Quote

Originally posted by saphfire:
**Efficient Timers can be done. If they can't, tis a sad day for Coldstone.

Saphfire
**

My last post was addressed to one aspect of game time. And, yes, there are other ways to incorporate the seeming passage of time in a game without using a transformation of the system clock, as was discussed above in this thread.

One way is simply in some way to record the activity of the player by counting appropriate keystrokes or mouse clicks and store the running sum in a Global Variable. Passage of time being movement based.

Again, the Coldstone game engine certainly can do this. But does it?

If it doesn't then we will again be having this discussion; can the user of Coldstone emulate (using Coldstone and its' event/scripting capabilities) this shortcoming of Coldstone as a game engine?

I answer in the negative. Particularly for for/next, while/do event/script constructions. Not because I am familiar with Coldstone but simply because any such device will slow or stop the game for the duration of the loop execution. The game will pause while the clock is being updated. If an activity is to add 2 sec. (or 5 min.) to the game clock then this construction will stop the game for 2 sec. (or 5 min.)

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

(This message has been edited by SkipMeier (edited 08-19-2001).)

I don't know about the rest of you, but if Coldstone doesn't have some sort of efficient timer system built-in, I am simply out of the picture. One less costomer for ambrosia. That is how important timers would be to any one game I make.
Again, if CS has no timers, I quit. No more Coldstone for me.

Quote

Originally posted by Demon:
I don't know about the rest of you, but if Coldstone doesn't have some sort of efficient timer system built-in, I am simply out of the picture. One less costomer for ambrosia. That is how important timers would be to any one game I make.
Again, if CS has no timers, I quit. No more Coldstone for me.

and...so...your point is, was that supposed to be some sort of protest?żż?

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"I'm not imagining things, you bastards deleted my reply, may carpal tunnel befall you all"
~TheChill

Quote

Originally posted by chill_rx:
**and...so...your point is, was that supposed to be some sort of protest?żż?

**

My point is, any game I would make with coldstone would be virtually impossible without timers. If there is no built-in real-time timers(or access to the system clock for use as a timer), I will be leaving the CS community, and will not be useing CS.
I am just pointing out that timers are extremely vital to several games, and without them, Ambrosia will lose at least one somewhat valuable customer, and probably more unless there are timers.

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Originally posted by Demon:
**

Quote

Originally posted by chill_rx:
**and...so...your point is, was that supposed to be some sort of protest?żż?

**

My point is, any game I would make with coldstone would be virtually impossible without timers. If there is no built-in real-time timers(or access to the system clock for use as a timer), I will be leaving the CS community, and will not be useing CS.
I am just pointing out that timers are extremely vital to several games, and without them, Ambrosia will lose at least one somewhat valuable customer, and probably more unless there are timers.**

i hate to say it, but... i agree. i think timers are a necessity...

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DeAdBoY-
(url="http://"http://www.grybs.com/harzius")Harzius Productions(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.IcedEarth.com")Iced Earth(/url)

Not to intrude, but I'm a little confused.

Game concept looks great. Would love to see/use/play with it.

If the game engine is event driven, then relative timing should not be a problem. You should be able to create fuse objects, which 'burn' at relative rates as the game progresses. Used to do this in text adventures all the time (anyone know TADS?) Or triggers, which can 'light' certain kinds of fuses.

But, if you are hot to make arcade style games, then real time enters the picture, and yeah, hooks to the OS would be nice for that.

Quote

Originally posted by DeAdBoY:
**i hate to say it, but... i agree. i think timers are a necessity...

**

I think parties are a necessity, but no one cares...

(Sidenote: Don't follow up this post, any more discussion on such dead topics is pointless.)

Saphfire

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Quote

Originally posted by nasadude:
**Not to intrude, but I'm a little confused.

.snip...

If the game engine is event driven, then relative timing should not be a problem. You should be able to create fuse objects, which 'burn' at relative rates as the game progresses. Used to do this in text adventures all the time (anyone know TADS?) Or triggers, which can 'light' certain kinds of fuses.

...snip.**

Text adventure games... these games move forward as the player types in commands. All that is needed is a counter that counts player turns and after so many turns something happens. A relative sense of time has passed-- the number of 'return key' presses by the player.

A graphic, tile-based RPG is much different. What is there to count? The number of times the player presses an 'arrow key' or some other command key? The number of times the player presses the mouse button? Or both? Or count the number of tiles crossed as the player moves around? Nome of these action/activities are 'event based'. So just keep track of the number of events that are triggered? Or number of battles fought?

In an event driven game engine, the only method built-in is counting the number of events. All of the other player activities would not take time.

