In cold sovereign voice Chilllll!
:: casts snowball,carves giant smile in it ::
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Anyhow, anything such as buying rations,daily memorization of spells, magically declined characters,having to cast illuminate/light, Casting identify for any other purpose than to see if the enemy is weak against something or close to being defeated are giagantic pains in the butt.

What features should be toned-down, excluded or tweaked ?
cough Random Battlescough

I know there are numerous but be brief.

Yeah it's good to be back, but who made GlueBubble a moderator :frown:

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"With an icy glare of indignity..."

CHILL!!.........your......your.......BACK! ahh! :o.....ok im better now.....

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"You must hear the universal call to like your neighbor just like you like to be liked yourself"-President Elect George W. Bush

• (url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/mac/startupsoftware")Startup Software(/url)

• (url="http://"mailto:aanhorn@angelfire.com")mailto:aanhorn@angelfire.com(/url)aanhorn@angelfire.com

Now, I'm irritated by having to do little menial tasks in my games as much as the next guy, but some people do like these things. If you're one of them, I encourage you to just do what you like! Maybe less people will like the game, (MAYBE), but the people who share your tastes will be happier. And you really don't know how to please anyone more than someone who shares your tastes. This is especially important with the slew of games that are coming out...yeah, maaan just feel the groove of your true nature...

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"Well you know that it's a fool who playes it cool by making his world a little colder."

Well, it's your game. Do whatever you like.

-cybergnu

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"The Gnuey Boy"

Quote

Originally posted by the Chill:
**
In cold sovereign voice Chilllll!
:: casts snowball,carves giant smile in it ::
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**

I don't think we needed that.

Quote

**
Anyhow, anything such as buying rations,daily memorization of spells, magically declined characters,having to cast illuminate/light, Casting identify for any other purpose than to see if the enemy is weak against something or close to being defeated are giagantic pains in the butt.

What features should be toned-down, excluded or tweaked ?
cough Random Battlescough

I know there are numerous but be brief.

**

I like buying rations, it makes sense, and adds a bit of depth to the game. I'm not a big fan of continually relearning either, although I can see it used to good effect in certain situations. Illuminate is alright, as well as identify, as it is used in Diablo. Random battles?

Quote

**
Yeah it's good to be back, but who made GlueBubble a moderator**

when he says random battles he means like in Pokemon or FF7 or something where you're walking around in the wilderness, no monsters around, and then suddenly the screen blurs and some little furry thing beats you into a bloody pulp. Its kinda LAME.

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"Do you expect me to talk?"
"Why no Mr. Bond! I expect you to die!"

Quote

when he says random battles he means like in Pokemon or FF7 or something where you're walking around in the wilderness, no monsters around, and then suddenly the screen blurs and some little furry thing beats you into a bloody pulp. Its kinda LAME.

yeah, but it's a cheap way to add play time to your game; thirty hours of play time requires some careful plot construction and a lot of planning and thinking about where things go.

Even a games as well constructed as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or Vagrant Story, which do not utilize 'random' battles per se, force you to fight things you've killed before when you go through an area again (and don't get me started on the Anju/Kaefi quest in Majora's Mask, either...).

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--You notice that you have been turned into a pile of ashes.

I disagree with random battles, they are time consuming and frustrating to the player. I prefer this system- your are wandering around in the wilderness you catch site of an enemy party on your screen, they will then either chase you and fight you (if they can catch you), or run away, based on your parties strength. It at least gives you limited control over when you fight or not. And its not like players will never bother to fight..they need the experience points.

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"You must hear the universal call to like your neighbor just like you like to be liked yourself"-President Elect George W. Bush

• (url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/mac/startupsoftware")Startup Software(/url)

• (url="http://"mailto:aanhorn@angelfire.com")mailto:aanhorn@angelfire.com(/url)aanhorn@angelfire.com

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
**Even a games as well constructed as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or Vagrant Story, which do not utilize 'random' battles per se, force you to fight things you've killed before when you go through an area again (and don't get me started on the Anju/Kaefi quest in Majora's Mask, either...).

**

Those 'random battles' are the main focus of Pokémon and Majora's Mask. In Pokémon, the game would be impossible without them because your creatures would be weak from no one to battle but fellow trainers, once they are gone there is no one left to battle except wild Pokémon. As for Majora's Mask, the 72 hours are supposed to be the same every time. That's what makes it different from others. If games like that do not appeal to you, then don't buy them. Personaly, I like the fact that you can go battle the bosses more than once(but the originals were so much cooler).

What's wrong with Anju and Kafei, hmm? That took weeks to figure out. That's what makes a game good; a game that the $50 to $70 you paid for it isn't wasted by beating it the first day you get it, rather it takes a long time to solve.
I really should be posting this stuff on the Zelda topic though...

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- Corey, the true master of all things Pokémon and EV
better dead than confed!!
long live the rebellion!!

I would say that totally random battles are indeed a bad thing... the sort where you can walk around a small room in circles for hours, and fight a never-ending swarm of near-identical enemies. (If nothing else, it makes "automated level building" a little bit too easy.) I much prefer the Zelda/Chrono Trigger system, where, in a given area, there are a certain number of enemies of a specific set of types. Once you defeat those, the area is, at least temporarily, safe to travel. Of course, they may be replaced or replenished once you leave the area, but that's fair enough, in my opinion.

...Of course, what would be really nice, though unlikely to happen anytime soon, I think, would be for an RPG to have "smart" enemies like some of today's FPS are starting to develop -- enemies that, when you attack them, call for reinforcement from the next group of foes that's waiting for you just down the hallway a bit further... Or foes that flee, duck into that "healing spring" you just left, then ambush you from behind a little later on...

