We have difference of an opinion

Poll: The Rebel Star Liner Versions (14 member(s) have cast votes)
Which version do you think is more suited to be a Rebel Star Liner?
Compromised Version
(2 votes [14.29%])
Percentage of vote: 14.29%
Cade's Version
(4 votes [28.57%])
Percentage of vote: 28.57%
Coraxus's Version
(8 votes [57.14%])
Percentage of vote: 57.14%

(EDIT)
As well as choosing which versions you feel it fits the most, we also would like to hear any suggestions to improve on the design based on your choice.
(/EDIT)

Cade and I decided to make a Rebel version of the Star Liner whos purpose is mainly to run large amounts of important cargos that most Rebel warships aren't equipped to handle to various Rebel cells and headquarters under dangerous conditions that even the most experienced freighter captains cannot handle, even though it usually relies on escorts to do the job. The Rebel Star Liner will also be used as armored transport for ferrying Rebel VIP and for Rebel extraction/insertion missions.

We've had this issue gone long enough and could not decide what specs to give this new ship. Though we came with a compromised version, both of us in our personal opinion are still not satisfied with the results. We made two versions of what we think the ship should be decked out, Cade thinks my version is too weak, while I think his version is too strong. The first spec layout you'll see is the strongest of all the civilian Star Liner variant called the "Armed Version". Only certain attributes of the data will be presented for this feedback purposes. So here are the following datas:

Nova's Stock Version:
"Armed Variant"

Quote

Speed: 300
Accel: 375
Turn: 50
Shields: 700/80
Armor: 200
Guns: 2
Turrets: 2

Mass Space:
66 gross mass total

• 56 stock mass

• 10 free mass

Cargo: 120
Fuel: 12 jumps
Length: 30m
Mass: 150 tons
Crew: 300
Cost: 500k

AI Type: 1 (Wimpy trader)
Strength: 40
Deionize: 10
Max Ion: 100
Buy Random: 80%
Hire Random: 0%

Armament:

• 2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)

• 2 medium blasters - (8 tons each; 16 tons)

(56 weapon tons total)

Outfits:
N/A

Compromised Version:
"Rebel Conversion"

Quote

Speed: 375
Accel: 425
Turn: 45
Shields: 750/80
Armor: 250
Guns: 2
Turrets: 3

Mass Space:
168 gross mass total

• 138 stock mass

• 30 free mass

Cargo: 85
Fuel: 10 jumps
Length: 30m
Mass: 150 tons
Crew: 100
Cost: 700k

AI Type: 2 (Brave trader)
Strength: 60
Deionize: 20
Max Ion: 115
Buy Random: 80%
Hire Random: 0%

Armament:

• 3 Fusion turrets - (20 tons each; 60 tons)

• 2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)

• 3 Radar missile launcher - (7 tons each; 21 tons)

  • + 100 Radar missiles

(121 weapon tons total)

Outfits:

• 1 IFF Decoder

• 1 Gravametric sensors

• 1 Afterburner - (5 tons)

• 1 Matrix steel - (3 tons)

• 1 Rebel IR Jammer - (2 tons)

• 1 Rebel Radar Jammer - (4 tons)

• 1 Solar Panel - (3 tons)

(17 outfits tons total)

Cade's Version:
"Rebel Conversion"

Quote

Speed: 375
Accel: 425
Turn: 45
Shields: 750/80
Armor: 250
Guns: 2
Turrets: 3

Mass Space:
252 gross mass total

• 192 stock mass

• 60 free mass

Cargo: 85
Fuel: 10 jumps
Length: 30m
Mass: 150 tons
Crew: 100
Cost: 700k

AI Type: 2 (Brave trader)
Strength: 60
Deionize: 20
Max Ion: 115
Buy Random: 80%
Hire Random: 0%

Armament:

• *1 EMP Cannon - (10 tons)

• 2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)

• 2 Grav missile launcher - (10 tons each; 20 tons)

  • + 45 Grav missiles - (1 ton each; 45 tons)

(175 weapon tons total)

Outfits:

• 1 IFF Decoder

• 1 Gravametric sensors

• 1 Afterburner - (5 tons)

• 1 Matrix steel - (3 tons)

• 1 Rebel IR Jammer - (2 tons)

• 1 Rebel Radar Jammer - (4 tons)

• 1 Solar Panel - (3 tons)

(17 outfits tons total)

Coraxus's Version:
"Rebel Conversion"

Quote

Speed: 375
Accel: 425
Turn: 45
Shields: 750/80
Armor: 250
Guns: 2
Turrets: 3

Mass Space:
106 gross mass total

• 90 stock mass

• 16 free mass

Cargo: 85
Fuel: 10 jumps
Length: 30m
Mass: 150 tons
Crew: 75
Cost: 700k

AI Type: 2 (Brave trader)
Strength: 60
Deionize: 20
Max Ion: 115
Buy Random: 80%
Hire Random: 0%

