Hey guys, I'm new here. I just signed up for the latest tournament though, so you can add me in as another contestant. 
Looks like it'll take place 3pm Eastern Time in the US on Sunday. Hopefully I'll be awake by then! 
Also, are there "rules" to these tournaments? Is using Mini-T looked down upon like it was when pop-pop first came out? Please fill me in on any unwritten rules. I haven't played in a while so forgive my newbish-ness.
Looking forward to Sunday!
--Steve
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Listed at the top of the topic:
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Originally posted by Helix20:
(...) **
Please read the rules before competing in the tournament. They are available here:http://homepage.mac....arious/pop_pop/
**(...)
This page contains guidelines that we usually follow - the only thing of note is that some refs choose in the second round to have 1st play 4th and 2nd play 3rd however. This is instead of 1vs3, 2vs4 as stated on the page.
The page version (1v3), (2,4) extends well and gives a proper seeded knock-out tree (i.e. if people keep their places 1 will play 2 in the final, and 3 and 4 will play out for 3rd and 4th in the losers play-off - i.e. it behaves just like in (for example) Wimbledon or the World Cup or any other tournament based system). If there were 8 players, then it would be (1v5),(3v7),(2v6),(4,8) which assuming everyone keeps there places would then become (1v3). (2v4) just like if it had been 4 players - hence recursive.
On the other hand, the custom one (1v4), (2v3) gives a theoretical bonus for whoever finished first from the previous round, in that they then only have to play whoever came 4th. In a way it gives something to aim for, but it doesn't scale obviously, and it's unclear what would happen here if we had 8 in the knockout tree - would 1st play 8th, 2nd seventh? That's never happened, so we don't know and haven't had to think about it!
It doesn't really matter and whoever is hosting will state if they are overriding what is written on the page. We've never yet had enough players to warrant having 8 in the knockout tree anyway. Who knows though, maybe soon.
Also, if you follow the link from the main guidelines page, there are some completely alternative rules for a team version there. We may even give that a go sometime
Edit: My apostrophe's and hyphens went wrong for some weird reason
(This message has been edited by Crono (edited 06-12-2003).)
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Originally posted by Crono:
**This page contains guidelines that we usually follow - the only thing of note is that some refs choose in the second round to have 1st play 4th and 2nd play 3rd however. This is instead of 1vs3, 2vs4 as stated on the page.
**
I think we all mixed it up last time. Of course the "same distance rule" makes more sense. So I would agree to play 1v3 2v4 in the next tourneys.
@anklebiter: can you please announce Helix's tourney with help of the tournament mailinglist again, as you did it last week for lumisa's tourney? Thx in advance!
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Have a look on my inofficial tourney-system: (url="http://"http://pop-pop.webhop.net")http://pop-pop.webhop.net(/url)
Hyko, who once was the great Offender 
(This message has been edited by Hyko (edited 06-12-2003).)
For what it's worth, my vote is for 1v4 and 2v3.
Also, penut: by all means use whichever pops you want. Some players don't like it and my whine and moan but I believe everyone has expressed their lack of serious exception to even the irritating pops (correct me if I'm wrong, of course...).
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'Hey man... are ketchup bombs real?'
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Originally posted by Danny:
**For what it's worth, my vote is for 1v4 and 2v3.
**
I don't think this is a voting issue - as I was saying - both are perfectly valid. If you host, you choose what rules you want to follow. The page is only guidelines as it says. If you have a properly seeded tournament, then the way on the page is how every single knockout tree competition in the world works. On the other hand, if you want to just have a 'round 2' of some sort, then you should do it however you like It's generally helpful (in that it is less confusing for others) if we don't vary too much though!
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Originally posted by Danny:
**Also, penut: by all means use whichever pops you want. Some players don't like it and my whine and moan;) but I believe everyone has expressed their lack of serious exception to even the irritating pops (correct me if I'm wrong, of course...).
**
Blah blah blah - there is no rule here - use whichever pop you want. To a great extent, unless the player's skill levels are equal, it makes absolutely no difference anyway Pick one who's special move complements the way you play The only thing you should be aware of is that Ioni spamming causes masses framerate drops on slower (non-g4) computers.
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Originally posted by Crono:
I don't think this is a voting issue...
Oh, I know. I just thought that I had a good reason for wanting to do it that way, but when it came down to actually writing it... I couldn't think of anything! So really I don't care either way.
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Ioni spamming causes masses framerate drops on slower (non-g4) computers.
And on some G4s as well, such as my 400 MHz model! When I play Ioni it's almost as much disadvantage to me as it is to my opponent to use attacks. :eek:
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'Men are the new women.... They're very trendy.'
(url="http://"http://squibix.net")Squibix Web(/url)
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Crono
...it behaves just like in (for example) Wimbledon or the World Cup...
I don't know how you can say the Pop-Pop tourney 2nd round structure is 'just like' the World Cup structure! In the World Cup only the 1st and 2nd placed of each group go forward to the knock out stages. 3rd and 4th pack their bags and go home. As for Wimbledon I don't know, but I can't remember seeing a league system in the early stages before the knock out rounds.
I prefer 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd. This is like the English football league playoff system and makes sense because the person who comes first is rewarded by playing the less threatening 4th placed person. This encourages a player to aim for the very top to get an easier 2nd round, instead of just being happy to laze around in the top four waiting for the second round.
Anyway, I am happy to play either structure, and would actually just be happy to get in the top four again, as my powers seem to be slipping away of late.
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Konbanwa, Shoes-kun! O-genki des ka?