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“If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?” - T.H. Huxley

I don't think there should be a Pokémon-like battle system for random battles, what I would like is there are enemies around, you can see them, and you can run away, fight them, do whatever, and once you have cleared the area, they replenish in a logical way; there also should be specific character enemies that you can encounter in the wilderness.

-cybergnu

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"The Gnuey Boy"

yeah like Baldur's Gate... but those skeletons in that large chamber under candlekeep MUST CONTROL DESTRUCTIVE POWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"Do you expect me to talk?"
"Why no Mr. Bond! I expect you to die!"

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
**Even a games as well constructed as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or Vagrant Story, which do not utilize 'random' battles per se, force you to fight things you've killed before when you go through an area again (and don't get me started on the Anju/Kaefi quest in Majora's Mask, either...).
**

I never figured that quest out. i only got kafei's mask...oh well...

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I realized the minute I fell into the fissure that the book would not be destroyed as I had planned. It continued falling into that starry expanse, of which I had only a fleeting glimpse. I have tried to speculate where it had landed, but I must admit that such a conjecture is futile. Still, questions about whose hands might one day hold my Myst book are unsettling to me. I know my apprehensions might never be allayed, and so I close, realizing that perhaps the end has not yet been written... --Atrus

Quote

Originally posted by GameFanatic:
**I never figured that quest out. i only got kafei's mask...oh well...

**

It takes a long time...there are 7-8 steps you have to do, plus some things you can't do, just to get the Couple's Mask which only does one thing. It's a bad reward, but I think the designers meant for the prize to be the feeling of finishing something as hard as that. Of course if someone tells you what to do this effect is lost on the player, for they essentially did nothing more than follow simple instructions.

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- Corey, the true master of all things Pokémon and EV
better dead than confed!!
long live the rebellion!!

1. I actually liked Majora's Mask, moreso than Ocarina of Time. I wasn't saying that I thought the 72hour system was bad (quite the contrary, I found it very innovative), but that I found it rather frustrating having to fight the Snowhead Temple boss for the eighth time because I was trying to get the gold dust/get another heart container piece/Re-Unite the frogs/etc, especially since that battle was more drawn-out than it needed to be.

2. Figuring out Anju/Kaefi wasn't so difficult or frustrating for me, but having to do the whole thing over and over and over because I kept alerting the stupid theif to my presence when going to meet Kaefi on the third night got really old after a while. I almost gave up because it seemed logistically impossible to get there before the thief.

3. I think the Zelda thing is somewhat relevant so long as we talk about annoying aspects of games. I personally would prefer to play a game so well crafted that it didn't need to rely on random battles or unjustified repetition, and I've been thinking about how to avoid putting them in mine, but like I said, these are cheap ways to add play time.

4. I agree wholeheartedly that improved AI for monsters to call re-inforcements is a good thing. Depending on how the morale system for enemies works in Coldstone, we might be able to hack something similar together using events and such, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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--You notice that you have been turned into a pile of ashes.

I hated the gold dust thing. I was about to get the gilded sword, but there wasn't enough time, so i went back in time, and, of course, the dust disappeared.

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I know Kung Fu.~Keanu Reeves
~Nick

Quote

Originally posted by nwa728:
**I hated the gold dust thing. I was about to get the gilded sword, but there wasn't enough time, so i went back in time, and, of course, the dust disappeared.

**

you know its not that hard to get the gold dust again, and beating goht is a breeze. (theres the easy way and the fun way. easy way = shooting wtih magical arrows, fun way = rolling after him as spiked goron)

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"Keep looking shocked, and move slowly towards the cake."

I know, but don't you have to beat the whole temple over?

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I know Kung Fu.~Keanu Reeves
~Nick

Ok, moving back to Coldstone COUGH COUGH

Yeah so something I think that should definitely not be added is like 10 second long battle music that just repeats and repeats and repeats and repeats while you're fighting a monster. That is what ultimately made me quit FF7. Sure the battle music was decent in that game, for the first 5 times, then------ wow it just kept going. Now the boss music was a lot of fun, it didn't repeat as visibly. And always make different battle music when facing a "boss" monster(there has to be a better word........).

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"Do you expect me to talk?"
"Why no Mr. Bond! I expect you to die!"

I disagree with random battles, they are time consuming and frustrating to the player. I prefer this system- your
are wandering around in the wilderness you catch site of an enemy party on your screen, they will then either chase
you and fight you (if they can catch you), or run away, based on your parties strength. It at least gives you limited
control over when you fight or not. And its not like players will never bother to fight..they need the experience
points."

Do You mean as in Grandia, rent it or get it for the PC...

Thank you,Lorenoth (There's plenty of Board's for Zelda/Pokémon)....

You raise a good point with the discussion of Battle music(game music in general), which after a while is reduced to a searing ditty in the back of your mind.
(I hate it I mute the music and put in a CD leaving the SFX on)

Oh Identify saved my life in FF7 (I mean SENSE )

Any other disliked features, so far we have :

Random Battles
Menial tasks (like in Tomba,Zelda...do this,to get that,trade,repeat ??)
Huge dynamic puzzles that stress you out for weeks
new The Start of the Game set-up (like the 30-1hr minutes it takes to meet everyone, get armor,test battle features, etc.)
new unoriginal/limited variety of monsters ("now he's red/blue and twice as strong, oooh")

- 29°

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"With an icy glare of indignity..."