Of plug distribution and bin files

Azratax2

How can one, on a mac, turn a plugin file into a .bin file? This was done by Terek'E'Ban for distributing plugpack 16.
Secondly, does .bin retain all the relevant information, even for mac version? (ie, type and creator fields) How easy/hard is it for mac users to de .bin a file?

My proposal is something like:
Distribute a plug as a zipped .bin. This gets around the tendoncy of stuffit to do wierd things - Everyone can open zip files right? And the data in .bin's are maintained in the zip format
Mac users can unzip it and (if its not done automatically - stuffit seems to like to recursively open archives on mac) de bin it, and are good to go.
PC users can unzip it and convert the plugin files (prehapse using an included .bat file to convert the plugin, and delete the resource.map).
-Az

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Mazca

A .bin is a MacBinary file. They do indeed hold on to all the relevant data.

There are plenty of macbinary encoders around for Mac - have a search on Versiontracker for 'macbinary'. StuffIt also decodes them just fine.

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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
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(This message has been edited by Mazca (edited 11-11-2003).)

Azratax2

Quote

Originally posted by Mazca:
**A .bin is a MacBinary file. They do indeed hold on to all the relevant data.

There are plenty of macbinary encoders around for Mac - have a search on Versiontracker for 'macbinary'. StuffIt also decodes them just fine.

**

Cool cool. Um, note that I do not know what versiontracker is. I am a PC user, and I only have an old mac for plug development (power tower pro upgraded to g3 with dysfunctional network card, running os 8.6). I dont actually know much about mac spesific stuff, which is why I asked about this.
What is versiontracker?
Thanks
-Az

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Mazca

(url="http://"http://www.versiontracker.com")VersionTracker(/url) is a good program finding/downloading site. Sorry, I should have been more clear to start with.

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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
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Azratax2

Yay. Thanks.
-Az

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orcaloverbri9

Well, I know StuffitDeluxe can make .bin files...

List (v 6.0.1) of file formats Stuffit Deluxe can create (in one command) for no particular reason: .sit, .hqx, .sit.hqx, .sea.hqx, .bin , .sit.bin , .sea.bin , .as, .zip, .uu, .zip.uu, .tar, .Z, .bzip, .gzip, .tar.Z, .tar.bzip, .tar.gzip, .lha, .sea, .exe (Windows self extracting, not Windows application), .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, etc. (segments)

(emphasis on one-command compressions including .bin, if you're too blind to see that)

No clue about Windows users. You may be able to do it with just the Stuffit Expander for WinblowI mean, Windows. I know it is definately possible to make .zip files with it, but .bin I don't know. So helpful, wasn't I?

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.

(This message has been edited by orcaloverbri9 (edited 11-11-2003).)

mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
Stuffit Expander for WinblowI mean, Windows.

Now, now, play nice :).

orcaloverbri9

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
**Now, now, play nice:).

**

Grins evilly

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.

Azratax2

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
**Well, I know StuffitDeluxe can make .bin files...

List (v 6.0.1) of file formats Stuffit Deluxe can create (in one command) for no particular reason: .sit, .hqx, .sit.hqx, .sea.hqx, .bin, .sit.bin, .sea.bin, .as, .zip, .uu, .zip.uu, .tar, .Z, .bzip, .gzip, .tar.Z, .tar.bzip, .tar.gzip, .lha, .sea, .exe (Windows self extracting, not Windows application), .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, etc. (segments)

(emphasis on one-command compressions including .bin, if you're too blind to see that)

No clue about Windows users. You may be able to do it with just the Stuffit Expander for WinblowI mean, Windows. I know it is definately possible to make .zip files with it, but .bin I don't know. So helpful, wasn't I?