Unless Coldstone has internal built-in counters for the other possibilities (and gives the Coldstone user access to same), the only other possibility is accessing/using the system clock for a mock real time game. If none of this is provided the user of Coldstone, then the games produced will not give the player a sense of time passing (day/night for example).

Simply counting events will give a very inconsistent sense of time passing and also would require that only events triggered by the player could trigger time based events.

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

To those who would leave the <<non -existant>> coldstone community <<which comprises of a single webboard and resides soley within your mind>> ... good bye .

Besides the point the coldstone game engine cannot be all things to all people ,if your beloved game <<which you overdeveloped , making it in flexible , unadaptable , fixed , and completely dependent on the use of a feature , that does not exist and to you cannot be simulated through the use of a pseudo technique>> cannot be made then i suggest you either adjust it ... make a suggestion for the next version ... or move on silently without your incessant and rampant whining and bellyaching ;

""boo hoo, it doesn't have what i want , boo hoo it might cost too much .... boo hoo you won't tell me everything when i demand it"

::disgusted ,dissapates::

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"I'm not imagining things, you bastards deleted my reply, may carpal tunnel befall you all"
~TheChill

There is something that can be used to create a sort-of timer. The proof? Watch how HP recovery items work in PoG. Eat an item, and the hp pops up at fairly regular intervals. I believe that whatever mechanism is behind this can be used to create a rudimentary timer.

Quote

Originally posted by A.C.:
There is something that can be used to create a sort-of timer. The proof? Watch how HP recovery items work in PoG. Eat an item, and the hp pops up at fairly regular intervals. I believe that whatever mechanism is behind this can be used to create a rudimentary timer.

Yes, Coldstone's game engine (that becomes the core of every Coldstone game) does have a built-in clock and the game engine produces timed screen activity. There is also animation.

The question that was asked many times and many ways was addressing the issue of whether or not the user of Coldstone has direct access to any sort of built-in timers or clocks. My comments are, once again, simply this:

If the user of Coldstone does not have direct access and control of any of the built-in timing functions or clocks, then it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to construct such by using Coldstone events or loops to create 'time-based events', day/night changes or 'duration effects'.

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

My point was that if the user can create an item that will regularly increment the HP, it should be trivial to create an item that increments a user controlled clock variable.

A lot of the implementation details will have to wait until the release to be fully explained, though. One idea is that the script that increments the clock will have a list of scripts to be run when the clock reaches certain values. Or create a character with an animation that takes 10 sec to complete, have it increment a clock when it finishes, and then restart the animation. I'm sure there are other ways too.

Even if ColdStone doesn't hand us a timer on a silver platter, it is still possible for a clever programmer to create one.

Maybe I should just wait til the (d*mn) thing releases.
But, I've been thinking that perhaps CS is not the thing I want to use for a game. I mean, sure you can make a seemingly unique interface for each of your games, with music, sounds, etc. to suit your tastes, but every week, another thing is found out about it through beta people either not talking, or not talking the way we want to hear it, and one or more possible users of CS decide that it doesn't fit thier game. Now my turn for that has come. Heh. Anyways, I'm thinking that Realmz's scinario development system is fitting my game a whole hell of a lot better then CS, plus I can run Divinity in my old 68k(I think, pretty sure). I will make a choice on it when my Fantasoft CD arrives in the mail and I get to try out the Divinity demo(which will give me a feel for the real thing, unlike talking to beta-ers who won't let us know anything).

Still, I'll stick around until I get to try out a demo/unregistered CS and see if it will fit me any better then I currently think it will.

But I must say that timers appear to be the single most vital point in any game that I've heard about, that is so shady about whether or not users can make effective timers easily(having them on a silver platter would be great ), that about a quarter of the potential users seem to not be able to make thier idea work with it.

Also, as to what chill_rx said about our game ideas beging fixed and unchangeable, I say go take a look in the CS FAQs. Last time I checked, it said(not quoting it, tho) that CS will be like a piece of paper, upon which you can make your game exactly how you want it. Basically, everything the bate testers have told us counters that statement, saying that CS is close to being as stiff as a board, and that instead, we'll have to change our ideas juat to get them to work. That makes me sick. Maybe someone whould change the FAQs(as well as the CS intro text in the 'upcoming' page) to tell potential users that thier ideas must fit exactly to CS's parameters, and that when they finish making thier game(which they likely won't), it will bear almost no resemblance to thier original idea, and that if they make $10 off of it, then they're the luckiest person in the entire knowledge of coldstone(would have said CS community, but, you all read chill_rx's post).