Thanks for the tips. Just to have you know, my Clipper isn't stock. I got rid of the Jav pod and got a torp launcher. I got a mass expansion, sold the proton cannons, and bought a proton turret. One more question, does the war between the rebellion and the confederation ever end? Is one of your missions ever to conquer the enenmy captial?
Unfortunately, the war doesn't end. A few plugs out there do have the war ending, try New Horizons on the addons page.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
Forget trading!
If you wanna collect credits fast, keep cruising into the sector from Atropos to Pirate's Cove and plunder pirates. This also works well between Spica and New Antigua. (But off Atropos is my favorite. The pirates seem to come after you faster there.)
Forget trading!
- KK
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“You will find that we will be either the most loyal and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!!!”
For plundering Pirates, you can also try the NGC-6762 system(Next to Sirgil). I've had a lot of luck with getting pirates there. Atropos to Pirates Cove works Ok too, KK. Continuing on to Darven after that is a good idea if you have the fuel, that may be the most pirate infested system in the game.
/me goes to ResEdit for reasearch
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-17-2001).)
Well, after doing some basic research in ResEdit, here are my results. First is a list of some of the most pirate infested systems in the game. Numbers are average pirate ships in system, computed by percent chance of a pirate ship times average ships in system.
Darven 2.00
NGC-8113 2.00
NGC-1592 2.00
NGC-7665 2.00
NGC-1027 1.80
NGC-6762 1.60
NGC-5465 1.60
NGC-4812 1.35
NGC-1896 1.35
NGC-0595 1.35
I've also done a similar statistical breakdown on several "routes" you can fly to hit a lot of pirates, listed by order of efficiency.
Spica - NGC-1027 3 Systems 3.90 Pirates 1.30 per System
Lethe - NGC-1896 3 systems 3.75 pirates 1.25 per system
Atropos (Darven) - NGC-4812 5 (6) Systems 5.35 (7.35) Pirates 1.07 (1.23) per System
Apollo - NGC-0595 4 Systems 4.65 pirates 1.16 per System
Sirgil - NGC-6762 2 systems 1.90 pirates 0.95 per system
(edit) The boards don't seem to recognize consecutive spaces, sorry. It looked a lot prettier when there were 5 spaces between each section. <shrug> (/edit)
All have varying lengths, total average pirates, and average pirates in each system. The main strength of the last one is that it's only two systems, and you can sit and wait in the NGC-6762 system for a while and have one jump to get back at any time. Spica - NGC-1027 appears most efficient, is also pretty short, so you can do it with a lot of ships, even a Defender.
I might do a little more advanced research on this sometime when I have time to kill, and release a "Guide to pirating the Pirates" or some such.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-18-2001).)
Good report, Macavenger. (I forgot about NGC-8113, between Lethe and Privateer's Haven.)
I prefer NGC 8113 and NGC-1592, off Pirate's Cove, for the simple reason they have clearer space (no asteroids getting in the way of my dog fighting). Darven and the system off Spica are too congested for clean shots. 
- KK
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“You will find that we will be either the most loyal and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!!!”
Quote
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
**Darven and the system off Spica are too congested for clean shots.;)
**
I don't find Darven that bad. And the other one with a 2 average isn't off Spica, it's off Apollo towards Evildrome. I believe NGC-5465 is the one off Spica. That one doesn't have asteroids I don't think, though the sensor interference is of course bad, which isn't good if you want to use torpedoes.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
Quote
Originally posted by draco_2488:
**Has anybody every, on the side of the rebels, captured 3 or 4 of the huge Confed freighters? They give 500 cargo space each, which makes money making easy. I once got 100,000 profit on a simple food run, when I had 3 of them.
Does anybody else have a strange technique that they use? Any technique at all?
**
I captured 6 bulk freighters (no joke), and ran the Spica/Yemuro route. Not only can you buy medicals low at Yemuro & sell them high at Spica, you can buy something at Spica (equipment, I think) and sell it at Yemuro. With the 3000 tons of cargo space that 6 bulk freighters provides, you make about a million credits with every run. Of course, you need 1.44M credits just to buy enough medicals to fill that space, but once you've got that capital, the money just rolls in. Just be sure to always tell your freighters to hold position as soon as you enter a system so they don't get into trouble - pirates will virtually always attack you first.
Whether I have captured freighters or not, that's the run I usually use. I did the math and it works out to have the best profit per day. It's especially important to know what your profit/day is if you're having to pay your escorts every day. That's why, in most cases, your profit/day is more important than your total profit for the route.
