Here's a question -- if you have a mission that advances the date considerably, do the cröns that would havebeen evaluated and activated if you were playing normally get evaluated and activate during that time? For instance, if I have a bunch of ship AppearOn ncbs that get activated by cröns, and I want to, say, incarcerate someone for a crime they may commit at any time (note that this is not a set time, but, rather, a consequence of stealing ships and then landing on those ships' government's planets), will those cröns that activate the AppearOn ncbs be active during that downtime?

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Hmmm. Thats a very intriguing question.
A test would be very simple to make - Keep a debuglog too (useful when working with crons and mbits)
In any case, if these crons are to happen at spesific times (ie, on a spesific date), set that as the first year/month/day to that date, and ignore the last y/m/d fields, and with random set to 100%, even if they dont go off while the player is in prison, they will all go off when he next takes off.
-Az
Great idea for making life hard on people who capture ships!

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I don't have time to test it right now, (especially since I'm not on MY computer), but I've been wondering about that as well- SS has some "get thrown in Prison"-type scenarios as well, and if a cron fails to operate during that time we'd be screwed. Actually, if ANY cron fails to operate when it should the plug would pretty much fall apart.... and there's lots of them.

On a related note, did we ever come to a conclusion about the Activation % for crons? Is it a daily check at that %, or is it a % chance of occuring over the duration of the cron? Currently, all my crons are at 100%, with all wildcards, so they go off as soon as the right bits get set, but I'll be needing some random ones pretty quick.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

It's gotta be per day, otherwise the Thoriumreactorus cheapus would sometimes fail to evolve into Thoriumreactorus explosiveus, but since it always does eventually, the check must be per day.
Hmm, i suppose when you use crons like your site talks about being done in SS, it would be a disaster if one fails to go off.
Are you aware of what happens if you have Duration, Preholdoff, and Postholdoff of zero? (it will end up running OnEnd more than it should).
Also, you should investigate the stock scenario's anomalous crons - it has some crons that never go away and run thier OnEnd every day, when they should be long gone.
-Az

What anomalous crons?
From the debug log of any pilot:
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6021' (terminating cron 184)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6022' (terminating cron 185)
evaluating ncb set string '!b6033' (terminating cron 192)
That was from 6 days of game time. It just goes on and on like that
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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 12-23-2003).)

Thanks for the heads-up, Azratax. I'll investigate that. However, from just what you posted, everything seems to be fine- you said that that was the result of 6 game days, and unless my math is wrong, each cron terminated 6 times. That would be the correct behavior, as far as I understand it.

OK. I'm going to do a few tests of different things. One will be the cron activation. BRB with results!

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**Thanks for the heads-up, Azratax. I'll investigate that. However, from just what you posted, everything seems to be fine- you said that that was the result of 6 game days, and unless my math is wrong, each cron terminated 6 times. That would be the correct behavior, as far as I understand it.

OK. I'm going to do a few tests of different things. One will be the cron activation. BRB with results!

**

Hmmm. Then we understand different behaviours to be correct: shouldnt crons only terminate ONCE, and then, well, be terminated? Those crons in question are:
V Rare Aur/Fed Syst Change 4 SPC-034
V Rare Aur/Fed Syst Change 5 Kerella
Reb/Fed Syst Change 1 Nesre Primus
Which logically would want to end and be ended. And they stay terminating daily for far more than even thier 100 day post holdoff might suggest - i have seen thier duration counters in the negative thousands.

-Az

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Yup. It works. Crons are evaluated during a Date Post Inc delay. I waited 10 years in Sephil Saga. Took it about 30 seconds to calculate everything, but all the crons were triggered at the correct times.

Other discovery (which is GREAT news for SS): if you put Fuel Scoop on an outfit multiple times, every instance works! Of course, that's how it should be, but I wasn't expecting it.

EDIT: Reply to Azratax: I didn't take a look at the actual crons, Az. I assumed the had 0 post and pre holdoff and 0 duration. In this case, the expected behavior (as I understand it and use it) would be to activate every day, and terminate every day. If there is no OnStart string, the Debug log doesn't mention them starting- only the termination, since it has to evaluate something. If there is indeed a post holdoff on any of those crons, then something is indeed wrong. I'll investigate!

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

(This message has been edited by Masamune (edited 12-23-2003).)

Hmm... just checked out those crons you pointed out. You're right- they DEFINATELY shouldn't be doing what they are doing.

You might want to report this on the bug list- you found another one! Now, if only they would fix my problem with weapons deleting themselves.... implementation my butt!

