Hello, everyone. I'm new.

First, I would like to say a big thanks to David Arthur, for making Mission Computer 3.0. It totally rocks. It runs just fine under OS7.5, which means that it's perfect for those of us who have to develop plug-ins on emulated Mac's.

Second, I'm starting my plug-in, and I wanted to throw some ideas out for feedback. I thought maybe we could discuss the technical details, to help out the plug-in community as a whole. If anyone can take any of these ideas and make them work, fantastic. I have a tendency to write in numbered lists, so...

1. Jump points, ala Starfire. For those of you not familiar with that gaming system, the general idea is there is no faster-than-light travel. Instead, there are points in space that instantly whisk you to another such point in space in a different system. Of course, from a combat standpoint, having a defined entry point into a system means that the defenders would have some hefty firepower parked on the jump point. By implementing such a system and disabling normal hyperspace, one could change the EVN experience radiacally.

Wormholes and/or hypergates sound ideal for this sort of application. Which would you use if you wanted each jump point to connect to one and only one other? How would you create the jump point defenses? How to disable normal hyperspace? (I'd just increase the radius where you can't hs, but are there more elegant solutions?)

2. Fewer, more populated systems. Every EV game or mod I've ever seen has, at most, 5 stellar objects in a system. From all that I've read in the Bible, there's no reason to limit it so low. Why not have a galaxy with fewer systems, but have each system with 15-20 stellars? You could shoot for a "Duke of Uranium" feel, for anyone familiar with those books.

3. Ionization. I hate the way it is implemented in EVN. What are some good uses for this feature? What crazy things can it be used for? Maybe have your escorts shoot you with it, then when you reach full "charge" be able to fire a large shot (like all those little beams making the big beam on the Death Star).

I'm going to be on the Gulf of Mexico for the next to weeks, and we don't get Internet on the ship (heh). Hopefully I've said something crazy or controversial enough to keep this discussion going until I come back. During my down time out there I'll be working on my plug-in, maybe I'll have something cool when I get back.

Any other wacky ideas, or gameplay comments, toss 'em out.

Peace,
Luck

how long have you been playing EVNova? i ask, becuase more then half the things you talk about, arn't possable.

each system can only hold 16 stellars. to have so few systems, with so many stellars inside, would be just plain lazy.

you can't have your escourts shoot you. you could'nt even be able to target your self, let alone have you own escourts whoot at you.

and i just plain don't think that you #1 subject makes any sense.

maybe i'm just reading everything wrong.

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Welcome to the Boards, Luck. The jump points is a good idea. You would want to use hypergates to implement it rather than wormholes since you cannot control where you end up with wormholes. For disabling hyperspace, really the only way to do it would be keep every system isolated so that there are no connections to any others systems. Then make hypergates connect each system. I like the pirates sitting in wait concept but I don't think that it's possible to create in Nova.

I think Nova kept the number of systems down because it makes trading too easy. You can just hop from planet to planet. Also keep in mind that missions with random spob locations will not choose any spob in the same system. Here you also might run into problems with not getting these missions since the systems aren't connected, not sure at all though here.

Ionization only makes your ship more vulnerable to attack by slowing it down. There's no way to make your escorts shoot you and there's no way to charge your ship or weapons through ionization.

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first of all, welcome to the boards. you've just made another big step along the path away from free time which you started when you first got ev.
as to your suggestions, i've only really done the first (haven't done #2 due to lack of creativity, and i don't know that much can be done with #3 w/o changing the engine), in a tc i've been working on (just for myself really, i doubt it'll ever be done enough for me to release it) based on the honor harrington series. if you're not familiar with the series, it includes two major means of interstellar travel:
first there's hyperspace: several (possibly infinitely many, but only some are accessible in practice) levels of space on top n-space, each of which having some amount of "compression" in its interaction with the level below it (i.e. going 10 feet in the second level is equivalent to goint 20 feet in the first level or 40 feet in n-space). this allows a ship to effectively travel faster than light, even though it never really goes faster than light.
the second method is wormholes, which allow instantaneous travel across great distances, but which only exist in certain places. the "good guys" in the series are located in a system which contains the largest wormhole junction in known space: six wormholes connect it with other systems, and each of the six wormholes is surrounded by a whole lot of really big weapon platforms. in my plug, b/c there's a limit of 16 stellars per system, i made one hypergate which links to six others, and surrounded it with four "bases." the "bases" were all stellar objects with quite powerful weapons (two had really fast versions of the biggest lasers, the other two had really fast versions of the biggest missile launchers). the problem with that, though, was the speed when exiting the hypergate: because ships exit hypergates at full speed, it was usually possible for a ship to make it past the defenders w/o taking fatal damage.
so i guess the point of all that was this: fixed defenses on a hypergate or wormhole can be made with other stellars (ones you can't land on and which have powerful weapons), but you have to put the defenses far enough out that they can catch ships at full speed

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WWJD for a Klondike bar?

