Absolutely Gorgeous!
I am excited to see more.

-eveningtoast

Those are some lovely pngs you've got there, Pallas.

What exactly is your process? Did you write something that can pull these images out one by one? In that case, would it perhaps be helpful if you distributed the program to others in order to expedite the process?

Or would that be useless to others without basic knowledge of C?

Of course, you're under no obligation to distribute the script/program/whatever if you consider it private intellectual property

I'll be MIA for most of, if not the entire day tomorrow (or more accurately, later today). I'd love to see what's done by Saturday morning

This post has been edited by redsteven : 24 October 2008 - 01:55 AM

Pallas, you really stepped up to the plate and delivered here. May you have a prominent place in Ares X's eventual credits screen :).

@eveningtoast, on Oct 24 2008, 12:14 AM, said in ARES X:

we should see if we can maintain the games ability to utilise the GameRanger service.

-eveningtoast

Definitely GR should be maintained - I've had great online games with Ares.

@adam_0, on Oct 24 2008, 01:28 AM, said in ARES X:

Third, I might try to port the map editor. If there's a ton of demand.

I think this would be essential, otherwise the game will run the risk of stagnating again.
Look at how Marathon has survived through add ons.

@pallas-athene, on Oct 24 2008, 04:47 AM, said in ARES X:

Correction:

Hehhehehe... Go Pallas!

@captain-bob, on Oct 24 2008, 01:52 AM, said in ARES X:

Pallas, you really stepped up to the plate and delivered here. May you have a prominent place in Ares X's eventual credits screen :).

He shall, I assure you. As well as redsteven, who drew Pallas' attention to this topic - the last time Pallas posted before now was April of this year.

@lord-commander-anic, on Oct 24 2008, 02:04 AM, said in ARES X:

Definitely GR should be maintained - I've had great online games with Ares.
I think this would be essential, otherwise the game will run the risk of stagnating again.
Look at how Marathon has survived through add ons.

I understand your feelings, but I don't know if NL will even release the code for Hera. If he does, I promise to try to get it working.

As for GameRanger, I'll try that too. But consider these things like updated graphics: they're additional features. The first thing is to port the single player part of the game. From my understanding, adding Hera and GR would add a significant amount of time onto the port.

@adam_0, on Oct 23 2008, 09:28 PM, said in ARES X:

Here's what I, the dude who's actually going to do the porting at this point, say:

First, we port the thing. Yay, everybody's happy.

EDIT: (And if you're very nice and say "please and thank you" (and, more importantly, I get permission from Nathan Lamont) I might do a Windows port, if everything works well the first go-around.)

Second, if you guys really want upgraded graphics, I can go for that. You make 'em, I stick 'em in the game (as a plug-in, of course).

Third, I might try to port the map editor. If there's a ton of demand.

Fourth, I will personally talk to Nathan Lamont, explain my position, and lobby for a sequel.

But in that order, and in no other way, do I agree to do this.

Understood?

Now, if I can get all the .pngs and the source code by this weekend, I might be able to begin work over the weekend on this. I'll try to set up a sourceforge site for it, but it all depends on how fast you get this going.

I think you're going to find porting it harder than you think. All the networking code will need to be rewritten.

@rudy, on Oct 24 2008, 07:14 AM, said in ARES X:

I think you're going to find porting it harder than you think. All the networking code will need to be rewritten.

Yeah, I understand that this isn't going to be a cakewalk, but I already have most of the frameworks that I'm going to use (SDL, OpenGL, etc) lined up. I'm going to be re-writing this from the top-down, that is, from the general algorithms down to the code that will need to be entirely re-written - the sprite handling functions and network code, which will be a stretch for me. Which is why I'm starting with doing single player first.

Yes, I think redsteven deserves some thanking too (I am like a senile old man around here; sometimes I just wander off).

I am under the impression that Hera was written in REALBasic. Which is to say, releasing code for it might not really be a good option, as you would need to purchase a REALBasic license in order to be able to compile and distribute the application. I think it would be far more reasonable to write a new toolset for dealing with Ares' assets, and I think a good start with that would be to continue with the SMIV challenge, and decode all the other resources.

Part of the reason I say that is because I don't think a port of Ares should be using the resource fork at all. It's not appropriate to OS X, and any resource-fork-based code would have to be completely rewritten anyway for a Windows port like you suggested above. If there are still compatibility APIs lying around for it, there's no guarantee that using them wouldn't necessitate a second rewrite in the near future.

