not technically but graphically

It's hard to explain. I can use Resedit or Mission Computer, and I have a couple good printed out maps (EVN Starmap) to go by. I can make the Syst resources and I know how to set them up so they connect to each other properly so a ship can jump from one system to the next.

My problem is that my little map must have symmetry and nothing on the rest of the map is laid out that way. I have an artist background, so I can't be satisfied with lines that go everywhere and nowhere.

It's probably easy when the map is laid out for you, if say you are following a piece of sci-fi

But what do other creators do?

like THIS

This post has been edited by Yoda Almighty : 08 February 2008 - 06:41 AM

For the Arpia novels, I made a starmap based on real distances between star systems that research says could hold planets (and a couple of "no chance of a planet according to research" systems). It has no symmetry, but it is logical. The explanation behind some systems appearing right next to each other in 2D is that the map is based on 3D, and therefore you can get some systems which have only one hyperlink.
Depends on what you really feel you need.
Symmetry is fine, but it's not my kind of thing. I prefer to draw closer to reality

I made my map (at least the final version of it) well after the political layout of the KFL galaxy was defined. Since K ships explicitly 'fold', as opposed to jumping like Nova ships do, and do not have to refuel, there are many more intersystem links then are considered average, such as from a system on one far end of a Nome to the opposite: however, that is an exception. Most systems are linked to all other nearby systems unless there is a reason, such as a system being restricted (the inner Semma'akheru system is accessible only via what would be a hypergate in Nova due to the fact that it is considered to be a part of the same system as that which encloses the hypergate). Some areas, treated as main traffic areas between the Nomes, are only linked to each other, and for the most part the systems within a Nome only link within their own Nome, with a few acting as gateways to the rest of the Neb.
As for actual layout, in dense clusters separated by tracts of mostly empty space with defined corridor systems between them.

Colosseum was easy to lay out. I simply put Colosseum in the middle with the Battle Arena Systems surrounding it.

@vast-deathmaster, on Feb 8 2008, 01:27 AM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

But what do other creators do?

I can't tell you; it would ruin the surprise.

But I owe Qaanol for inspiring it.

(By the way, my TC (EDIT: Version 5) is publicly available for those who know how to find it.)

This post has been edited by Dr. Trowel : 08 February 2008 - 12:22 PM

If you want symmetry try a two-arm spiral. Systems can be random enough within each arm but the arms don't connect to each other.

@vast-deathmaster, on Feb 7 2008, 10:27 PM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

It's hard to explain. I can use Resedit or Mission Computer, and I have a couple good printed out maps (EVN Starmap) to go by. I can make the Syst resources and I know how to set them up so they connect to each other properly so a ship can jump from one system to the next.

My problem is that my little map must have symmetry and nothing on the rest of the map is laid out that way. I have an artist background, so I can't be satisfied with lines that go everywhere and nowhere.

It's probably easy when the map is laid out for you, if say you are following a piece of sci-fi

But what do other creators do?

Are you talking about that you want them exactly symmetric? I understand your plight. Using Artanis's EVN Cartographer for EV New, I was able to do it by entering the coordinates. For example, several systems that exist in EVN had to be accounted for in the plug I am working on, as a result I wanted to put them in their exact relative location, as they would appear in Nova, so I just measured them on the Nova map and offset the systems accordingly.

@qaanol, on Feb 8 2008, 09:41 AM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

If you want symmetry try a two-arm spiral. Systems can be random enough within each arm but the arms don't connect to each other.

This is how a project that I did once had it. I ditched that project, though, took a short break, and started Darkstar. Darkstar was supposed to be a starmap set up in a fantasy-like fashion, like Middle Earth, which is actually what started the project. Hint, kids: don't start any TC-sized EV project with the map. The size of Darkstar's map and its complex interconnectedness with the storyline was one of it's fatal errors.

As for Acheron, each system is actually a "sector" in a larger system, and the systems are linked by a gate system known as skybridges.

@qaanol, on Feb 8 2008, 04:41 PM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

If you want symmetry try a two-arm spiral. Systems can be random enough within each arm but the arms don't connect to each other.
<snip-images>

Even if I grabbed a spiral galaxy or a bar-spiral or even a Globular Cluster, the stars within would still be laid out in a symmetrical pattern. It's the combination of jump lines and systems that a picture. For example, the Polaris system is a crude eye shape. But I would end up making it much more almond shaped.

