I agree with what you said. Immersiveness is vital in a story, gameplay is for sucking the potential player in. That's a good reason to have stuff that you can just do, like searching for old disabled ships or space stations, hunting pirates, raiding merchants as a pirate, and such. Also, independent missions are important, since you don't need to start a storyline to get them, usually.

Everybody is makong good points. I think I agree with MumblingPsycho the most, though, but I'm not sure. I just hit the OK button without really reading the post.

I agree pretty much with MP; the parts of Nova that were long, scripted "go here then go here then go here then go here" missions were tedious, regardless of the level of immersion. However, I think the same can go the other way; lots of battle with no direction is equally mind-numbing. A plug that lands between, obviously, is ideal. Whether it tends towards more action or more storyline is irrelevant in my opinion, although I'm sure others have different preferences.

One distinction I'd like to make here is between "action" and "gameplay." People seem to be throwing these around interchangeably, but I'd say that they're different, while fulfilling the same purpose of sprucing up traveling the galaxy. I am unfortunately going to toot my own horn here, but only because no other examples come to mind. Making executive decisions as to what research to pursue in Anathema isn't action at all, but even I have a lot of fun using different combinations of techs to come up with different results. That to me is gameplay, even though it doesn't involve blowing stuff up. The same goes in the second installment, where you start to assume the reins of Bureau war policy; calling the shots doesn't inherently mean explosions (although it can), but it is still enjoyable.

Anyways, in the words of JoshTigerheart, (/shameless self promotion)

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One distinction I'd like to make here is between "action" and "gameplay." People seem to be throwing these around interchangeably, but I'd say that they're different, while fulfilling the same purpose of sprucing up traveling the galaxy

That's true, they are separate, distinct things.

OK, if I could change the poll from 'combat' to 'gameplay', I would, but it would take a mod to do that, I believe. Thank you all for your input. I may have to adjust my plans... I mean nothing. I don't have any plans. You didn't hear anything.

Whew, that was close... I mean... err... walks away whistling to himself and sweating

@zapp, on Sep 13 2007, 02:53 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:

OK, if I could change the poll from 'combat' to 'gameplay', I would, but it would take a mod to do that, I believe. Thank you all for your input. I may have to adjust my plans... I mean nothing. I don't have any plans. You didn't hear anything.

Whew, that was close... I mean... err... walks away whistling to himself and sweating

I think you can just edit the original post.

@joshtigerheart, on Sep 13 2007, 09:02 AM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:

Hence again why I prefer to emphasis gameplay. It's a game, people want to play it, not read it. If your TC is just some boring periods of flying from point A to point B between blocks of text, nobody is going to play it a second time through.

And that is what I most dislike about the regular Nova scenario. Most of the missions are "take x to y, read some text , and then come back". With my TC I've focused first on combat. I figure if I make it good enough (and release it) I can get someone else to improve my crappy writing and graphics.

Exactly. I'm adding a lot of combat missions to Nebula, including some where you actually capture a system from another government. I hate it where you have to ferry cargo and you come back and it's like "Oh, while you were gone <incredibly important thing you should've been in on> happened". I'm trying to fix that.

@gray-shirt-ninja, on Sep 13 2007, 02:26 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:

And that is what I most dislike about the regular Nova scenario. Most of the missions are "take x to y, read some text , and then come back". With my TC I've focused first on combat. I figure if I make it good enough (and release it) I can get someone else to improve my crappy writing and graphics.

Haha, that's the same take on it as me, except on the writing. I like to write. But I can't do graphics even if my life depended on it. Oh wait, did I imply something just now. No, no, just my imagination.

I tried editing it; it didn't work. And I think this is the second topic I've ever started that went over two pages. I could be wrong.

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Extremely crappy gameplay will make players interested in the story wish it was a book because they wanna know what's next but will make the actual game a chore

As much as I hate to admit it, that's how parts of ARPIA2 felt, especially through much of the Regular Member story. Pace is a good writer, but I really didn't feel like there was much point to my flying around the galaxy a number of times. I've been meaning to get around to playing the Regular member string just to see the different branch you can take, but I can't get past the tedium.

Colosseum takes more of a middle road with heavy emphasis on gameplay. All the missions in the game will have you fighting something, or at least getting shot at. You fight a variety of opponents armed with various combinations of weapons that require different approaches to attack. You advance in rank and customize your ship with more than mear weapons, choosing even engines, reactors, armor, and shield generators. But there's still a bit of story to give reason to everything and add a bit of plot to it all, though adding a story was a bit of an after thought, though a very early one so it isn't merely tacked on. Originally, Colosseum wasn't going to have any real plot to it, just a challenging, combat oriented TC with a tournament.

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One distinction I'd like to make here is between "action" and "gameplay." People seem to be throwing these around interchangeably, but I'd say that they're different, while fulfilling the same purpose of sprucing up traveling the galaxy.

Indeed they are different. A very certain TC out there has gameplay much different from anything in Nova, making it quite interesting.

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Anyways, in the words of JoshTigerheart, (/shameless self promotion)

It's (/shamelessadvertisement). And I wish I was the first one to use it.

I found it kind of annoying that I had to go the long way around through several hypergates and a wormhole just to get to a system, then all the way back. I got around it by connecting the Resido system to Sol. Just a slight problem, really, but it did detract from the otherwise incredible experience.

@joshtigerheart, on Sep 13 2007, 01:52 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:

Indeed they are different. A very certain TC out there has gameplay much different from anything in Nova, making it quite interesting.

Good times.

Perhaps "paraphrase" would have been a more appropriate word then.

In a good plug, the story maintains the status of being deep and immersive, but conversely assumes as little of the player as humanly possible (unless, of course, there is an obvious reason for telling the player they're feeling some way).

Combat, on the other hand, should be frequent, but not so much that every mission involves combat; use the story to make 'errand' missions lead up to combat, and not just be random tasks.

I think I read on Wikipedia that the reason a lot of people don't like Nova is that it makes you say things and do things that may or may not be true to your character. For this reason I'm putting as few direct quotations from the player as possible. The player's text is mostly generic (you reply that you are; you give him your thoughts).

@cosmic_nusiance, on Sep 13 2007, 11:46 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:

I think I read on Wikipedia that the reason a lot of people don't like Nova is that it makes you say things and do things that may or may not be true to your character. For this reason I'm putting as few direct quotations from the player as possible. The player's text is mostly generic (you reply that you are; you give him your thoughts).

I, on the other hand, think it's a hoot to make the player say amusing things, although paraphrasing is sometimes more amusing than a specific quotation:
"Look, you piratical scum... I've had enough of your miserable excuses. The next time you fail to bring me what I ask, I will feed you to my pet Vrennan Ice Lizard", while entertaining, is not as good as 'You tell the pirate captain exactly what you think of him, his parentage (canine), his opinions (legumino-cephalic), and his prospects if he should fail you again (ice lizard snack).'

Hm, now I need to work a failable pirate captain into my plug. Curses.

Why do we have to choose between gameplay and story? That's as bad as having to choose between height and hair in a presidential election!

I voted for any TC at all, since we don't exactly have a lot of them

If you're zapp, do not highlight this.

Spoiler

I get around the "assuming too much about the player" by writing Colosseum entirely in the third person voice and outright stating that the story isn't about you, it's about <PN>. Not all good stories have to be about the player, after all. I wonder if I'm the first person to break away from second-person format in the EV series?

I also wonder how long I'm going to continue using these spoiler tags as joke in response to a post zapp made...