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Originally posted by SHOES-kun **
I don't know how you can say the Pop-Pop tourney 2nd round structure is 'just like' the World Cup structure! In the World Cup only the 1st and 2nd placed of each group go forward to the knock out stages. 3rd and 4th pack their bags and go home. As for Wimbledon I don't know, but I can't remember seeing a league system in the early stages before the knock out rounds.
**
I don't know much about the world cup, but I think that is different as they have groups there, ne?
Wimbledon though I can comment on - there are lots of seeded players, and they are placed among the other qualifiers such that it is expected that the final 16 will for example will be the top 16 seeds. At each stage, the seeds will play such that the bottom half of their number will be knocked out. This means that someone in the top half of the draw will play someone from the bottom. It's the only way to guarantee that you will get the 1st seed and the second in the final. This is after all what a seed means - the person is expected to reach that position in the tree. If you are 'seeded' fifth it means that you are expected to end up fifth... in other words, you will lose against someone in the quarter final (where there are eight players) and hence you will lose to one of the top four seeds.
What it means is that as long as you always play someone in the half below you, it doesn't matter who you play ^_^; In the same way, it doesn't matter in the final whether it is written #1 plays #2 or vice-versa. It equally doesn't matter whether #1 plays #4 or #3 in the previous round, as long as #1 does not (and cannot) play #2. In the semi-final #1 cannot play #2,3,or 4, so must play #5 or higher, equally with all the others.
So, there is no rule that someone must play exactly half way down the tree from herself, nor that odds and evens must be in opposite sides of the draw to begin with. The only rule is that there must be an equal number of upper as lower half seeded players in any tree or sub-tree at any time. Easy, ne? ^_^ in other words, the rule is that at each stage, you must play someone at least half way down the remaining half from yourself. Crono-san - your way just makes it fairer since everyone plays someone at the same distance from them.
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Originally posted by SHOES-kun **
I prefer 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd. This is like the English football league playoff system and makes sense because the person who comes first is rewarded by playing the less threatening 4th placed person. This encourages a player to aim for the very top to get an easier 2nd round, instead of just being happy to laze around in the top four waiting for the second round.
**
But equally, you are punishing someone who has just scraped fourth place, very possibly for the first time, by putting them up against Lumi-neechan, where they are going to go straight out, ne? ^~ The people who win at the moment don't usually just win a one-off, does she? ^~ Wht not favour the upcoming people?
As for football... the least said about it and Beckham (sp?) and the whole thing the better ^_^;;
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Originally posted by SHOES-kun **
Anyway, I am happy to play either structure, and would actually just be happy to get in the top four again, as my powers seem to be slipping away of late.:)
**
And I am very happy to criticise from the side-lines ^^ You have obviously been caught offside ^~
P.S. Almost forgot - Crono-san's not Mr Gillette, he is (or was) Mr Wilkinson Sword. ^_~ (Gomen, Crono-san)
(This message has been edited by Ryoko (edited 06-12-2003).)
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Originally posted by mikrisa:
**Whats about the "down-under-cup"? When are you planning to do it, Dingo? I would be delighted to join:)
**
New topic posted about that (I hope).
About the final pairings: Australian Rules Football (apart from being the best game in the world) has some strange twists in it. There are 16 teams in the competition. After the regular season the final involve the top 8 teams (stupid, yes, but what are you gonna do?). As a result, the league has tried all manner of variations on finals combinations, some more laughable or agonising than others.
Needless to say, a final 8 requires at least 4 rounds of finals. They tried playing the first round as 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 and 4v5 and it was a debacle; it just proved how pointless it was finishing 7th or 8th. One one occasion, 7th beat 2nd and thus 2nd was immediately out of the finals. Hardly fair for a team which had done well enough through the previous stage to finish 2nd. It meant that those earlier 22 matches (all you maths & stats whizzes out there, I know 22 rounds makes no sense) meant nothing at all. Wimbledon does not work with pop-pop because Wimbledon does not have a round-robin 'qualifying' round.
The system which worked best involved a first week of 1v4, 2v3, 5v8 and 6v7. Even if 3rd and/or 4th lose their first finals, they still get to play the winners of the 'lower half' finals, so they get a reward for better play in qualifying. 1st and 2nd should get the best reward for qualifying top and do by playing those lower ranked. If the final system is only between 4 players, I think the 1v4 and 2v3 system should stay so as not to devalue the qualifying rounds. 1v2 and 3v4 isn't really fair to the loser of 1v2. If the plan is to 'boost' lower players, that leads to a system more like a handicap race than a competition of skill.
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Hi. I'm Dingo. Can I have your baby?
Here is the start time for some time zones around where most players seem to reign from.
Tourney starts (with daylight saving time accounted for of course!):
Central European Time (France, Germany): 9pm
British Summer Time (UK): 8pm
Eastern Time (New York): 3pm
Central Time (Illinois): 2pm
Pacific Time (California): 12 noon
btw. thankyou to SHOES for letting me steal his post....
C U on the tracker
Helix
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(This message has been edited by Helix20 (edited 06-13-2003).)
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Helix
Well, we've got 8 players playing in the tournament so far:
Eno
Fyrephin
Helix
lumisa
mikrisa
penut
SHOES
squibix
Any chance that we'll see more players joining??
I am sure Hyko is playing isn't he? I think Crono said he might be playing. Where's LISH and nytrO?
Anyway, if just 8 turn up it should be a good tourney.
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I had intended to play but my after replacing my HD pop-pop is no longer registered and I can't find the code (yes, I've sent an email to ambrosia asking for a new code, just hasn't arrived yet), so I may still join you but it'll be as a demo player.
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May whatever (url="http://"http://www.fyrephin.co.uk")darkness(/url) you embrace, always bring you (url="http://"http://www.melodramatic.com/users/fyrephin")enlightenment(/url)