I happen to have a Star Chart book. It's not new copywrite 1988 Uranometria 2000.0 Volume 1, The Northern Hemisphere to -6degrees

It has about 260 pages of charts. It is still useful to the Amateur Astronomer. The Magnitude of each star is notated by size and I could probably make a decent map with jump lines without symmetry. Hmmmmm Thanks. I think those pictures made me think of my astronomy interest take the chart book out again. The charts give me some ideas.

Set the picture of your planned-out syst map/chart as a nebula, then build systs over it to match aesthetically. Even if your off by a bit, its not like anyone will really notice or care.

@lnsu, on Feb 12 2008, 12:58 AM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

Set the picture of your planned-out syst map/chart as a nebula, then build systs over it to match aesthetically. Even if your off by a bit, its not like anyone will really notice or care.

You must not be an artist (or not have gone through art classes), because it DOES matter. It matters to Me. I will notice when things are too close or too far apart or if the shape is not correct

Of coarse, the creators of EVN probably kicked out anyone with these thought patterns.......then again maybe those people were shipped off to design Polaris ships

Well, that was a marginally insulting reply.

If you do what LNSU says then you will be able to position the systems to your map to the pixel. You can't really place something on a computer any more perfectly than to the pixel. Although I am still having difficulty figuring out exactly what you are trying to do. I just realized after your last post, in fact, that by saying "I have an artist background" you are actually trying to say "I have a background as an artist" because it sounds as if you are telling us that you have an artistic background to place behind your map. Also, you're asking how to set up a map so that one side is exactly the same as the other, or in the case of radial symmetry, all directions out from a center are identical. If you're going for a star map of realistically placed stars, that won't work. If you're splitting up a single system into that so that everything appears to be jump points, it will work fine. However, I really can't tell if you want a symmetrical map or not, if you're trying to set up a map for a TC or a plug or simply modify the existing nova map, or if you're even using the word symmetry incorrectly because you're looking for another word. Because I assure you, globular clusters do not have stars laid out in a symmetrical pattern.

Also, do not pigeonhole artists to fit your own personal definition, if you please.

This post has been edited by Crusader Alpha : 12 February 2008 - 03:24 PM

Though if it was symmetry you were after, that's really quite simple to accomplish. Centering your map on (0,0) simply place a system on the map wherever it looks pretty using a graphic system placement thingy, then use Mission Computer to see the x and y coordinates, and then create a system with coordinates (-x,y) if you want symmetry around the y-axis, (x,-y) if you want symmetry around the x-axis, or (-x,-y) if you want radial symmetry.

Lastly, you may want to tone down the holier-than-thou attitude, cause it won't impress too many people. Or at least the more-artistic-than-thou attitude. I can say with utter certainty that the ATMOSians (i.e. the "creators of EVN" you speak so fondly of) didn't kick anyone out. Nor did they banish their less artistic types off to design the Polaris ships - in fact, it's the MORE artistic among them that designed the ships.

This post has been edited by Belthazar : 12 February 2008 - 04:25 PM

@belthazar, on Feb 12 2008, 09:14 PM, said in How do YOU lay out a map:

Though if it was symmetry you were after, that's really quite simple to accomplish. Centering your map on (0,0) simply place a system on the map wherever it looks pretty using a graphic system placement thingy, then use Mission Computer to see the x and y coordinates, and then create a system with coordinates (-x,y) if you want symmetry around the y-axis, (x,-y) if you want symmetry around the x-axis, or (-x,-y) if you want radial symmetry.

Lastly, you may want to tone down the holier-than-thou attitude, cause it won't impress too many people. Or at least the more-artistic-than-thou attitude. I can say with utter certainty that the ATMOSians (i.e. the "creators of EVN" you speak so fondly of) didn't kick anyone out. Nor did they banish their less artistic types off to design the Polaris ships - in fact, it's the MORE artistic among them that designed the ships.

I suppose the reason I apply the attitude is because someone might think '....any idiot can do this why can't he....?' So I add in the extra information saying here is where I am at where I am coming from without success.