Actually, I think his first point makes the most sense. I considered doing a TC for a while, but eventually decided against it cince I'm pretty busy as it is and wouldn't be able to make decent graphics. Forcing the player to use hypergates most of the time could be a more realistic way to travel, prevent people from being able to flee combat so easily, make the cost of jumping between systems higher (via. hypergate tolls), enable you to easily close off parts of the universe, allow the emphasis for fuel to be placed on powering weapons/cloaks/etc, rather then jumping (in fact, the idea of having every outfit exert a fuel drain has some merit here if you give people decent size fuel tanks) and allow hyperadvanced civilisations (i.e. those that can jump without using hypergates) to be easily represented. Of course, not all of these ideas are necessarily compatible with each other, but it certainly shows that his point has some merit I think.

In reply to Luck, to disable normal hyperspace, simply don't create links between systems, or don't give ships sufficient fuel to make jumps. Each hypergate can have links specified for it, so you can easily have them connected to one and only one other hypergate and have multiple gates in systems.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

Hey everyone,

To clarify my #3, I thought if you could set a bit when your ship became ion-ized, and then only allow the weapon to fire when that bit was set, you could create a "charged" weapon. Then you could have a "shield" that stores incoming energy and fires it back.

Maybe even have it so that if you don't fire it within a certain time ("remove" the "charge"), it starts damaging your armor.

Of course, the "many stellars to a system, few systems" thing would be for the feel of the particular mod. Good to know 16 is the max, I missed that reading the Bible.

For my first point, if hypergates are the way to go, I have a question about hypergates. I feel the map screen is a big interuption to the flow of the game, especially in a tense combat situation that you are fleeing from. Thus, is there a way to remove the map pop-up when you "land" on a hypergate? Say, you just hit the Land key while your ship is over the gate, and boom, you are in the next system. Much more spine-tingling....

Thanks for the welcomes.

Peace,
Luck

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Removing the map would require changing the engine, AFAIK. Wormholes don't bring the map up, but they're harder to control. Unless you only want each wormhole to link to one other wormhole. In that case, they're perfectly adequate.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

i feel absoluty horrable for forgiting to welcome you to the board.

and i apoligze whole heartedly for being so incredably rude. i wet back, and reread you 1st subject. turns out, i mistaken the 2 paragraphs for 2 seprate subjects.

there is no excuse for my rudness and misbehavior, and if there is any information you need, i'll do my absolut best to help you with it, or find it for it. sorry again.

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go here for all your Res Edit Needs(has no Escape Velocity Related item).

Wow.. awsome idea...
Welcome to the boards.

(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum9/HTML/004226.html")koff(/url)

Your idea is similar, yet radically different. I'd like to see if you could make it work.

Some of the other ideas wouldn't be easy to implement, but if you use your imagination, you could fudge it. For instance, if you want a weapon that has to charge, you could set the ship to have less than a jump's worth of fuel and give it a hyper-ramscoop. Finally, the weapon should consume maybe 50 units of fuel when fired. After maybe 30 seconds it could fire if you set the fuel regeneration right.

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The bake sale to raise money for the car wash has been canceled due to confusion.

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Originally posted by B Rob:
**koff
**

Now, just because you're the first person to post about an idea doesn't mean you're the first to think of or implement it and certainly doesn't mean you can 'claim' it for yourself. Surely we're all here to exchange ideas and encourage the creation of as many good plugs as possible, rather than plant flags on concepts?

(This message has been edited by Jonathan Boyd (edited 08-07-2003).)

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Originally posted by Jonathan Boyd:
**Removing the map would require changing the engine, AFAIK. Wormholes don't bring the map up, but they're harder to control. Unless you only want each wormhole to link to one other wormhole. In that case, they're perfectly adequate.

