If we make the games, shouldn't we get the money from 'em? All's well that ends well but after we pay the price for coldstone, (that cuts into game boy advance money) why should we have to pay for marketing? brings out a large suitcase not that im low on cash suitcase opens, shows more cash than Bill ever had

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(i) The Dursleys had not changed much in the ten years that had passed, the only thing that was different was the pictures on the wall. Before, they looked like a pink beach ball wearing different colored bobble hats. (i)

Umm...you DO get the money for them. Where'd you hear otherwise? You can market them yourself, or submit them to Ambrosia to market upon approval, but of course they would get a cut. Marketing costs you know, as does a familiar brand name.

Saphfire

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sorry! someone said in another topic in this place that we would have to pay for licencing rights, or something.... thanx

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(i) The Dursleys had not changed much in the ten years that had passed, the only thing that was different was the pictures on the wall. Before, they looked like a pink beach ball wearing different colored bobble hats. (i)

That is correct. Since Coldstone games use an engine programmed by Beenox and distributed by Ambrosia, if you wish to sell your game, you will probably have to give them a cut of the profits. If you distribute your game for free, you probably won't.

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Back in my day, we didn't have any of this here UBB nonsense. It was DiscBoard or nothing, and we liked it!
Irony: "I don't want a flame war, you obnoxious SOB." - chill_rx
"LOOK OUT , here comes big strong GLENN" - chill_rx

Quote

Originally posted by Glenn:
**That is correct. Since Coldstone games use an engine programmed by Beenox and distributed by Ambrosia, if you wish to sell your game, you will probably have to give them a cut of the profits. If you distribute your game for free, you probably won't.

**

That doesn't make much sense. Industry standard programs like File Maker and such roll the licensing fee into the cost of the program. It would seem unprofessional to me to do otherwise. Unless of course, Ambrosia markets the game.
Another thing: completed games aren't going to require a slash screen that says "Made with Coldstone" are they?

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You're never too old to be a Super Mario fan.

Out of curiosity, why does this sort of licensing agreement strike you as unprofessional?

In any case, as I see it, Ambrosia/Beenox has three choices:

1. Charge a relatively low fee for the use of the Coldstone editor, and add a licensing fee for the fairly small fraction of Coldstone users who a) make a finished product and wish to charge others for it.

2. Charge a higher fee across the board, so that the hobbyist or plug-in maker pays the same fee for Coldstone as does the professional who's making the next Exile.

3. Sell Coldstone under multiple licenses, such as a cheap "hobbyist" license that forbids the commercial sale of any games created, and a more expensive "pro" license that permits commercial sales.

To me, the first makes the most sense and seems fairest to the end user. It's worth noting that FileMaker, which you mentioned, actually comes closest to the third license. However, a purchase of "FileMaker Developer" is usually made either by a corporation (to whom cost is less of an issue) or by a professional who knows more or less precisely what needs to be done and who will use the finished product. I would suggest that the average Coldstone user fits neither of the above categories, and so would benefit from the most flexible license, #1.

Of course, this is all just idle speculation really, since the license agreement has not been finalized as far as I am aware. So who knows, you may turn out to be right and I wrong after all!

PS: I would expect that you're required to include some sort of credit for using the engine. I don't know if a full splash-screen would be needed; it's quite possible that a "Made with Coldstone" note in the Read Me and in the "About this game..." dialog would be sufficient. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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Back in my day, we didn't have any of this here UBB nonsense. It was DiscBoard or nothing, and we liked it!
Irony: "I don't want a flame war, you obnoxious SOB." - chill_rx
"LOOK OUT , here comes big strong GLENN" - chill_rx

Given the situation at hand, I think the first method is the best, and from what I've seen, is probably how Coldstone will be released. BUT, that is just speculation.

I know it has been stated that if you release your game as freeware, you won't need to pay licensing fees.

As far as licensing fees go, it's actually pretty common for development kits to charge licensing fees. Considering that Coldstone is a full-blown game engine and creator, it seems reasonable that its licensing fees might be a little higher than, say, a C++ library for doing some spiffy three-dee thing. However, I beleive that most game libraries of that sort usually end up costing up front just as much as Codewarrior if not more, and in any case more than Coldstone.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

Quote

Originally posted by Glenn:
**PS: I would expect that you're required to include some sort of credit for using the engine. I don't know if a full splash-screen would be needed; it's quite possible that a "Made with Coldstone" note in the Read Me and in the "About this game..." dialog would be sufficient. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

**

from the little snippits I've heard while testing PoG, I think some sort of splash screen is required. Or, if not that, than at least something on your title screen to indicate it. I'm not really sure though. if that is true, I hope they don't make a standardized label required. I'd rather create a more personal "Made with Coldstone" for each game.

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Do not follow me for I may not lead. Do not lead for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
-Jedi

Originally posted by Glenn:

Out of curiosity, why does this sort of licensing agreement strike you as unprofessional?

From experience, mainly. Most major development tools I've used have a flat licensing fee. Taking a cut of the profits will drive away many who consider Coldstone an alternative to hiring a programmer. Those are the people they should be catering to, because they will be the ones with the amazing games that will bring droves to Coldstone.

