I just read Madman's topic "Looking for artist", and I saw it'll take about 1 or 2 years in order to create a "Real" RPG. I quite agree with this idea, does it mean Coldstone won't be hard but will be very long to create a game ?

For example, if I want to create a dungeon, and when the Pc enters this dungeon, he get teleported in a forest in order to pass a special test ( a fight...). If he wins, he get teleported back to the dungeon, and as soon as he enter the next room, 3 coffins open and 3 skulls attack him. How long will it take, knowing that the example is playable in... 15 minuts ?

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Welcome in the dark side...

(This message has been edited by Dark Madman (edited 02-20-2001).)

Well, this sounds similiar to when people say that EV TCs take close to a year to make. This is only true if you are working maybe a half hour a day and aren't really working hard. My advice, stay organized and if you decide you are going to work on your game today, then work hard. Bear down on it and you'd be surprised how much you can get done.

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Apple Computer - The name of microsoft's research and development division
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Make sure you visit the Coldstone Hotline Server run by GlueBubble. The IP is:
65.4.86.190

Quote

Originally posted by Dark Madman:
**For example, if I want to create a dungeon, and when the Pc enters this dungeon, he get teleported in a forest in order to pass a special test ( a fight...). If he wins, he get teleported back to the dungeon, and as soon as he enter the next room, 3 coffins open and 3 skulls attack him. How long will it take, knowing that the example is playable in... 15 minuts ?
**

That's a very interesting question. The answer depends a lot on the experience of the end user however.

I guess this particular example would take me about 1 hours to do with everything working and packaged into a stand-alone game. It would take an experimented Coldstone user about 3 hours maybe and a novice user could spend a least two days to make everything works fine since this example uses a lot of different things like NPCs, events, items, maps,... (plus at least three days figuring all the details that another more advanced user would have known from the beginning - like how to make the player starts in a map). Of course, this is only a guess and this depends on so much factor (user experience of Coldstone, user ingenuity, etc.).

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Dee Brown
Coldstone Game Engine developer
Beenox inc. - (url="http://"http://www.beenox.com")www.beenox.com(/url)

there's also one more big group of factors involved in the time it will take to make anything in ColdStone: graphics + sound + story. If you're just using the built in graphics, your example might take only a day to make. but if you want to make your own graphics, set up a story behind why this person has found himself in a dungeon, and then create your own SFX... well, it could take a month. However, the good thing about this stuff is: you only have to make it once. after you've done all your graphics, you're done with all your graphics (unless you're like most of us and want to change everything twenty times). you don't have to deal with it the next time you want to use it: just pop the finished work in on the next chapter or whatever.

I think that when Madman said "1 to 2 years" he meant including all the graphics + story + sound, etc. the actuall coding of a game might not take that long at all, from what I've heard.

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Do not follow me for I may not lead. Do not lead for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the hell alone.
-Jedi

I've invested probably a good 100 hours or so into A Silent Fall so far, and all I've really done is write the story and dialogue, deal with my art direction and concept sketches, produce a list of everthing I actually need to produce, prototype three characters in my 3D modelling program, draw up some loose maps of all my areas, do up some musical sketches as concept music, and drum roll start trying to implement a few things in the beta editor. Of course, I'm doing this in scattered time slots, between working full time, freelancing on two different projects, working on two of my own wildy different projects, beta-testing for ASW, AND trying to actually finish off Avernum2.

I still have to produce all my graphics, finalize level design, and do all the music.

Oh, and I forgot, I have to build the whole thing with the editor.

I'm guessing that once I'm done A Silent Fall will probably take the average rpg'er 35-45 hours to complete (once. I'm doing multiple paths/endings, so hopefully there will be about 65-70 hours of playtime in that).

The only person who's ever really solved the creation-time to viewing-time ratio is Andy Warhol. Go hunt down a copy of his film Empire , if you can find it. It took him just as long to make it as it will take you to watch it. You can tell.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

sanehatter definitely has a point. Try to plan out your plot and your plot elements beforehand. Start planning now so that by the time Coldstone is out, you're about done on the planning, too. That way, it's much less likely that you'll be forced to scrap half of your work and do them over just because you got a new idea while in the middle of constructing your game.