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**Hmm... just checked out those crons you pointed out. You're right- they DEFINATELY shouldn't be doing what they are doing.

You might want to report this on the bug list- you found another one! Now, if only they would fix my problem with weapons deleting themselves.... implementation my butt!

**

What bug is that with weapons deleting themselves?
Where is this bug list to report to?
-Az

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Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
What bug is that with weapons deleting themselves?
Where is this bug list to report to?
-Az

As I recall, Dave is handling bugs. So the closest thing to a bug list would likely be (url="http://"mailto:pipeline@mac.com")mailto:pipeline@mac.com(/url)pipeline@mac.com

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
As I recall, Dave is handling bugs. So the closest thing to a bug list would likely be mailto:pipeline@mac.compipeline@mac.com

Dave has been emailed (it's partly a scenario issue anyway)
Azzy doesnt want to see Sephil Saga run into runaway cron problems. I've been really looking forward to SS - it sounds damn cool.
-Az

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Not to worry! Everything is proceeding according to plan.... yes... excellent....

We're really rocking along right now... things are clicking, gears are meshing, and the team is highly motivated.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
it sounds damn cool.
-Az

Oh, it is. Believe me.

By the way, Charlie, after seeing UT's board, I think we're screwed. SFA is probably gonna come out first, unless we work our asses off, and I'm not supposed to be on the computer so yeah...

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Masamune, try setting the duration to at least one. I believe that crons with 0 duration act strangely, and setting the duration to 1 will guarantee that the terminate and start fields are not getting tested at the same time. I hope that made sense...

Azratax2, weapons delete themselves if they are put on a ship by default, but there is no outfit for the weapon that is on the ship. Is this the case with you?

~ SpacePirate

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Eat blazing electric death!

Quote

Originally posted by SpacePirate:
**Masamune, try setting the duration to at least one. I believe that crons with 0 duration act strangely, and setting the duration to 1 will guarantee that the terminate and start fields are not getting tested at the same time. I hope that made sense...

Azratax2, weapons delete themselves if they are put on a ship by default, but there is no outfit for the weapon that is on the ship. Is this the case with you?

~ SpacePirate

**

I dont have a problem, masamune mentioned a problem with weapons deleting themselves
-Az

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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 12-25-2003).)

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
**I dont have a problem, masamune mentioned a problem with weapons deleting themselves
-Az

**

Ah, true. Well, the question still stands, for whoever had it.

~ SP

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Eat blazing electric death!

Quote

Originally posted by SpacePirate:
**Ah, true. Well, the question still stands, for whoever had it.:)

~ SP**

I doubt it. It's well documented (sort of), and anybody developing a weapon should know that. I don't think he's that (hehe) stupid. Of course, I could be wrong.

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Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
Yup. It works. Crons are evaluated during a Date Post Inc delay. I waited 10 years in Sephil Saga. Took it about 30 seconds to calculate everything, but all the crons were triggered at the correct times.

That's great. I may use that for my chärs that start in later eras.

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
By the way, Charlie, after seeing UT's board, I think we're screwed. SFA is probably gonna come out first, unless we work our asses off, and I'm not supposed to be on the computer so yeah...

Dude, it's not a contest.

(Though to be fair, I kinda hope SS comes out after, because I anticipate playing it a lot and I don't want it distracting me from working on SFA...)

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Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
**I doubt it. It's well documented (sort of), and anybody developing a weapon should know that. I don't think he's that (hehe) stupid. Of course, I could be wrong.

**

No, I'm not... I don't think so at least. I can't find the topic where I asked about the problem, but it's very obscure and very specific. I have an outfit that does nothing, X. There is another outfit, a WEAPON (<-important), Y, whose availability is oX, onPurchase dX, onSell gX. Now, when you buy Y, X is deleted, but SO IS Y! (and before you ask, no, Y is not set to be removed on purchase, or any rookie mistakes like that!) You end up with nothing! Now, this ONLY happens when Y is a weapon. Don't ask me why that is. I don't know. Somebody else independantly verified it once- man, I wish I could find that topic again- it is a bug, I did report it, but Gage said it was determined to be an implementation bug. B. S. I've done the same arrangement countless times in SS- it's almost my trademark!

Oh well. It has nothing to do with crons, which are all behaving properly, and we need not go off-topic.

UncleTwitchy, yeah, it's not a race (I say that only because we're losing :frown:). But it sure is a great way to get a fire under my lazy team's butt! hehehe.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)