A question of playability and fun.

Poll: Which mission types should be reattemptable? (16 member(s) have cast votes)
Which mission types should be reattemptable?
All missions should be reattemptable. Being forced to restart or cheat when you fail or abort a mission sucks.
(9 votes [56.25%])
Percentage of vote: 56.25%
Major string missions should be reattemptable, minor string mission failures and abortions should be permanent.
(2 votes [12.50%])
Percentage of vote: 12.50%
Minor strings should be reattemptable, as they don't matter much, but for major strings you should only have one chance at per mission.
(2 votes [12.50%])
Percentage of vote: 12.50%
No string missions at all. Any time you abort or fail is absolute. No second chances.
(1 votes [6.25%])
Percentage of vote: 6.25%
Nothing! Every mission, even cargo and passenger delivery ones, should only be available once! Muhahaha!
(2 votes [12.50%])
Percentage of vote: 12.50%

I'm personally in favor of unlimited attempts per mission. The lack of this is one of the things I like least about Nova. I'd like to know how you feel on the matter, that developers might use this knowledge in their TC construction.

I don't think I can answer this, because it really depends on the mission. Even if we limit the discussion to major string missions, you could have a cargo mission that fails if you get scanned. It makes sense to be able to redo that. But then again, for missions where you have to capture but not kill someone, having it be reattemptable makes no sense. After all, how do you capture someone who's already dead? Basically, the developer should judge each mission on its own.

Ideally each mission would totally change the outcome of all of the others on thier failures or sucesses- but that is very unworkable. So I agree with pboat.

I'm in favor of repeatable missions, like the sigma Shipyard one...

Arpia 2 has quite an original way of dealing with this. Works very nicely, as long as it doesn't happen to you too many times.

Qaanol, on Oct 20 2005, 12:06 AM, said:

I'm personally in favor of unlimited attempts per mission. The lack of this is one of the things I like least about Nova. I'd like to know how you feel on the matter, that developers might use this knowledge in their TC construction.
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Agreed.

I am using a system thats probably a bit like Guy is suggesting. I could draw a diagram of how it works, but basically, if you mess up a mission, it makes a new set of missions available. Generally less power and prestige (and pay), but sometimes these 'remedial' missions offer secrets not available otherwise. After too many failures, you are kicked out of that govt and forced to wander the streets naked and lonely, with nobody there to love you, exept perhaps the other team. And when you get bid back to the first one, your pay will jump significantly.

Makes it more RPish than either infinite tries at saving someones life (for example), or having a government suddenly not have any more work for you once you miss some dumb delivery or some the such.

NebuchadnezzaR, on Oct 20 2005, 01:42 PM, said:

nakedView Post

Alternate frames used when KeyCarried (Clothing) is aboard?

This post has been edited by Qaanol : 20 October 2005 - 05:10 PM

Qaanol, on Oct 20 2005, 06:08 PM, said:

Alternate frames used when KeyCarried (Clothing) is aboard?
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For you, honey? Sure.

NebuchadnezzaR, on Oct 21 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

For you, honey? Sure.
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How long has this been going on?

Getting back to the topic at hand...

I like what NebuchadnezzaR is saying.

I thought you would. We have tapes.

In general, missions should be attemptable an infinite number of times. However, on occasion one should throw in a branch or "alternate outcome" just for variety.

However, I actually prefer that sort of thing to be based on player choices, rather than player skill.

All missions are reattemtible.
Nova Folder > Pilot Files > The Apple Cřre > command-D.

Lindley, on Oct 24 2005, 10:49 PM, said:

In general, missions should be attemptable an infinite number of times. However, on occasion one should throw in a branch or "alternate outcome" just for variety.

However, I actually prefer that sort of thing to be based on player choices, rather than player skill.
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Hmm, I preffer skill, but I might make it clear to the player when a certain failure will force him down into the next teir of organisations.

How would the player know which to chose anyway? I'd rather it mattered more what he did out in battle than what he thinks he wants to do based upon walkthroughs/guides that have been posted, or some the such.

The problem with the skill approach is that the only skill relevant in Nova is combat, unless a memory type game is played involving remembering odd things about locations or people and then being asked to find them again...

Problem? Thats like the whole point of the game. If the progress of the charachter doesn't depend on the skill of the player, then the player has no real vested interest in his charachter's standing/status. The game is already heavily reliant on combat, it makes sense to tie it into the story.

It is possible for a scenario to be created where "alternate realities" exist when a player fails a mission, and it is possible for these to be really good scenarios. However, in plugins or the stock game when alternate realities are not an integral part of the experience, especially when a story is being told to the player, it is important, in my view, to guarantee the player success. In a way, "alternate realities" are successes, so I would count "failing" a mission in those scenarios as "succeeding differently" (think Rebel string so that would just be a completed step, and there'd be no reason to repeat it.

When there's only one reality, though, failing shouldn't just end everything, and thus missions should be reattemptable. Perhaps a "failure tax" that just takes away some of your money when you mess up, but other than that, permanent penalties should be reserved for strict play.

Qaanol, on Oct 26 2005, 10:09 AM, said:

permanent penalties should be reserved for strict play.
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Now that would be awesome! A test operator to see if you're in strict mode or not.
Oh, I guess you could achieve the same thing with chars though. Have Easy Medium Hard instead of Trader ThisGovt ThatGovt.

This post has been edited by Guy : 25 October 2005 - 04:34 PM

I think a good storyline will combine, and mix in-flight events with on the ground events. For instance I liked in the Polaris storyline where on one mission there would be a Krypt Pod in a system you were doing something in and later one of the characters in the storyline mentioned something about it to you. These kind of tie ins between in space events and storyline events are great and should happen more often and with greater effect in my opinion.

I'm not afraid of giving the player difficult in-flight missions to complete. Large battles, or tricky in space problems are fun. But I'm also not afraid to have my storyline cause negative consequences to the player. I mean, I'm awarding the player money and access to new ships and new technology all the time, why not have not so happy things happen as well? In fact, I am not against outright killing the player on the ground if he makes a bad choice completely unrelated to combat or piloting skill, I've actually written at least one such occurrence into my storyline already. I suppose I look at it this way: Thinking is a skill too.

Oh, as for the poll, I voted for: "Every mission should be either be repeatable or not repeatable depending on what the logic behind the storyline dictates"

This post has been edited by Ragashingo : 25 October 2005 - 06:46 PM