...and deprecation of the resource fork is just one of the reasons that porting Ares to OS X would be a painful, not-fun experience; many of the other APIs it is written against (QuickDraw, sound, networking) are no longer current. Basically, I would anticipate that only the game logic code would really be salvageable, and even it would be in intractable, ten-year-old C code.

Don't get me wrong, a port is definitely doable. But, if your reaction was "cool, we can port Ares to OS X", you're a little off: having Ares X will be cool; but porting it will suck.

@pallas-athene, on Oct 24 2008, 07:23 AM, said in ARES X:

<snip>

While I understand what you're saying, I want you to understand that I'm working on a game of my own at the moment (and let's just say it's not a big deal and it's just for learning experiences). Although I won't know what the QuickDraw functions will do, I'll just whip up an OpenGL equivalent. I understand that it's going to have cobwebs and such, and that it's not going to be a walk in the park. I mean, porting Aquaria to OS X from Windows has taken months, and that's with modern code, not outdated and deprecated code.

What you (and this is for everybody) need to understand is that I'm a full-time student. Granted, I'll have lots of time to work on this, but it's not that this is my job or anything. This will take time. What I need you guys to do is get behind me and support me where I need you. If you can do that, this will go a lot faster, hopefully.

If you want a detailed battle plan for different components I can give it to you, but that would take me a while to type up.

@pallas-athene, on Oct 24 2008, 09:23 AM, said in ARES X:

<clip>

...and deprecation of the resource fork is just one of the reasons that porting Ares to OS X would be a painful, not-fun experience; many of the other APIs it is written against (QuickDraw, sound, networking) are no longer current. Basically, I would anticipate that only the game logic code would really be salvageable, and even it would be in intractable, ten-year-old C code.

<snip>

Agreed, the more that can be made to depend on things that aren't likely to go away (the most current "recommended" ways to implement things) would be best.

I'm also inclined to strongly suggest avoiding the use of apple-special calls to libraries, just because it would make a port to any other system even easier. But at the same time, as long as the code is sufficiently documented and compartmentalized, it shouldn't really be a problem to have preprocessor directives including alternate versions of functions that perform tasks with alternate methods/host resources.

Wow I'm stating the obvious aren't I? Oh well, at least its a second voice on the same opinion/suggestion.

-TLTMAA

Go Pallas Athene! This is the start of something good.

@Pallas Athene
This is curiosity really, do you have the sprites you are converting in a grid like Nathan was asking for in his post? Is that something that is created when you extract the image from the sprite?

-eveningtoast

This thread is beginning to look quite interesting.

Before things go too much further, I'd just like to point out that we have an entire board - this one or the Engineering Department - free for topics on this. So, if you want to start topics for the various subcomponents ("Pallas Athene's Sprite Project", "Rebelious' Coding Project"), feel free to do so. It might help keep cross-chatter from confusing people who are trying to problem-solve a particular issue.

Oh, and I can move posts around if necessary.

Incidentally, Pallas Athene, welcome back to the boards. I see you're still as tech-savvy as I remember.

@eveningtoast, on Oct 24 2008, 07:45 PM, said in ARES X:

@Pallas Athene
This is curiosity really, do you have the sprites you are converting in a grid like Nathan was asking for in his post? Is that something that is created when you extract the image from the sprite?

-eveningtoast

I don't recall a specific request for a grid--in fact, SMIV animations do not store a grid, but rather have separate sections for each frame. Sometimes (for example, in the case of the explosion graphic) the frames are differently-sized, so stitching them back into a grid wouldn't be an accurate conversion.

@sundered-angel, on Oct 24 2008, 08:03 PM, said in ARES X:

Incidentally, Pallas Athene, welcome back to the boards. I see you're still as tech-savvy as I remember.

Why thank you. It's good to be here.

@sundered-angel, on Oct 24 2008, 04:57 PM, said in ARES X:

Before things go too much further, I'd just like to point out that we have an entire board - this one or the Engineering Department - free for topics on this. So, if you want to start topics for the various subcomponents ("Pallas Athene's Sprite Project", "Rebelious' Coding Project"), feel free to do so. It might help keep cross-chatter from confusing people who are trying to problem-solve a particular issue.

If I get the Sourceforge account working for this (that would be once I get the code, sprites, etc), I can create forums solely for that.

And when I do, I'll probably post a topic on these boards with a link to it. Pinning that would be very helpful, Sundered Angel.

Woah. It has been way too long since I visited this thread (thanks for the tip, redsteven). I would like to help with the graphic conversion (actually, I would like to help with anything), but it seems that everybody already has this covered. If anybody has compiled NL's scripts yet could you post them, or will you share whatever method you are using, Pallas Athene?

