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    • Making a Platform Game

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      Hi,
      My daughter should like to develop a game like "Prince of persia". Is that possible with Coldstone ? It seems that the logic of the player movement should be different than of a RPG game : right/left and up/down (with climb, ... options) in lieu of North/South and West/East.
      Thanks,

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      The prespective might be able to be done with out it looking queer... but u most likly wont get a climb. i wud suggest a convetion of that type of game into an RPG format. If she is bent on a platform type game and not a certain story line then, as i said it might be doable. u will have to do some queer things with the graphic tho.
      If u want to try, then i would go about it by making a full set of graphics that are from a side view as if they were going into a sidescroller or platform game, mario style. Then the maps would be set up to look like the platform game. Then the queer setup begins, any one that has an idea on this pls give help. You need to make some sort of global that forces the PCs and NPCs toward th bottom of the screen, then set up a similare force that would push u north amd atttack it to the up button. Lastly u need to disable the mouse as a movment tool because it is fairly usless for this. a suggestion on the grapics is that the animation of walking down should be some sort of sigle frame of the character croutching so it looks like it is prepared for a fall as he "walks" down from a jump or climb. this is pure consept and would take ALOT of effort for it to work. The gravity imitation thro the use of globals would be the hardest part.

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      Humanity will crumble under tides of blood.
      irc: Draco/Dracon

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      if its side scrolling then probably not. maybe turning the type of genre to a overhead game might work though.

      (This message has been edited by DJ (edited 05-03-2003).)

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      isnt there a tool that u can use to draw things off limits? or do you just designate ceratin items off limits like trees etc so you dont walk through them? that way you could designate huge chucks of graphics above you as "unwalkable" except like ladders and stuff and then you could make it so that any time the player hit the up key it would load the ladder cminbing graphics? and for jumping i also thought u can make a pit, although i have no clue how the gravity would drag you down it, maybe when you touch a certain part of the ledge coldstone could load a graphic of your character falling, like a picture, not in game at all. for jumping you could have a controlled forward jump? basically animation of your character going forward although i dont know if coldstone would let them jump through impassable objects keeping you side scrolling to begin with. maybe for jumpiong you could have a jump button that simply jumps you up then the same buttin in conjuction with the left or right arrow key that would make a forward jump? i have no clue since im just making graphics right now, these are thoughts that passed through when deciding if we could use coldstone for other things.

      i also thought of ways to make a forward scrolling overhead shooter but im not sure. like making the map just one screen big then having the very elongated map somehow animate under you pulling through? so you guy doesnt move forward, he just moves side to side with blocks keepiong him from top to bottom?, the map actually moves down, giving the illusion of movement? no clue if it would work.

      (This message has been edited by DJ (edited 05-03-2003).)

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      hey ellryx u know ur turn based game thingy, is there a way to limit movement in it? like fallout etc for bo(th you and bad guys or is it more just ogre battle'ish where you stand and deliver?

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      Great thanks to all of you.
      I didn't know that my question would lead to so much interest and comments. I had just follow the "training" to make me aware of the environment. That has lead to many questions about helping my daughter to make her dream reality. But, now that I read your comment that reveal so much difficulties (and confirm my doubts), I wonder if a better dedicated development tool exist on the Mac platform. Perhaps, if Coldstone receives same kind of requests, they could make a tool for that use. I know also Real Basic, but did'nt consider it for my daughter because of the lot of development which would be required to create a "game maker" environment.

      Claude

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      as for other engines the only side scroller i can think of is (url="http://"http://sawbladesoftware.com/")http://sawbladesoftware.com/(/url) but it requires a g4/800 to play the game which is ungodly high. you might be able to find a engine more to your liking at (url="http://"http://www.idevgames.com/")http://www.idevgames.com/(/url) but you probably wouldnt be able to sell the games as the engines are for freeware games only. kinda sucks but o well. once again if your daughter would be willing to turn her prince of eprsia game into a diablo type view coldstone would be perfect.

