@shlimazel, on Aug 2 2008, 11:39 AM, said in GTW Game 27:

SoItBegins has voted for Eugene. Therefore voting out SIB would be foolish.

That really doesn't follow, as you now realize. The traitors are smarter than you think. And with that I bid thee adieu et bonne chance.

~This post has been recycled due to an excess of melodrama~

This post has been edited by SoItBegins : 02 August 2008 - 04:56 PM

You're being waaay too melodramatic, and have been all along. That makes me suspicious. Although my first instinct was to go after 1eevee1, because I suspected that he was framing you, now I fear that you are the terrorist, because I'm sure that Darth the IA had a reason for voting for you.

I was previously concerned that both of you were terrorists, but now I think that it's more likely that only one of you is guilty. I'm itchy about the choice between SIB, who looks suspicious, and 1eevee1, who looks suspicious, so I'm praying I have made the right choice.

In the future I'll remember that the terrorists occasionally vote for each other. I hope to not be fooled again.

Shlimazel: I'd say you were making a mistake, but I'm not going to try to guilt-trip you. I'd prefer it if you did change your vote, but that's just self-preservation talking.

Let me know of your final decision. I'd just like to say one more time: I AM NOT GUILTY.

Thank you for your time.

Sorry, SIB. It might comfort you to know that it's a veeeeerrry close thing that I'm voting for you and not 1eevee1. But as I've said, I need to assume that there's a reason for Darth (as an IA) to have voted for you. In my position you would do the same.

Ok, so I looked back and I realized that my previous post WAS kinda melodramatic, so I've scrapped it, and actually sat down and used my head a bit. Here's some better reasons as for why I'm not a terrorist (and, by extension, 1Eevee1 is.)

First: How do you know that darth was an IA?

1. Let's just suppose that he was an IA, and I was a terrorist. Why didn't he just say so? I'd have been lynched faster than you can say "KGB", and the game would have been over.

2. Mack never actually said that darth was an IA. Here's the quote:

Quote

Too bad. darth_vader was a valuable source of information."

That could mean anything. When Mackilroy revealed kickme to be the assassin, he said so straight, with a lot of nice bold type. Here, the flavor text is... a bit ambiguous, to say the least. Mack could have been talking about his role in the timely demise of Eugene Chin, for instance. Or simply that he's been visible all throughout this game.

Second: Why is it likely that I'm not a terrorist?

1. darth_vader voted for me because he thought I was 'quick to jump on the first available target' or something like that. The thing is, I figured that: "There are two possibilities. I'll target the one that seems suspicious. End of problem."

Now, there's only one possibility, and it's not me.

2. You voted for me because you believe darth had a reason in voting for me, since he was the IA. However, seeing as he probably was NOT the IA (see above), that means that darth did have a reason-- behavior that, while it seemed suspicious, in truth wasn't. (also above)

Third: What is it that makes me think that 1Eevee1 is evil?

1. 1Eevee1 has been... a bit hard to see lately. In these past rounds, I don't remember him showing his face at all. However, someone's still been sending PMs. Has 1Eevee1 been lurking?

2. Melodrama aside, it is actually my theory that 1Eevee1 and Eugene planned the "opposing-votes" thing as a blind. It's certainly worked-- he's still alive-- but now it's obvious that he's one of the bad guys.

3. I'm not evil. You're not evil. Therefore...

Finally: What might happen in the future.

1. If 1Eevee1 shows up, with things as they are right now, he'll vote for me, then I'm for the chop. And then, the other innocent gets night-killed. Game Over, victory to the villains.

2. If 1Eevee1 doesn't show up, the game ties. 1E's night-kill goes through anyway, and then it's a tie. Game Over, same result.

That's it. I've said it. Not an ounce of melodrama. Now do you believe me?

This post has been edited by SoItBegins : 02 August 2008 - 05:28 PM

Quote

That could mean anything. When Mackilroy revealed kickme to be the assassin, he said so straight, with a lot of nice bold type. Here, the flavor text is... a bit ambiguous, to say the least.

Ok, now that's the kind of thing you should have said in the first place. This is a good point. I wasn't suspicious of you until I thought Mackilroy had called Darth an IA. I thought that 1eevee1 was framing you. Now that you've cast this into doubt...