To all those involved back before September, thank you for sticking with the project, even if I haven't entirely. I will forever mourn the untimely death of my G3, or until I get it fixed, whichever comes first.

To those involved now, thank you for all you are doing to accelerate the process.

To NL, if you are reading this, thank you. This is more than I could have ever hoped for.

@Pallas Athene
I really don't know if this helps, but I've included the quote that redsteven had originally posted from his e-mail correspondence with Nathan.

-eveningtoast

Nathan, in e-mail to redsteven said:

If there is someone who is genuinely interested in porting Ares to Mac OS X, they should be able to use the code there to decipher the 'SMIV' resource type, which represents the Ares sprite graphics. Each SMIV resource contains one or more frames of a sprite, typically a single ship rendered at multiple angles. If, for each SMIV resource, I am provided a png with each sprite in that resource laid out in an even grid, against an alpha background, without help from me, I will consider that enough skill and interest to make the rest of the source code available.

Thanks for the recognition lol. I feel so warm and fuzzy.

As we all know, however, I did the easy part.

As far as the graphics go, we probably COULD use graphics artists. When we get the sprite to png conversions done, I'll ask Nathan if he'd be alright with us making higher resolution, more detailed graphics. That serves two purposes: 1) it keeps more people involved with the project, and 2) it'll make things look better, especially if we plan on playing full screen.
When I last played Ares full screen I was using a 15" monitor. On my iMac's 20" monitor (which isn't even THAT big anymore), all the ships would be enlarged and blocky looking.

I don't THINK Nathan will mind. I'm under the impression that he wanted the sprites extracted and converted primarily because he wanted to test us (he specifically used the word "challenge"), not because he wants make his desktop background a grid of Ares pngs... although I could be wrong.

BTW, thanks for requoting that Mr. Toasty.

-----------------

I've got a couple of questions for Rebelious, Pallas, and anyone else who's gonna be doing the coding:
So you're basically gonna do a rewrite? Is it conceivable that you'd be able to write something from scratch (if that's what you're doing) that could accurately replicate the behavior of the old Ares engine?

------------------

Sundered, you're right, this thread is getting a little messy lol. I was thinking that maybe we should hold off on compartmentalizing and stuff until we actually got the source code. At that point, I figure we'll let this thing really go.

When we get the code, I plan on trying to recruit additional programmers from other mac gaming boards. I'll also write letters to congress asking for federal funding for the Ares port :laugh:

@redsteven, on Oct 24 2008, 09:02 PM, said in ARES X:

When I last played Ares full screen I was using a 15" monitor. On my iMac's 20" monitor (which isn't even THAT big anymore), all the ships would be enlarged and blocky looking.

It's not even the size of the screen, it's the resolution. My 15 inch iMac (a Blueberry one) has a whopping resolution of 800x600, while my 13 inch MacBook has a resolution of 1280x800. Bit of a difference there.

@redsteven, on Oct 24 2008, 09:02 PM, said in ARES X:

I've got a couple of questions for Rebelious, Pallas, and anyone else who's gonna be doing the coding:
So you're basically gonna do a rewrite? Is it conceivable that you'd be able to write something from scratch (if that's what you're doing) that could accurately replicate the behavior of the old Ares engine?

I don't know if Pallas is going to do the coding, but I'd be glad to figure something out with him if he'd like to.

The whole point of getting the source code is to use the old Ares engine.

That being said, I could use an existing physics engine (Bullet is the best one that comes to mind) and work from the ground up. That would take a lot more time.

@redsteven, on Oct 24 2008, 09:02 PM, said in ARES X:

Sundered, you're right, this thread is getting a little messy lol. I was thinking that maybe we should hold off on compartmentalizing and stuff until we actually got the source code. At that point, I figure we'll let this thing really go.

Yes, something we can do on Sourceforge, and not something we should clutter this forum with. When Ares X is released, I'm sure they'll give us our own little corner on the boards, but I don't think that we should bring the cart before the horse on that one.

@redsteven, on Oct 24 2008, 09:02 PM, said in ARES X:

When we get the code, I plan on trying to recruit additional programmers from other mac gaming boards.

Do you think that perhaps you should have asked me on this before just posting it? It's a lot harder to work with multiple programmers, much less those that are not already associated with these boards. I'll agree to working with Pallas simply because he appears to have significant knowledge about the Ares universe, and specifically about the sprites and such. He could be quite helpful. But other people who I don't even know who jump on the bandwagon because they think they're getting free candy?