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      Quote

      DJ Sez:
      **hey ellryx u know ur turn based game thingy, is there a way to limit movement in it? like fallout etc for bo(th you and bad guys or is it more just ogre battle'ish where you stand and deliver?
      **

      ::attempts to reply to this thread for the 5th time::
      Yes, motion is restricted to 3movement tiles/positions (defensive|neutral|offensive)
      this is only in the P edition.

      Climbing in CGE easy,
      Jumping in place easy,
      falling from one surface to another hard if not futile*
      (as taken from the eLL' dictionary)
      futile adj. (f.u.'tIsle)
      ()1. it would take you less time to learn how to program it yourself.
      (      )2. the results would be lackluster, and of the nature Frankenstein (see opticallyMutilated )
      ()3. massive mental energy would be diverted, leading to a recursion of headaches
      (      )4. will lead to you scripting numerous routines, preset for specific heights, distances and scenarios.
      (*)5. you'll eventually say something to the tune of "Man, there's holes in me... they won't go away.

      a climbing environment, requires you place access blocks directly above the player's head, which will render the north and south buttons arbitrary...try rigging launched animations(consisting of white picts) that unlock the camera and trail in said directions...this will create a peering/looking mechanism/buttons (like mario and other platform games). it also(in addition) requires 2 events, 3 tiles, and one global.

      the first event (off_ladder.cet) checks to see if you've just got off a ladder and changes your 'player map icon' back to normal and sets gb_eLLtitude to 0. else it does nothing, absotively posolutely nothing. this event is placed in the tile before(left of) the ladder, and the tile after (right of) the ladder.

      the second checks to see if you're currently on a ladder ( gb_eLLtitude = 1), if so it does nothing. Else it changes your 'player map icon' to one suitable for climbing.
      tada climbing.

      jumping, animations no matter what the kind can travel through access blocks, (random:and collisions of 0 still collide (however for the most part they do not interact without a player taking action))

      #1 basically create a player animation that takes the desired path, set the collision to follow. makes sure it comes back to the initial point. load this inside a keydown event that 'changes player map icon' to the jump set. have the jump animation change back to the normal animation set in the last frame ...bulletproof.
      (you can append actions to hard wired buttons, such as up/down via the keydown interfaces, global and local...or even better you can call events from animations)

      #2 you have your north animations(ne,nw,nn), you rig it to look like the character is jumping in a given direction up down left right, the collsion sphere is set to follow the player hits up he travels through the frames, the first frame records his position before jumping the last frame returns him to that position...this is sieve like but has potential

      #3 jumping can be accomplished a multitude of ways the point is to keep the camera focused on the animation and not the player(which is of no consequence provided the player jumps in time)...you could very well move the player to some far off and away area on the map using a call event flag in a button triggered animation, launch another animation at those coordinates, and then in the last frames of the animation call him back to his old locale and kill the animation...if you can unlock the camera just right the preceeding would be seemless...this could be used for a multitude of scenarios (read predefined gravity paths...see ***).

      ***predefined gravity paths...your player arrives at a ledge, there is an upper platform and a lower platform, the player has two choices jump and let velocity take him or aim.

      so he uses the mouse he clicks the upper ledge and jumps phew he makes it or damnation he falls.

      here's how,

      the ledge actually has an access block in front of it/around it same as climbing,
      the jumping is actually a spell, that has an animation that looks like the player jumping, the cast event link, changes the player animation to blank, the hit link moves the 'map position' to the ledge, the miss link can do all types of stuff;
      change the player map position
      change his animation to that of him falling
      penalize him health wise for a rough landing,
      make him fall to random logical point

      this spell needs to target what else, an invisible NPC named 'X-marks', the spells needs to definitively kill it in one shot,
      and the distance of the NPC from the ledge should determine its perception stats(and others that determine hit probability)
      the greater the distance the less likely you can make the landing/'spot'. anyway you hash it the hit animation/miss animations need to do something... equally if you've been questioning my every word this could be done using a range weapon, and if you've been paying attention if the weapon falls out of range it just falls, and if it misses, you can allow it to continue on an arching path towards the ground etc.

      coming soon to PDF...