**

There is no way to do this on windows until someone makes a windows app to turn a .rez into a .rsrc or .bin - this packaging method requires a mac But other than that, i think I understand the basics of this. I will be doing a pilot of this RSN (Real Soon Now). Its more work for a plug maker, but for someone with a big time plug to release, it would make sense.
-Az

Orca: Winblows? In this case the program that "blows" would be the stuffit for windows, which is made by a company that never seems to have had it's act together (even on macs, apparently, in some previous versions, Stuffit had problems), and cannot be counted on for reliable extraction of plugs. When dealing with stuffed plugins on windows, the .sit extension seems fitting: SIT - Sometimes It's Trashed. Bah.

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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 11-12-2003).)

orcaloverbri9

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
**Orca: Winblows? In this case the program that "blows" would be the stuffit for windows, which is made by a company that never seems to have had it's act together (even on macs, apparently, in some previous versions, Stuffit had problems), and cannot be counted on for reliable extraction of plugs. When dealing with stuffed plugins on windows, the .sit extension seems fitting: SIT - Sometimes It's Trashed. Bah.

**

A) It was a joke.
I don't like Windows.
C) It was a joke.
D) Yeas Stuffit for Windows ain't all that great, but that ain't the point.
E) It was a joke.

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.

Guest_UE_Research & Development_*

Sigh

There was one point at which making such comments could get one kicked from the boards. Do you think that everyone can simply ditch their Wintel machines and purchase nice, new, shiny G5s? It's not that simple: cost is by far the most limiting factor. Please stay on topic next time.

Has anyone actually asked Terek'E'Ban how he did it? It would be interesting to see what he said, if only to save people the time to muck around with settings until something usable came out.

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Azratax2

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
**A) It was a joke.
I don't like Windows.
C) It was a joke.
D) Yeas Stuffit for Windows ain't all that great, but that ain't the point.
E) It was a joke.

**

a) And I intended my responding rant to be joking as well.
I don't like MacOS. (Though i recognize that, especially in the past, Windows can be pretty bad too)
c) And I intended my responding rant to be joking as well.
d) Its not the point of your comment, but it is a point behind the posting of this topic - since winStuffit is unreliable (and most users have not the skill or patience to make it work), if one wants the maximum audience for a plug, distributing it as .sit'ed plugs is not the answer. Right? We dont want PC users to get all frustrated with EVN plugs and give up on it.
e) And I intended my responding rant to be joking as well.

I agree:

UER&D;:
You mean talk to someone who has already done what I am trying to do? That would be like.... like reading the readme!
-Az

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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 11-12-2003).)

orcaloverbri9

Quote

And I intended my responding rant to be joking as well.

You should have made it a little more obvious...I actually thought that was serious.

Quote

I don't like MacOS. (Though i recognize that, especially in the past, Windows can be pretty bad too)

I still say it's better. But, you know, this debate has gone on for a long, long time, and rarely has one side pulled the other over with them. It's pointless to begin an argument (however fuun it may be :)).

Quote

Its not the point of your comment, but it is a point behind the posting of this topic - since winStuffit is unreliable (and most users have not the skill or patience to make it work), if one wants the maximum audience for a plug, distributing it as .sit'ed plugs is not the answer. Right? We dont want PC users to get all frustrated with EVN plugs and give up on it.

So do what a few others have done: release two seperate versions. Make one a .zip (possibly a .exe self-extracting (bleh...hate this .exe meaning either an application or compressed file thing...) as well), and make it clear that it is the Winbl—Windows version, not the Mac, andvice-versa. i believe the EVO for EVN scenario did this (though I don't know about the zipping), and most likely quite a few more that I'm too lazy to check for..

Aprosenf needs to make EVNEW so that it can edit Mac plug-in files. (joke there—don't feel obliged to practically rewrite EVNEW for this, Aprosenf)

Quote

You mean talk to someone who has already done what I am trying to do? That would be like.... like reading the readme!

:eek: Oh my gosh! What a horrid thought! hides

UE: would you please look at the statement that was emphasised by repeating it twice?

