Theres another thread that askes a question about weather or not you will have to use the libraries that cold stone come with and i just have to say one point ....

ITS A RPG ... GRAPHICS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING !!! THE STORY IS WHAT COUNTS !!!!

Yes graphics can be a tool to enhancance the story but really people come on. Every one is so obsesave about the new final fantasy because the graphics as so life like, SO WHAT ! the story probally sucks. i had to make a choice i would pick any of the old 8-bit Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest in Japan) over ANY RPG in the last 5 years! why because the story is so Awsome. granted they use some obsolite play mechancs like ramdom battles but i can look past that. because of the story.

but if grafics really mean that much to you just use Poser to create your grafics, it's so easy a blind-clown can do it!

(edit: edited out swearing) - Necromicon
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(This message has been edited by the Necromicon (edited 11-12-2001).)

Please tone down your language, this is a family board and further similar posts will result in your karma being lowered and the post being deleted. As you're new however, I'll treat this as a warning.

As for your post, I agree to some extent, the story is one of the most important aspects to a RPG (behind gameplay, IMO) but graphics shouldn't be looked over either. If a game looks pretty, more people will download it than if it's a mess of out of shape tiles and pixelated sprites (unless you're doing a SNES-style RPG of course. ;)).

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Ladies and Gentlemen, as you know we have something special for you at
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Let's take it back to the concrete streets, original beats and real live MC's...
"I don't know how radical you are or how radical I am. I am certainly not radical enough; that is, one must always try to be as radical as reality itself" - Lenin

Wow. I'm almost offended by that outburst. Being an artist myself I must say that graphics should not be the lowest on anything. But also I do believe a game with completely outstanding graphics can also have a fantastic plot, the only problem is, lately it hasn't been the case. Sure some of the stories for the really old games as you mentioned before are great, but the graphics were awesome for their time. But looking back and playing them now we think how primitive they are, just like how the most complex graphical games now will be looked back upon in 20 years. So by all means don't put down the graphical elements of games! They are probably the easiest ways of expressing something, and our culture today is extrememly caught up in whats on the outside, the "What You See" portion of everything. So please, please, please develop the most fantastic, greatest story, and by all means, have the best graphics you can create/find/get.

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-Bratt99
Liquid Squid
ProductionsŠ
www.rsad.edu/~bthompso/index.html

I'm sorry totalimmortal, but I have to completely disagree with you to be frank. I don't agree with the way you said it either in that case. Anyway, I go with mostly everthing that Bratt99 said. I DO agree with you, however, on the Poser thing, because I'm using Poser 4 for my graphics and it's working really well. Just so that you know, the reason why people are asking if Coldstone will have a graphics library is because they don't want to make graphics for themselves. So you're actually contradicting yourself with your message because you completely missed the point of what the intentions were of the people that you directed this post at. They are bad at graphics but have a good concept and a good plot. They're gonna take their good ideas and concepts to a good RPG creating tool. They don't wanna worry about graphics because they're focusing on their storyline and plot. They have a disadvantage and were wondering if there were an easy way around it. What you posted and how you posted it just brought forth more arguments because you put way too much opinion into it. On this board, those really irrelavent opinions don't come across well. Especially when it goes against everything that everyone thinks.

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Quote

Originally posted by totalimmortal:
ITS A RPG ... GRAPHICS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING !!! THE STORY IS WHAT COUNTS !!!!

Wow, I haven't seen an outburst that immature since... since... well, anyone remember "death_himself" ?

Anyrate, besides restating what's already been said, you should also realize that what you said is just your opinion, and in my opinion, not a very well developed or informed one.

There are other aspects to what makes a game special, which you left out entirely: gameplay. The main reason I gave up on the FF games after 6 was because they got too flipping boring. You would sit there watching the story develop for fifteen minutes, and really, who cares? Story is one aspect of what makes an RPG/Adventure game special.

Anyone remember the original Legend of Zelda? The graphics suck, and the story is straight out of the can. What made that game so fun and popular was the gameplay. Fallout? The graphics weren't astounding, and I could have done without the voice-overs... what I liked most was the gameplay (plasma rifle!).