Figure out how many maps, spells, weapons, characters, other items,...etc. you need. Name them. Use a spreadsheet and plan out what qualities they have. If you still have spare time, start thinking about dialogue! By the time you get Coldstone in your computer, you'll be so incredibly organized that you don't even have to think much any more. All you need to do is to implement the elements and since Coldstone has a seemingly easy to use interface, it should help you get your game done that much sooner.

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Cotton Mouse to htjyang: "If you try and steal my thoughts again, I'll have you taken away in the middle of the night!!!"
Cotton Mouse: "I'm not surprised at Htyang or whatever, he strikes me as an ultra-conservative pro-life tree burner."
JohnShackles to htjyang: "Wow, you're just one bundle of conflict that got unravelled to reveal its empty, heartless core."
Dr. Tall to htjyang: "your a communist dictator beholding only to your own prejudicies"

I think it says something about how long it takes in that mac gamers report on it or something. I don't know how you'd go about reaching that site though.

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"You will suffer! You will all suffer!"
-Jon Irenicus speaking to the Cowled Wizards

Someone, (I think Skip) posted something a while back about the number of man-years it took to create Baldur's Gate II. I don't remember the specifics, but it came to be about a total of 90+ mann-years (divided across a dev. team of about sixty or so) to create that game. Remember, that game was created by professional game developers.

Something tells me most Coldstoners aren't going to have that kind of resources available to them.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

Coldstoners? That sounds a tad bit offensive

Anyways, don't let those facts discourage you. Beenox certainly doesn't employ 60 people and they are making a professional quality game.

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Apple Computer - The name of microsoft's research and development division
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Make sure you visit the Coldstone Hotline Server run by GlueBubble. The IP is:
65.4.86.190

Preparation and planning is essential to maximize efficiency and cut down on development time to the release date of your finished product, which will result in happier members and visitors. However, this is difficult to plan for many of the less fortunate who do not have a copy of the beta. This hinders us from learning the full extent of Coldstone and its features, including the extent of the built in media. Although I am working hard to plan my project, I work much better if I have something to work with and get familiar with. A public beta would have provided that, but I guess that is too late now. Perhaps lifting the barrier between testers and hopefuls, in order that they might enlighten us to all of the possibilities with Coldstone. Will it all be one map, or does it still involve flat town pictures? Will mini-games be available? How about details on the battle system? I realize that this is not final, but a vague idea will greatly help with these crucial beginning stages.

~Saphfire

Quote

Originally posted by sanehatter:
**Someone, (I think Skip) posted something a while back about the number of man-years it took to create Baldur's Gate II. I don't remember the specifics, but it came to be about a total of 90+ mann-years (divided across a dev. team of about sixty or so) to create that game. Remember, that game was created by professional game developers.

Something tells me most Coldstoners aren't going to have that kind of resources available to them.

**

that game is incredibly short. Baldur's Gate 1 is just huge compared to it, I'd say at least 3 times the amount of game time. I guess this can be forgiven, because you can actually play evilly in that game.
And I doubt we're going to be making anything anywhere near as good as BG2. Yeah you may hiss and snarl at me, but deep down you know its true. But that's not stopping me from making something as good as Diablo! which probably got more awards than bg2 will.

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"You will suffer! You will all suffer!"
-Jon Irenicus speaking to the Cowled Wizards

After experimenting with rpg maker for psx I realized that I love making maps. I could hand the story line to one of my friend have him do it. I could design the maps. Have another friend do character messages and one more for item naming. I just can't do a WHOLE rpg by my self. I have found some trick stuff to do with rpgmaker so when this thing comes out give me a couple weeks and ya all might have a maper for hire.

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Hmmm. One doller for
eternal happieness?
Mmm no I think I would
be happier with the