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Microsquash Winblows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)

Aprosenf

Quote

Aprosenf needs to make EVNEW so that it can edit Mac plug-in files. (joke theredon't feel obliged to practically rewrite EVNEW for this, Aprosenf)

Even though that's a joke, I don't think it would be very useful anyways. Obviously, EVNEW can't handle .sit, .bin, .hqx, or .sea files, and I've been messing around and I haven't been able to successfully run StuffIt from inside EVNEW to decompress a file at runtime, and even if I could, I don't think there would be a way to tell it to preserve resource forks in MacBinary through the shell. With unstuffed Mac plugins, though, if people are smart enough to get to that point themselves, it's a cinch to drop the unstuffed file onto the converter. My point is that I can't do anything with stuffed plugs, and it won't be useful to open MacBinary files since people who have those can easily convert them to .rez files. I suppose the only possible thing would be to save plugins to MacBinary so that they could be preconverted for Mac users, but now this returns to your previous point in that I'm not going to add that support because I don't know how to write MacBinary files and it would take a lot of work to do that even if I knew how.

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(This message has been edited by Aprosenf (edited 11-13-2003).)

Azratax2

Quote

So do what a few others have done: release two seperate versions. Make one a .zip (possibly a .exe self-extracting (bleh...hate this .exe meaning either an application or compressed file thing...) as well), and make it clear that it is the WinblWindows version, not the Mac, andvice-versa. i believe the EVO for EVN scenario did this (though I don't know about the zipping), and most likely quite a few more that I'm too lazy to check for..

My objective here is to sidestep the need to release the plugin twice, for a few reasons.
1. It gives the impression that pc and mac plugs are incompatable, and many people on the boards seem to think this (when people put "Sorry windows users, no .rez version yet" in the readmes, who can blame them for thinking this? The corrupted windows versions on the addons page dont help either)
2. It doubles the amount of space requires for hosting the plugin. Consider a TC hosted in two formats!
3. It makes life more complicated for the user.
A zipped pile of .bin's should achieve all these goals, especialy if included with a .bat to do the windows conversion.
I will make a test plug some time in the near future to demonstrate this concept.

And while it can be confusing that .exe can mean an application or a self-extracting file, a self extracting file on PCs technically IS an application, whose only function is to decompresses internally stored data to an outside file. On that level it makes sense.

Anyone know if there is a windows registry key that stores the EVN path, or did Contraband avoid the registry?
-Az

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orcaloverbri9

(quote)Originally posted by Azratax2:
(QUOTE)And while it can be confusing that .exe can mean an application or a self-extracting file, a self extracting file on PCs technically IS an application, whose only function is to decompresses internally stored data to an outside file. On that level it makes sense. (/quote)

Yes, I know. I realized that a few minutes after posting that. I'm just too lazy to fix it.

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Microsquash Winblows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)

mrxak

I thought I said to play nice. Oh well, at least you've worked out your differences by the time I bothered to check back :).

As for plug distribution, I think that a .bin.zip is the best solution for all at this point.

orcaloverbri9

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
**I thought I said to play nice. Oh well, at least you've worked out your differences by the time I bothered to check back:).

As for plug distribution, I think that a .bin.zip is the best solution for all at this point.

**

Since when does anyone listen to, of all people, a moderator?

Okay. I'll stop.

Aprosenf, that serious post wasn't really necessary—even with the tiny amount of programming I know, I know for a fact it would be extremely difficult to do such a thing.

But hell, EVNEW's open-source, so if someone was insane enough to try this (not neccesarily entirely serious), they could...

mrxak: Okay. i'll stop calling Winb—Windows "Winblows."

(sorry, couldn't help but throw some irony in there...)

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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Microsquash Winblows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)

Dr. Trowel

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
**As for plug distribution, I think that a .bin.zip is the best solution for all at this point.

**

".bin.zip"? Aw jeez. I've sent 2 things to the add-ons page as ".sit.hqx", produced on a mac with Stuffit 5.5.1. 'Nothing to do now but wait and see if people can get them to work, I guess.

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mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
< snip>

Uh, I thought I was saying that you had stopped, at least before I showed up again.

Oh well, forget about it.

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Of plug distribution and bin files