Armament:

• 2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)

• 1 Fusion turret - (20 tons)

• 1 Raven Rocket Turret - (15 tons)

  • + 20 Raven Rockets

(75 weapon tons total)

Outfits:

• 1 IFF Decoder

• 1 Gravametric sensors

• 1 Afterburner - (5 tons)

• 1 Carbon fiber - (1 tons)

• 1 Rebel IR Jammer - (2 tons)

• 1 Rebel Radar Jammer - (4 tons)

• 1 Solar Panel - (3 tons)

(15 outfits tons total)

That's what we have so far. Cade wanted a new weapon to equip the Star Liner with, and so I decided to put it in his version. This weapon was design to deter powerful fast hot-rods like the those deadly notorious Pirate Valkyrie class IV when point defense weapons aren't enough. Here are the specs for the weapons, and again, you won't see all the attributes for this:

EMP Cannon

Quote

Weapon Specs:

Reload: 0
Count: 1

MassDmg: 3
EnergyDMG: 7
Guidance: 3
Speed: 0
AmmoType: -1005 (half a unit of fuel)
Graphic: -5
Inacc: 1

Impact: 30
ExplodType: -1
ProxRadius: 1
BlastRadius: 0
MiscFlag: 0010 = Loop Weapon sounds
Seeker: 0000
SmokeSet: -1
Decay: 0

BeamLength: 400
BeamWidth: 2
Falloff: 0

ProxSafety: 0
Flags2: 1200 = Uses ship's sprite if applicable; Can disable, not destroy
Ionization: 4

Recoil: 3
ExitType: -1

BurstCount: 60
BurstReload: 0

Flags3: 0011 = Uses ammo at end of burst cycle; Fires from closest exit point to target

So there you have it. Once we feel we have enough feedback then we can decide how the outcome should be.

This post has been edited by Coraxus : 18 July 2006 - 12:45 PM

I like your version best. It's more in tune with the Nova universe.

If you have a weapon's burst reload set to zero it'll use ammo every time it fires, in this case every frame, and its burstcount will be ignored. I mean, unless I'm missing some alternate use of the fields, there's nothing gained by setting burstcount to 60 for this weapon.

In any case, you should decide how much total space you want your ship to have, and then each of you should design from there.

This post has been edited by Qaanol : 17 July 2006 - 03:21 PM

@qaanol, on Jul 17 2006, 03:21 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

If you have a weapon's burst reload set to zero it'll use ammo every time it fires, in this case every frame, and its burstcount will be ignored. I mean, unless I'm missing some alternate use of the fields, there's nothing gained by setting burstcount to 60 for this weapon.

Initially, I used the Ion Cannon to build off of it, but Cade wasn't satisfied with the results, since the weapon needed to inflict as much ionization as fast as possible, so I used the CPL data instead and tweaked it.

Quote

In any case, you should decide how much total space you want your ship to have, and then each of you should design from there.

Well, that's one of the main problems, we couldn't decide for total space, hence this is one of the reason this poll exists. You'll find that both our version share many similiar attributes, but much of the difference lies in space, armaments, and outfits.

If you add up the cargo space, free mass, and weapons mass, all three ships have more mass used, then their mass. That doesn't make sense, does it?

Example:
Compromised Version:
Gross total mass: 168
+
Cargo space: 85
+
Weapons: 121

374

The ship's mass says it weighs 150 tons. How does that work?

Most real ship masses refer to displacement and not to weight, but in space I am not sure what it would displace.

I would say I like yours best, just swap the Fusion Pulse turret for the EMP cannon. A Fusion Pulse turret just doesnt fit on a Rebel ship.

To grey_shirt_ninja: there are numerous ships in Nova which have more mass than it says they weigh so that shouldnt matter in the least.

Why not do all three? Use the weakest one as the stock ship and the other two as capturable versions.

@gray-shirt-ninja, on Jul 17 2006, 04:39 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

If you add up the cargo space, free mass, and weapons mass, all three ships have more mass used, then their mass. That doesn't make sense, does it?

Example:
Compromised Version:
Gross total mass: 168
+
Cargo space: 85
+
Weapons: 121

374

The total gross mass does not include cargo space, mass and cargo space are kept seperate from eachother. The total gross mass is the sum of how much mass the stock weapon and outfits take up plus the free mass that remains. Which you should see that it was outlined.

Quote

The ship's mass says it weighs 150 tons. How does that work?

It gives you an idea as to how massive and how big a ship is compared to others despite what the sprite size may show you. This is relevant because it should give you ideas of how much you can equip a ship having this amount of volume when you want to mainatain some realistic stats. Other than that, the function affects how much time hyperspace travel takes up and how big the dot shows up on the radar. Take for example, the star liner and the IDA frigate, they may look similar in size, but when you see that the IDA frigate is around 650 tons, it should tell you that this ship should be more massive and bigger in size than the star liner. However, it is possible ships can be smaller in size compared to big ones but weight more in volume if provided a reasonable advance technology allowed for it, such as the Polaris.