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      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      :: holds encephalograph up to the light::
      diagnosis, stark-raving mad...

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      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      Quote

      Originally posted by ellrx:
      **:: holds encephalograph up to the light::
      diagnosis, stark-raving mad...

      **

      eLL'

      EEG's arent like X-Rays there printed on paper like an 12 lead EKG. (ie a bunch of wavey lines on paper) but I completely agree with your diagnosis.....

      stray

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      Coldstone_Dev Resource: (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/straytoaster/")Coldstone_Dev Resource(/url)

      See Coldstone_Tips at: (url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Playbach:
      **Great thanks to all of you.
      I didn't know that my question would lead to so much interest and comments. I had just follow the "training" to make me aware of the environment. That has lead to many questions about helping my daughter to make her dream reality. But, now that I read your comment that reveal so much difficulties (and confirm my doubts), I wonder if a better dedicated development tool exist on the Mac platform. Perhaps, if Coldstone receives same kind of requests, they could make a tool for that use. I know also Real Basic, but did'nt consider it for my daughter because of the lot of development which would be required to create a "game maker" environment.

      Claude

      **

      After careful reading of the posts, and a bit of research of my own, I find it useful to point you in the direction of TnT BASIC. Although there are certainly many flavors of BASIC out there (visual basic, dark basic, METAL, etc.) TnT has been for me the easiest and friendliest to get into, with a good basic Sprite and Tile system already implemented. The "MOAN" system, a sub-code for handling sprites, can deal with most of the physics of a platformer with very few lines of code -- and examples are provided with the free download.

      There is at least one open-source side-scroller type engine out there. I was following progress on it for a while but I can not find my links to refer you. There are of course many engines of varied levels of accomplishment, ability, and ease of use...Torque, the DOOM open-source, Marathon Infinity, ad nas. So far, however, Coldstone stands head and shoulder above for use of use on the Mac platform.

      With the caveat, of course, that for that true ease of use one needs to be working with the application, not straining overmuch at its envelope. So I agree with the others that your daughter needs to sit back, take a clean sheet of paper, and figure out what it is about "Prince of Persia" she is intrigued by and what she would like to create within her own game. From there she can determine what engine or resources are the best to explore. And if her programming skills are more at the level of Hypercard than C++, Coldstone will likely deserve a second look.

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      Butterfly
      My husband gave his promise
      He would return in the joyous season,
      When robin red-breasts rebuild their nests.

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      Quote

      straytoaster Sez:
      **
      eLL'
      EEG's arent like X-Rays there printed on paper like an 12 lead EKG. (ie a bunch of wavey lines on paper) but I completely agree with your diagnosis.....
      stray
      **

      encephalogram
      [
      4 entries found for encephalogram.
      enｷcephｷaｷloｷgram
      n.

      1. An x-ray picture of the brain taken by encephalography. Also called encephalograph.
      2. See electroencephalogram.
      ](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=encephalogram "External link")

      encephalography
      [
      3 entries found for encephalography.

      enｷcephｷaｷlogｷraｷphy
      n. pl. enｷcephｷaｷlogｷraｷphies

      Radiographic examination of the brain in which some of the cerebrospinal fluid is replaced with air or another gas that acts as a contrasting medium.
      ](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=encephalography "External link")

      radiographic
      [
      4 entries found for radiographic.

      raｷdiｷoｷgraph
      n.