**

Yeah, in order to make the map not come up, make each wormnole link to one other wormhole. Also, it fits better with the "jump point" idea because the wormholes are natural, while the hypergates are man-made.

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Originally posted by froggy:
**Yeah, in order to make the map not come up, make each wormnole link to one other wormhole. Also, it fits better with the "jump point" idea because the wormholes are natural, while the hypergates are man-made.
**

Just occurred to me that there is one problem with it - you can't control who lands on wormholes.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

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Originally posted by Jonathan Boyd:
**Just occurred to me that there is one problem with it - you can't control who lands on wormholes.

**

Can you control who uses jump points?

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I'm president of the United States and I refuse to eat broccoli! - George H. W. Bush
If the opposite of pro is con, then the opposite of progress is Congress!
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Originally posted by froggy:
**Can you control who uses jump points?

**

Hypergate ones? Giving them a governemnt should work, I imagine. It's how I was planning to do it.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

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Originally posted by Jonathan Boyd:
**

Quote

Originally posted by froggy:
**Can you control who uses jump points?

**

Hypergate ones? Giving them a governemnt should work, I imagine. It's how I was planning to do it.

**

No, I mean, in the concept that you're basing this on, can the governments of the systems control entry into the jump points?

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I'm president of the United States and I refuse to eat broccoli! - George H. W. Bush
If the opposite of pro is con, then the opposite of progress is Congress!
(url="http://"http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/")Lost in Translation(/url)

As was mentioned by someone earlier, with the use of heavy / multiple defensive platforms to guard those points, you don't need absolute control over who uses these 'jump points'. If you know where they are entering the system, you can position defenses appropriately - in the case of the Nova Engine, you can set at which angle a ship exits a wormhole or hypergate; in the stock scenario, that angle is, what, 120ş? In theory, place several platforms off a short way at about 120ş. Since it's exiting the 'point' at full speed, it winds up flying right into the defenders. As for the possibility of surviving "w/o taking fatal damage," that's what fleets are for...

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Originally posted by Eugene Chin:
**As was mentioned by someone earlier, with the use of heavy / multiple defensive platforms to guard those points, you don't need absolute control over who uses these 'jump points'. If you know where they are entering the system, you can position defenses appropriately - in the case of the Nova Engine, you can set at which angle a ship exits a wormhole or hypergate; in the stock scenario, that angle is, what, 120ş? In theory, place several platforms off a short way at about 120ş. Since it's exiting the 'point' at full speed, it winds up flying right into the defenders. As for the possibility of surviving "w/o taking fatal damage," that's what fleets are for...

**

Depends. If you're clustered together, you could end up losing the entire fleet. One of the planetary defences I've instaled in C4N is a volley of high-yield missiles. We're talking homing pigeons with space bombs. It hurts. I had landed on a planet that didn't like me (after a judiciously large bribe of course), with 6 fighters deployed from my Kestrel. Made the modifications to the plug, forgetting where I was and ran Nova...

The wreckage of the fighters hit 0.9c on their way towards the edge of the map and my shields collapsed before I'd finished depressing the afterburner button. So yes, weapons platforms, suitably armed, should work fine. Since they can only carry one gun, use ones with burst fire to simulate multiple emplacements.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

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Originally posted by Jonathan Boyd:
**Now, just because you're the first person to post about an idea doesn't mean you're the first to think of or implement it and certainly doesn't mean you can 'claim' it for yourself. Surely we're all here to exchange ideas and encourage the creation of as many good plugs as possible, rather than plant flags on concepts?
**

I'll probably wind up not even using that idea anyway. I was just pointing out a different variation on the whole system thing. I hoped it would stimulate Luck's creativity. I certainly wouldn't post something here if I didn't want it to ever be used by someone else. In fact, the whole point of the original post was to see if others would do something with it.

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The bake sale to raise money for the car wash has been canceled due to confusion.

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Originally posted by B Rob:
I'll probably wind up not even using that idea anyway. I was just pointing out a different variation on the whole system thing. I hoped it would stimulate Luck's creativity. I certainly wouldn't post something here if I didn't want it to ever be used by someone else. In fact, the whole point of the original post was to see if others would do something with it.

<grovel>Yeah, sorry, I was being unreasonable there. </grovel>

I'm too young to be acting like a grouchy old man...

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