@joshtigerheart, on Jul 17 2006, 07:32 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

Why not do all three? Use the weakest one as the stock ship and the other two as capturable versions.

We do have plans for variants, but the specs of the variants will be based on the final version of the ship that's available for the player to purchase. Also, weaponry and outfits may be armed very differently when given roles assigend to. As you tend to notice, most purchasable versions tend to be weaker in power than other variants.

This post has been edited by Coraxus : 17 July 2006 - 07:36 PM

I always figured that the ship mass was the mas of the spaceframe and vital components and everything else was on top of that.

At least that's the only way I could reason it out...

@keldor-sarn, on Jul 17 2006, 07:37 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

I always figured that the ship mass was the mas of the spaceframe and vital components and everything else was on top of that.

At least that's the only way I could reason it out...

Hmm, makes more sense to me, but then I'm just speculating as well about the mass info.

@coraxus, on Jul 17 2006, 05:33 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

The total gross mass does not include cargo space, mass and cargo space are kept seperate from eachother. The total gross mass is the sum of how much mass the stock weapon and outfits take up plus the free mass that remains. Which you should see that it was outlined.

Hmmm didn't see that :mellow:

In my plug I'm calculating mass based on total free mass, cargo, armor, and weapons. Makes for heavier ships

I say replace the fusion turrets, becuase it seems alittle odd for a tanker(even if its a rebel conversion) to have a "disabling" weapon. I would stick with having point defense weaps and either 4 ir missles launchers with 200 missles or radar missle launchers. Amazingly 4 ir missle launchers can do tons of damage. Its like a chaingun with seeking missles. Takes like 75 i think to disable a pirate starbridge. So it would work nicley on a rebel star liner. The only thing you need is an auto clicker to replenish your missle stocks. :laugh: Also, on the compromised version and the Coraxus version, you have more turrets than the max of your ships. Unless a raven roccket turret doesnt take up one of those spaces. :huh: Although this wont interfere with the game play, it may seem alittle odd to the player when he sells one turret to buy another and finds out he cant buy another turret.

Quote

Coraxus's Version:
Turrets: 3
2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)
1 Fusion turret - (20 tons)
1 Raven Rocket Turret - (15 tons)
2+1+1=4

Compromised Version:
Turrets: 3
3 Fusion turrets - (20 tons each; 60 tons)
2 QLBT's - (20 tons each; 40 tons)
3 Radar missile launcher - (7 tons each; 21 tons)
+ 100 Radar missiles
3+2=5

And what type of weapon is the EMP Cannon?

@chronodrago, on Jul 18 2006, 02:20 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

The only thing you need is an auto clicker to replenish your missle stocks. :laugh:

Where's that plug-in Guy had for this a while back?
:cryptic grin:

@qaanol, on Jul 18 2006, 11:51 AM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

Where's that plug-in Guy had for this a while back?
:cryptic grin:

theres a plugin for that? awesome! Where is it?

@chronodrago, on Jul 18 2006, 01:20 PM, said in The Rebel Star Liner's Spec Layout:

Also, on the compromised version and the Coraxus version, you have more turrets than the max of your ships. Unless a raven roccket turret doesnt take up one of those spaces. :huh:

Yeah, I see we both screwed up on the Compromised version, but the raven rocket pod doesn't take up turret slot, so the players won't have problem selling back the turret pod and not be able to buy them again.

Quote

And what type of weapon is the EMP Cannon?

That weapon is still under work, but it's meant to push away and slow down targets like the PVIV so the ship can make its escape. It's more of a defensive weapon.

This post has been edited by Coraxus : 18 July 2006 - 02:50 PM

Ah, here we go: Multibuy.

View PostGuy, on Oct 26 2005, 08:14 PM, said:

Presenting MultiBuy, the easy way to buy and sell in bulk!
- Get your free copy right here.
- Compatible with any plug.
- Just try it and see!
Updated! Now allows placing custom bets in the gambling dialog!
To fit it in the post though I had to .sitx it and then .zip it so the board would recognise it <_<

Thanks man

When looking at the original specifications, I must say that Coraxus' version is closer in Nova terms.

Why?

First off, you have boosted speed & acceleration in each variant. Speed & Acceleration come at a cost if you look at Nova variants: it (usually) means less total space.
If you look at Coraxus' version, it has more space (cargo + mass) than the armed variant, but only a bit, and this can be seen as a consequence of the lower number of jumps.

So, all in all, from the speed/cargo/space/fuel points of view, Coraxus seems to have created a more balanced and "realistic" version.

That said, I would in fact suggest having the other versions too, but only for AI this time, and just take out the "free mass" space or lower the cargo capacities.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Peter @ ARPIA

Coraxus's version appears to be the most balanced with the Novaverse.