RPG/Adventure games aside, how did Tetris get to be so popular? No story there. The graphics? No... well, some versions had fancy backgrounds. The Russian music? No. It was the gameplay.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy a good story as much as any Philip K. D!ck fan. But I don't play games for the story, and I don't know anyone who does... there are these things called books which I turn to for my story fix.

(edited to get a legitimate word around the swear filter... ironic!)
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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.
--
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" --Benjamin Franklin.

(This message has been edited by sanehatter (edited 11-12-2001).)

I like how we can turn a silly violent outburst into a legitimate topic.

I do play certain games for story. I believe in the total package: graphics, gameplay, story, atmosphere. But the number one reason I buy an RPG is to role play, and that requires a good story. The video game, in my opinion, is as legitimate and complex a medium for telling a good story as a novel or movie, and the only reason this may be hard to fathom is that so very few games have handled storytelling with the kind of skill generally seen in other mediums. Shenmue is the only game I can think of right off that has.

I've been wowed by graphics, gameplay, and atmosphere, but the only aspect of a game that has ever floored me was story.

myshkyn

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"I'll give the fans just what they want, and nothing else at all."

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
Wow, I haven't seen an outburst that immature since... since... well, anyone remember "death_himself" ?
<snip>
There are other aspects to what makes a game special, which you left out entirely: gameplay. The main reason I gave up on the FF games after 6 was because they got too flipping boring. You would sit there watching the story develop for fifteen minutes, and really, who cares? Story is one aspect of what makes an RPG/Adventure game special.

Firstly, yes I do remember death_himself.... and his many incarnations. Let's leave it at that.

As to your points about gameplay, I must both agree and disagree. I see story as a vital part of the game, if a game hasn't got a great story, then I am far less likely to be enthralled by it. However, to my mind gameplay can be just as important, I have played many games, such as the Zelda series, which have the old, recycled 'save the world' story but brilliant gameplay. To me, however, gameplay without story is a shallow experience.

Bottom line... yes, I like nice, flashy graphics. But they aren't important, I play many old SNES games, both on my console and my emulator. Some also don't have a fantastic story (a lá Secret of Mana) but are great deal of fun to play. However, I enjoy the ones with story more than those without. For me, a good game needs both great gameplay and an enthralling story. Anything else just isn't as good.

Doesnt' mean I won't play everybody's games, though....

-Andiyar

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"Any good that I may do here, let me do now, for I may not pass this way again"

(Edit: UBB problems /Edit)

(This message has been edited by Tarnćlion Andiyarus (edited 11-12-2001).)

ah, Death_Himself,
that perma-banned freak is still lurking around here,
legend has it if you mention anything about him, he'll
write you an obscene email ( i blocked that chup the 1st time)

graphics simply need to be clean effective, expressive and pleasing(eye candy is optional)

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...go fall on something sharp.

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
**Wow, I haven't seen an outburst that immature since... since... well, anyone remember "death_himself" ?
**

LOL oh yea...although immature, they're fun to read (cuz laughing at taht loser was often a high point of my day heh...however immature that is...)

hehe, anywho,...ya know, it is possible to have a game with good graphics AND a good story...silly concept, I'm sure heh.

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Hail to the king, baby.

I'm an artist too... and to me, the visuals are what totally immerse a person into the game, into the story. Music too. It's things like that give an extra dimension to a game. I've never been one for text-based adventure games. Which, if you take out the graphics, the music, and all of the visual appeal, is all a RPG really is.

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For every beautiful answer there is an even more beautiful question.

Quote

Originally posted by Bean *:
**LOL oh yea...although immature, they're fun to read (cuz laughing at taht loser was often a high point of my day heh...however immature that is...)

**

There's no nead for that, he's allowed his own opinion, even if he can't express it in the way we're used to on the boards. He's a new member, give him a chance.

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Ladies and Gentlemen, as you know we have something special for you at
Birdland this evening. A recording for Blue Note Records...
Let's take it back to the concrete streets, original beats and real live MC's...
"I don't know how radical you are or how radical I am. I am certainly not radical enough; that is, one must always try to be as radical as reality itself" - Lenin