Very well. I'll take a chance and change my vote to 1eevee1.

If 1Eevee1 and SoItBegins vote, we can finish this round up tomorrow.

Uh, Mackilroy, I already-- oh. I recycled that post, didn't I? Well then, I vote for 1Eevee1 , just like I did before.

1Eevee1 as well. I can't argue with that logic. Yes, I've been lurking a bit, it's a flaw of mine.

Somehow, it means I'm a terrorist or something. Well, if I'm a terrorist, I'm dead. If not, then, well, terrorists win.

Final vote tally

1Eevee1
1Eevee1
Shlimazel
SoItBegins

Mack walks into the room, one final time.

"It seems you've all voted for 1Eevee1 - even 1Eevee1 himself, surprisingly." Mack waves to the guards and they take 1Eevee1 away while he hangs his head, watching his country get destroyed.

"Now you're probably wondering why both of you are still alive. SoItBegins?"

SIB nods and turns to Shlimazel. "Sorry, pal, but you know how things are these days." He punches a few buttons and some of the nukes are redirected to Shlimzael's country, while more guards take Shlimazel away. After finishing his task, SIB turns back to Mack, waiting expectantly.

"Congratulations, SoItBegins. Despite the loss of your compatriot, Eugene Chin, the two of you managed to eliminate every other leader and country at this table."

With that, Mack gets up, adjusts his tie, and leaves, leaving SoItBegins in the War Room to ponder just what he has won with this pyrrhic victory.

So.

That wasn't a very active game, but it wasn't the worst one, I'd say. Eugene Chin and SIB were the traitors, kickme was James Bond (an assassin) and darth_vader was M (the intelligence agent). They knew who each other were once d_v investigated kickme, and they could have worked together during the game but they seem to have done very little of that.

If I do host again in the future, I'll actually spend a good deal of time to write up a real story, instead of the quick piece I threw together here.

I knew it. SIB was just playing way too theatrical.

SIB had me thoroughly whipped; I didn't figure out that he was the terrorist until 1Eevee1 voted for himself, rather than giving up a fight like you'd expect a terrorist too.

I didn't figure out that he was the terrorist until I realized that he was tricking me by doing something he knew I'd be fooled by; I suspected that 1eevee1 was the terrorist and was framing SIB for killing Darth. Then I realized that SIB knew me well enough to see that I'd go for something like that after it was too late for me to do anything about it.

Thank Eugene Chin; he came up with all the clever stuff. And from now on, I'll only do melodrama when I'm innocent.

I actually had no clue what role I was playing, so yeah, I was kinda useless for the game.

Yes, I did give SoItBegins the general strategy to follow, and showed him which points to drive home in his arguments. However, SIB is the one who took those points, and that strategy, and turned it into a win.

Six days ago, winning this seemed like a pipe-dream. With a little direction, SIB turned that around completely. So, mad props to you, SoItBegins.

On another note, isn't this the third game-in-a-row darth_vader has been the I.A.?

Of course, when I asked Mackilroy why he'd chosen the exact same pair of dictators as he'd had in his last game, he told me he'd done it because nobody would have suspected something so obvious. I think that's what mrxak meant when he said he'd figured it out already.

And here, I'd honestly thought JacaByte was the I.A.

I'm afraid I have to point out an inconsistency:

@mackilroy, on Jul 19 2008, 10:34 AM, said in GTW Game 27:

There are three roles. I will tell you what they are now, but I will not tell you who had what role (unless they're evil) upon death.

Mack said he wouldn't tell us innocent roles on death. However, he seemed to forget that when kickme's time came, as he outright told us kickme was Pierce Brosnan.

Now, since I thought that JacaByte was the I.A., I'd assumed that he'd simply forgotten it after the unusually long round leading up to kickme's (and my own) death.

With the reality of it laid bare, it's clear that his less direct description of darth_vader than of kickme essentially made SoItBegins's arguments possible. That, plus the fact darth didn't come right out and proclaim himself the I.A., once he'd investigated SIB (You did investigate him, right?) left open the possibility that darth wasn't the I.A.

But, even with that possibility opened, SoItBegins still had to drive that point home, and he did so perfectly.