      An image produced on a radiosensitive surface, such as a photographic film, by radiation other than visible light, especially by x-rays passed through an object or by photographing a fluoroscopic image. Also called shadowgraph, skiagram, skiagraph.
      ](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=radiographic "External link")

      Source: The American Heritageｮ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
      Copyright ｩ 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
      Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

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      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      (quote)Originally posted by ellrx:
      **(quote)straytoaster Sez:

      ~sNip
      (/quote) (quote)
      eLL' replys

      ~sNip
      **(/quote)

      Dictionaries may prove to be great resources one day but as for us in the real world when we refer to encephalography we are speaking of 'electroencephalographs' since x-ray encephalographs havent been done since the advent of CAT Scans and MRIs.
      (url="http://"http://www.amershamhealth.com/medcyclopaedia/Volume I/air encephalography.asp")http://www.amershamhealth.com/medcyclopaed...phalography.asp(/url)

      also if you were attemping to diagnosis madness you would use the EEG (which shows the pattern of brain waves) not an x-ray since insanity dosent show up well on film.

      again my thanks for your reseach into this topic,

      stray

      {edit} damn ubb and added link
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      Coldstone_Dev Resource: (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/straytoaster/")Coldstone_Dev Resource(/url)

      See Coldstone_Tips at: (url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

      (This message has been edited by straytoaster (edited 05-05-2003).)

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      the definition stands
      its obsolete not, null and void
      so visibly detectable trauma to the brain plays no role in someone being not in their right mind, or insane.
      a long time ago, when i looked the word up i saw eeg, just as the dictionary definition of encephalogram alludes, and i followed the trail...blah blah blah, dictionaries always make great references, blah blah see below for the full yet brief context in which air encephalograhy was used blah blah abstracct, interpret blah i assume you have a job in the medical profession blah blah much success and happiness:

      mad scientist,
      frankenstein(Mary's Prometheus and "Young") references(abnormal brain, abbynormal),
      my own futility definition,
      then completing my own futile Sisyphus"tic" task

      arcane
      archaic
      science
      symbolism

      you missed the offramp to the RightBrain.

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      ... Hey, This is eLL' I've stopped reading this post, any and all comments/further discussion can be forwarded to my eMail Thank yao. Yo. Yao. yo! Can i write a check? Yo!! Yao! YoooOOooOOOoOOooo! beep

      (This message has been edited by ellrx (edited 05-05-2003).)

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      eLL'

      wasnt try to drive you from this thread. maybe I'm just well read myself. no offence was meant or hopefully taken.

      again I was just commenting on your comment cuz I wasnt able to comment on your post (ie bein social).

      a simple i meant it in a Gothic sorta sense woulda done but qoutin Old Heritage at me allow me to think you werent aware of the obsolesence

      namaste

      stray

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      Coldstone_Dev Resource: (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/straytoaster/")Coldstone_Dev Resource(/url)

      See Coldstone_Tips at: (url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Commander Arashi:
      **After careful reading of the posts, and a bit of research of my own, I find it useful to point you in the direction of TnT BASIC. Although there are certainly many flavors of BASIC out there (visual basic, dark basic, METAL, etc.) TnT has been for me the easiest and friendliest to get into, with a good basic Sprite and Tile system already implemented. The "MOAN" system, a sub-code for handling sprites, can deal with most of the physics of a platformer with very few lines of code -- and examples are provided with the free download.

      There is at least one open-source side-scroller type engine out there. I was following progress on it for a while but I can not find my links to refer you. There are of course many engines of varied levels of accomplishment, ability, and ease of use...Torque, the DOOM open-source, Marathon Infinity, ad nas. So far, however, Coldstone stands head and shoulder above for use of use on the Mac platform.

      With the caveat, of course, that for that true ease of use one needs to be working with the application, not straining overmuch at its envelope. So I agree with the others that your daughter needs to sit back, take a clean sheet of paper, and figure out what it is about "Prince of Persia" she is intrigued by and what she would like to create within her own game. From there she can determine what engine or resources are the best to explore. And if her programming skills are more at the level of Hypercard than C++, Coldstone will likely deserve a second look.

      **

      Thanks a lot, I have some directions now that I could explore to help my daughter.
      Best regards

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