I fully understand the need for private testing, especially during the early development months. However, when programming draws to a close, is there a chance for a public beta? Perhaps this is my anticipation for a product in whose faith has been fully realized and finally revitalized, perhaps it is the senses in me trying to give my fans and friends something solid other than ideas and promises. I am preparing in every way I can to weave the method of my imagination, but that can only take me so far. I am eager for it's arrival. If a public beta is not possible, so be it. If you cannot comment at this time, that is fine as well. But please, carry on.

~Saphfire

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I can't speak for ambrosia, but considering that it is already in b3, and the hassle required to add a flood of new people to the list, I would doubt it.

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Apple Computer - The name of microsoft's research and development division
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Make sure you visit the Coldstone Hotline Server run by GlueBubble. The IP is:
65.4.86.190

Of course I have no say in the decision, but it wouldn't really be a bug fix/ suggestion beta, but more of a learning curve, to get people familiar with the engine and start producing. As it would be public, there would be no need for a list. Also, could you make the previous betas open for public or private download? I realize that they may not be stable, may not have all features, and are not updated, but if possible, I would like to use them to test the waters and make a few screenshots. Just tell me what you think.

~Saphfire

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uh... the whole idea of a beta is the feedback. Otherwise, it's just giving away copies of the editor for free, even if they aren't quite up-to date copies. Most companies don't start giving away v5 of their software as soon as v6 comes out, especially if you can still be productive with v5. Hell, if I could get my hands on the last copy of a beta before the product's release, I'd probably never buy the product.

I'd like to get started learning too, but there's just no way that we're getting our hands on any of the recent betas. And if there is a chance of such a thing happening, ASW is a bunch of crazies. Good crazies; but crazies none the less.

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Do not follow me for I may not lead. Do not lead for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
-Jedi

I sincerely doubt something like this is going to happen. Begging isn't going to change anything.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

I wasn't begging, just asking. If they had said yes, perhaps responses would have been of a different color.

~Saphfire

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One suggestion; wait for final, apreciate the final, report ANY problems you find in the final. I've been in many private beta tests, sent in feedback, watched them mature, go into public beta, get a flood of new people. New people who don't report bugs, people who don't produce or contribute, people who give out secrets, keep bugs a secret because they work in a player's favor, and so on.

Let me talk about a public beta, (url="http://"http://www.oberin.com")Oberin(/url). It's free, it will be free when it goes final, it will be free until the people who operate the servers can't afford to do it at expense anymore. It is a developing online RPG, and various things have changed since beta one. Now, players aren't allowed to attack other players, or even sick monsters on them. Not at all. When Oberin beta was first brought to a select few, players could attack eachother, but just not in town. There was a spell that didn't directly attack players, but simply left a trap. People used this constantly to murder in town. Now, players just leave traped bags of gold, release hostile monsters next to another player, or steal from the player to invoke a legal fight, then attack.

My charicter murders, steals, carrys impossible ammounts of weight, and many other things that I'm tempted not to report, but I do. Before a game is ready for the general public, it must be balenced, fair, enjoyable, and free of harmful bugs and errors. Otherwise, no one would find such a game worth paying for, and both PoG and CGE will be commercial quality prouducts.

Once something goes into public beta, it's as if the developers forfiet most of their means of feedback. In every beta I've seen, there are people who just want to use the program for free and forget making it better. Which is why public betas are so often available for paying customers only. Such is the case with hera, you can't use addons or scenarios for Ares made by hera, unless you register ares.

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A large group of empire soldiers guards the bridge to make sure no slimes reach the city. Not being slimes, you are allowed to pass without comment.

Sorry about that then, I guess I'm just cynical. I fully intend to purchase Coldstone if it is a good product, which, from the movie, looks to be (perhaps we could see a battle sequence next?). I was just interested because I have many things already worked out and want to see it in action. I'm much like a director in that, I work much better seeing things flow. I also don't want to spend more precious development time just learning how to do things in Coldstone, customizing it, and setting up menial things like stats. As for the bug reports, although I doubt there would be any that could be to the player's advantage in an editor in any way (besides security problems), I do see how it could create turmoil. If they did release a public beta, they could simply disable the compiler so nobody could actually make a working game with it. But, on everything, you've made your point, so no more on this subject. Is there perhaps any way to release sections of the editor, such as the stat editor, so we can get, what I consider boring, tasks out of the way?

~Saphfire

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Quote

Originally posted by saphfire:
**... I also don't want to spend more precious development time just learning how to do things in Coldstone, customizing it, and setting up menial things like stats.
**

You're going to have to do this whether there's a public beta or not. On the plus side, Coldstone's interface is such that this won't take very long at all to do.

Quote

...If they did release a public beta, they could simply disable the compiler so nobody could actually make a working game with it.

How would you "see things in action" if you couldn't run the game?

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“If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?” - T.H. Huxley

Or maybe make it more like a preview demo? Run games, but not save them?

Well, I'm not a beta tester, and I still stand by my point. Everyone wants to be able to use a program as soon as they hear about it and like it, but there will be many frustrating problems. Public betas can eat up your intrest in something simply by frustrating you to the point where you think it's a sorry piece of junk. All betas have bugs, some are worse than others. If there is a public beta, it won't be until CGE is:

first; totally feature-complete, no longer making any serious additions to the game unless needed.

and

second; completely free of all major bugs such as ones that would screw up your computer, or delete your months' work.

Remember, every time you make a major change in a beta, you're back to the start of testing. If the interface is changed, the engine is changed, or just a feature being added, that has every chance of having major errors. Which is why public betas are only for making completely sure something is ready to sell, and I don't think either ASW or Beenox is anxious to give out free "public beta" copies to all of the future customers.

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A large group of empire soldiers guards the bridge to make sure no slimes reach the city. Not being slimes, you are allowed to pass without comment.

saphfire, wouldn't people just use some other compiler?

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A large group of empire soldiers guards the bridge to make sure no slimes reach the city. Not being slimes, you are allowed to pass without comment.

Quote

Originally posted by Madman:
**saphfire, wouldn't people just use some other compiler?

**

I'm no expert on this matter, but it has already been dicussed that you will not be able to edit the actual source code, so I'm sure there is some way to make this impossible.

~Saphfire

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There will be no public beta of Coldstone, nor of Pillars of Garendall.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.