@eugene-chin, on Aug 4 2008, 08:00 PM, said in GTW Game 27:

With the reality of it laid bare, it's clear that his less direct description of darth_vader than of kickme essentially made SoItBegins's arguments possible. That, plus the fact darth didn't come right out and proclaim himself the I.A., once he'd investigated SIB (You did investigate him, right?) left open the possibility that darth wasn't the I.A.

But, even with that possibility opened, SoItBegins still had to drive that point home, and he did so perfectly.

Agreed on SIB's skill, well played sir, although I did have you figured out. I really can't believe that SIB managed to trick Shlim into voting for 1Eevee1. After the whole rigmarole with Eevee and Eugene tied a few rounds ago, I was confident that no one would assume Eevee was a terrorist once Eugene was exposed as evil. I actually had suspicions about both SIB and RJC ultra and chose to investigate RJC, so I never did investigate SIB. I knew he was a terrorist though and immediately saw that Eugene had probably told him not to vote and break the tie since that would reveal them. I investigated RJC because he actually had voted for 1Eevee1. I probably should have come forward, but I refrain from doing that unless I have an investigation to back up my claim. Not even the most brilliant deductive reasoning suffices. Mack told me that kickme would be informed of my investigation results indirectly, so I was a bit surprised when Eugene didn't die earlier. I had him under investigation just a few rounds in, and expected him to die sooner than he did. It took some cajoling to get kickme to act, but unfortunately he killed Eugene after I'd already gotten him voted off anyway. Very close game, in the end. Only one survivor...

@darth_vader, on Aug 5 2008, 12:02 AM, said in GTW Game 27:

After the whole rigmarole with Eevee and Eugene tied a few rounds ago, I was confident that no one would assume Eevee was a terrorist once Eugene was exposed as evil.

I'm afraid I simply can't see where you're drawing this conclusion from.

Even when I was voting for him, it was to tie, to prevent myself from getting killed. Vice versa 1Eevee1 for me.
I never directly accused 1Eevee1 of being evil, simply acted to save myself, so the conclusion is unfounded.

It remains plausible, should two dictators randomly happen to accrue votes in one round (say, EKHawkman and Templar98921 as an evil pair), that they seek to force a tie, saving both and at the same time winning distance between themselves from each other in the minds of the remaining players. This was the crux of the argument we made against 1Eevee1, and I do believe it would make an effective ploy, should the opportunity ever come up. I certainly saw no reasoning behind many of the votes in Round 2.

Now, if I'd been trying to rally people to vote 1Eevee1, and spouting a bunch of made-up reasons, then you'd have something; but it simply isn't there.

Quote

... and immediately saw that Eugene had probably told him not to vote and break the tie since that would reveal them.

Uh.

I was actually asleep when that happened. From the time you voted for me, till the end of the round, I simply wasn't there to respond. You would have had more of a fight from me if I'd been there, focusing on your misconceptions over the 1Eevee1 vote.

I also knew nothing about SIB's vote against me in Round 1, at least, not before it happened (this is part of the reason I missed the Round 1 Night-Kill: I wasted too much time trying to get my hands around SIB's throat).

He'd been concerned about putting distance between us from the word 'go,' so he made the decision himself not to defend me.

Quote

Mack told me that kickme would be informed of my investigation results indirectly, so I was a bit surprised when Eugene didn't die earlier.

Mmm. Hey.

These numbers aren't adding up.

If you investigated kickme at the end of Round 1, me end of Round 2, and RJC Ultra end of Round 3, then how did you have anything to go on during round 2? The soonest kickme could have done anything about it would have been at the end of Round 3, when it did happen.

Further, in Round 2, kickme voted 1Eevee1, tipping the balance away from me. He couldn't have known I was evil at that point.

This post has been edited by Eugene Chin : 05 August 2008 - 12:34 AM

Yeah, sorry about that, Eugene. I was thinking at the time I revealed kickme's role that I wasn't revealing bad guys, not good guys. shrug

I don't plan on hosting (let alone playing) anytime soon, so hopefully that will give me plenty of time to flesh out a better, more coherent rule set.

Also, darth_vader didn't know kickme was the assassin at the beginning. It wasn't until round three (IIRC) that he chose to investigate kickme.