**In any case, as I see it, Ambrosia/Beenox has three choices:

1. Charge a relatively low fee for the use of the Coldstone editor, and add a licensing fee for the fairly small fraction of Coldstone users who a) make a finished product and wish to charge others for it.

2. Charge a higher fee across the board, so that the hobbyist or plug-in maker pays the same fee for Coldstone as does the professional who's making the next Exile.

3. Sell Coldstone under multiple licenses, such as a cheap "hobbyist" license that forbids the commercial sale of any games created, and a more expensive "pro" license that permits commercial sales.

To me, the first makes the most sense and seems fairest to the end user. It's worth noting that FileMaker, which you mentioned, actually comes closest to the third license. However, a purchase of "FileMaker Developer" is usually made either by a corporation (to whom cost is less of an issue) or by a professional who knows more or less precisely what needs to be done and who will use the finished product. I would suggest that the average Coldstone user fits neither of the above categories, and so would benefit from the most flexible license, #1.**

You can sell your FileMaker programs royalty free no matter what version you have. Developer just enables you to create stand alone applications.

**Of course, this is all just idle speculation really, since the license agreement has not been finalized as far as I am aware. So who knows, you may turn out to be right and I wrong after all!:)

PS: I would expect that you're required to include some sort of credit for using the engine. I don't know if a full splash-screen would be needed; it's quite possible that a "Made with Coldstone" note in the Read Me and in the "About this game..." dialog would be sufficient. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
**

I hope it's not too much. A splash screen when you open and close the program would seem very tacky for an application that bills itself as "Creating professional looking games."

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You're never too old to be a Super Mario fan.

D**n cookies aren't working again...

Anyways, if there is a pict or something in the splash that says "Made with Coldstone Game Engine" then you could replace it with your own and just put the "made with CS" thing in your "read-me"s, info boxes, comments, etc. and I doubt Ambrosia would give you much trouble. Just make sure that you put it somewhere where it will be seen.

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I hope to regain Crawler's trust and the little bit of respect he may have had for me. One day...
Go to the (url="http://"http://yoshi.zzux.com/phpbb")unoffical EV webboards(/url).
Or go to my smaller and somewhat less populated board, (url="http://"http://pub101.ezboard.com/bmousesboards")Mouse's Boards(/url)!

actually, I think that most video games use splash screens. When I think back to all the times I've pushed power on a sega genesis, the first thing I see is the "SEGA" splash screen followed by the developer's screen, and then the publisher, and then finally the game. Now, there is only one company that developed the game, yet there are (at least) 3 splash screens. And I don't think that this is limited to the Genesis. Every console does this ( I think) and many computer game companies do too.

atsumori

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and really, having a splash screen required makes sense. Ambrosia and Beenox are the ones who made it possible, they deserve advertising space.

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Evil is as Evil does

Quote

Originally posted by atsumori:
**Every console does this ( I think) and many computer game companies do too.
**

right you are.

Quote

Originally posted by Lorenoth:
**and really, having a splash screen required makes sense. Ambrosia and Beenox are the ones who made it possible, they deserve advertising space.
**

I wasn't arguing the necessity of giving credit where credit is due. I was just stating (very casually, so as not to raise a ruckus) that I'd preffer to make my own ColdStone seal for every game I make, instead of using the a genaric ColdStone logo. I know that's a very small matter, and I doubt ASW will have any problem with details like that. Just makin' conversation until we hit on another 100+ post debate.

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Do not follow me for I may not lead. Do not lead for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
-Jedi

Just as a quick mention, I find the Coldstone screen that comes with PoG to be very nicely done.

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Will I be the willow or the rod? You decide.

true 'dat

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Do not follow me for I may not lead. Do not lead for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
-Jedi

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
As far as licensing fees go, it's actually pretty common for development kits to charge licensing fees. Considering that Coldstone is a full-blown game engine and creator, it seems reasonable that its licensing fees might be a little higher than, say, a C++ library for doing some spiffy three-dee thing. However, I beleive that most game libraries of that sort usually end up costing up front just as much as Codewarrior if not more, and in any case more than Coldstone.

You are correct here. Before the days of OpenGL, it was not uncommon for even simple 3d graphics API's to cost several thousand dollars up front and charge royalties. Whatever the cost of Coldstone, trust me, you're getting a deal.

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We shall accept payment in a large briefcase. American dollar good for this purpose. LARGE briefcase, remember. -- forge

Quote

Originally posted by Gravitation:
**You are correct here. Before the days of OpenGL, it was not uncommon for even simple 3d graphics API's to cost several thousand dollars up front and charge royalties. Whatever the cost of Coldstone, trust me, you're getting a deal.
**

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...76 trombones in the big parade...

hmm... of course they need to get some of the money for it... I mean... they made it possible for us to make the game in the first place

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http://pub73.ezboard.com/borderofchaosonline)Order of Chaos online://http://pub73.ezboard.com/borderofch...of Chaos online

They do get money for it...when you register. Coldstone is their product, they are entitled to charge for it. Our games are our products, we should be entitled to charge for them, although that is not always the case. Although Ambrosia/Beenox provides the tools, they do not provide the game. They do not help us develop the game, therefore it is not theirs. Since they do make compilation possible, they have the right to charge royalty and liscencing fees, but I wouldn't recommend it (as if you care what I think).

Saphfire

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