And trading is more profitable than combat. Combat takes time, and your profit is determined by what opponents show up. If there are no Kestrels, you don't get that 300,000 credits. Also, spoilsport Confeds can show up and take your kills. There's very little more annoying than having a Kestrel's shields down when a Confed Cruiser shows up and destroys him. Plus, you have to figure your re-arming cost cuts into your profits a little.
Just some thoughts.
Paradigm
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Quote
Originally posted by Paradigm:
Whether I have captured freighters or not, that's the run I usually use. I did the math and it works out to have the best profit per day. It's especially important to know what your profit/day is if you're having to pay your escorts every day. That's why, in most cases, your profit/day is more important than your total profit for the route.
Profit per day depends on what kind of ship you use and how much cargo space you have. Assuming equal cargo space available, with a three day per jump ship (Argosy, Kestrel, etc.) that's actually not the best route in terms of profit per day. A run I use a lot is Procyon - Pollux. With a three day ship, profit per day works out to 26.625 credits per ton there, and 25.714 credits per ton for yours. If you use a faster ship yours is better though.
Quote
Originally posted by Paradigm:
**Plus, you have to figure your re-arming cost cuts into your profits a little.
**
What rearming costs? I don't use much except turrets and sometimes fighters, occasionally a few torpedoes against a Corvette. But those costs are trivial compared to what you can get from pirates.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-18-2001).)
Quote
Originally posted by Macavenger:
**Profit per day depends on what kind of ship you use and how much cargo space you have. Assuming equal cargo space available, with a three day per jump ship (Argosy, Kestrel, etc.) that's actually not the best route in terms of profit per day. A run I use a lot is Procyon - Pollux. With a three day ship, profit per day works out to 26.625 credits per ton there, and 25.714 credits per ton for yours. If you use a faster ship yours is better though.
**
Yeah, I know profit depends on lots of factors... and should really be counted in terms of creds/ton/day. There are two reasons I don't factor with 3 day ships. First, I use fast ships when I run cargo and let my escorts carry the majority of it. Second, in every test I've done, if you are in a 3 day ship and have escorts, your escorts still only charge you for one day each time you make a jump. So my run works out to be 55 creds/ton/day in a 1 day ship (if I'm remembering correctly & Industrial is the second item being traded). I don't know what your route is worth in a 1 day ship, but I'll check it out. Maybe I'll end up liking it more than the Spica run.
Quote
Originally posted by Macavenger:
**What rearming costs? I don't use much except turrets and sometimes fighters, occasionally a few torpedoes against a Corvette. But those costs are trivial compared to what you can get from pirates.
**
Well, your re-arming costs are probably minimal. But if you are in a fighter & using secondary weapons, then your profits will be smaller. I figure that people who are fighting in ships like Kestrels probably don't need money enough to worry about it. But when you have a little over a million in capital and you're trying to raise more, trading is one option and raiding pirates in a fighter is another. So it's in that circumstance, when you're trying to maximize your profits, that buying new torps and missles (at multiple thousands of credits each) becomes a cost worth keeping in mind. But you do have a point.
As I say, I'll try out your run.
Paradigm
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I get 60 creds/ton/day for yours and 53.25 creds/ton/day on mine. Not a whole lot of difference. The advantage of mine is that it's short, only 1 jump, and relatively safer as long as you don't annoy the Confeds. BTW, cargo for that is buy Lux. Goods at Procyon, seel at Pollux, then buy food and take it back. You don't make much on the food of course, most of the profit is from the Lux. Goods, but 24 creds per ton on the way back is better than 0.
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Almost doesn't count, but barely does.
"The problem with the designated driver program, it's not a desirable job. But if you ever get sucked into doing it, have fun with it. At the end of the night, drop them off at the wrong house."
- Jeff Foxworthy
Quote
Originally posted by Macavenger:
**I get 60 creds/ton/day for yours and 53.25 creds/ton/day on mine. Not a whole lot of difference. The advantage of mine is that it's short, only 1 jump, and relatively safer as long as you don't annoy the Confeds...
**
Okay, maybe I guessed the return commodity incorrectly for my route. Here's the thing: that difference of 6.75 creds/ton/day does seem small initially, but when you multiply that by the 3000 tons I used to haul, it becomes a somewhat more significant 20,250 creds/day difference... so around 121k over the 6 days that mine takes. Not huge, but significant. As for safety, I use fast ships so pirates can't get me real easily (and I always invest in a few defensive outfits), plus I like a little risk. I don't mind the number of jumps because we've already shown that over the same number of days (and playing time) they'll make about the same. You do more runs and get paid less each time, and I do fewer runs but get paid more each time.
But thanks, I think it's good to have this discussion, since it may help someone find a more profitable route.
Paradigm
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