Ok, another question relating to the boudaries of what is relavent or not. This time it relates to other peoples work and how much you can gain from it, before it ceases to be your own. Hundreds of films and books take alot from each other, and so to do Escape Velocity plug ins.

Now to what degree can you 'take' things from other peoples work, I'm not talking about graphics, or taking resources out of someone elses work. I'm talking about ideas - and not just from plugs, films books or anything.

With science fiction taking stuff from other people is very difficult to avoid - I mean what story doesn't have a traditional laser cannon? In Nova the Kane Band is taken from Arthur C. Clarkes "3001", and who knows where he got it from.

Where is the line drawn? When does it cease to become just inspiration and turn into plagiarism?

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"You gotta ask yourself a question, do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?"
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

... interesting question ... Whenever I'm writing something (like an essay or short story or something) and I come across a clever idea belonging to someone else, I first check with them to see if it's okay to use it. If I can't do that, I try to add at least one original detail to the idea, so that it has its own unique little twist. Of course when you're dealing with plugins, you could probably get away with stealing just about anything, because nobody's losing any money or business, but it's nice to at least tell people where you got the idea. Just try to give enough credit to the source that nobody gets hurt.

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(url="http://"http://www.70megs.com/elcheapo/Title.html")el cheapo's dump(/url)

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Originally posted by thedecline:
With science fiction taking stuff from other people is very difficult to avoid - I mean what story doesn't have a traditional laser cannon? In Nova the Kane Band is taken from Arthur C. Clarkes "3001", and who knows where he got it from.

Bad examples. No one "made up" the laser cannon. Lasers are actual things, and thus it wouldn't be copying from anything other than something that actually exists. As for the Kane Band, habitat rings attached to the Earth are not new ideas. People were postulating them back in the 1960's and 1970's. Same thing with the colonies from Gundam (those cylinders with 3 mirrors). There was an actual person who theorized that such colonies would be possible, and the creators of the series took those theories and acted as if they came true.

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**Where is the line drawn? When does it cease to become just inspiration and turn into plagiarism?
**

Easy. It's plagerism if you don't acknowledge where you got the idea. The question is, when does it become copyright infringement? As I am not well versed in copyright law (that is to say, not at all), you might want to talk to a lawyer who is. Of course, a bunch of people on these boards are

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

There's creating and there's copying. I think it's as simple as that. Furthermore, it's a personal decision. If you have to justify to yourself that what you're doing is not copying, then you are copying and only lying to yourself about it. Justify anything is simply a nice form of lying because you know in your core that what you did was/is wrong and now needs a little frosting to clean it up and make your actions look pretty and ok. Kinda like saying, "I know I'm driving 5 mph over the speed limit but everyone else does it so it's not a big deal." Using an idea because you saw or heard of it from somewhere else is not copying. But blatently using that particular idea without adding anything of your own to it is. There's really nothing in the world that hasn't been thought of before. So I think it all comes down to how you implement those ideas and what your intentions are when creating them.

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.
(url="http://"http://www.0three0.net/l-1551/")L-1551(/url) - The official site of RONIN and The Way and the ten thousand things

Here is what you do. If you get permission to use someone else's graphics, or text, make sure to have a text file in your plugin or TC that states that. It would be a sort of bibliography.

If it is from the previous game, you don't need to research who used the name Kane Band. You would just list Ambrosia as your source (or however you write it) and if someone actually wanted to argue with what you wrote, they would have to go up the "food chain".

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Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."

Everything that you write and everything that you design or draw is copyright.

Here is a government guide to intellectual property in the UK, with links to non-UK sites. Most of this is by international agreement anyway.
(url="http://"http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/")http://www.intellect...roperty.gov.uk/(/url)

The earlier comment about 'not being for profit' is actually incorrect. Copyright applies in all instances.

You can't copyright an idea, nor can you copyright something which you did not yourself create (before we have a spate of posts claiming to copyright the colour orange). Equally, you cannot gain artistic copyright over something which does not have a high degree of creative input — for example, if you were to go through the Lord of the Rings and put it all in different words, you would not be able to claim copyright, and you would be in violation of existing copyrights.

Personally I take huge exception to anyone using my graphics etc without permission.

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R
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anyone thought why the hell lasers are always portraited like some kind of tube light? lazers go at the spped of light, so we cant actually see them moving

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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/infinid_maniac/principal.html")www.geocities.com/infinid_maniac/principal.html(/url)

Well, if you assume that the ships you are flying are flying at or near the speed of light (which is why you can get between planets so quickly in-system), lasers will appear to be moving only slightly faster than your ship is moving. We'd assume that if light follows the doppler effect, it would be larger in the area where the laser is heading, and shorter and more pointed away from the direction the laser is moving. That is why they are shaped so in Nova (and other space games, as well).

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Eat blazing electric death!
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Originally posted by Curufinwe_Fëanor:
**anyone thought why the hell lasers are always portraited like some kind of tube light? lazers go at the spped of light, so we cant actually see them moving

**

yes, but if you weren't able to see the beams, all of a sudden you'd have ships exploding for no apparent reason as lasers don't actually make any sound either. How interesting would that be? Not very. For this reason, tracers are used all the time in movies so that audiences can see the shots and it makes the action more interesting/suspenseful. Why is there sound in space movies when it isn't physically possible for sound to be generated of sufficient strength to be heard? Why are all ships right side up to one another? Why are all aliens humanoid? Why do all aliens speak the same language? Why are terrorists always portrayed using uzis? Why do bullets make such huge holes? Why do cars explode when they crash? How can the hero trade so many blows and shrug them off like they were water? Why do bullets always make sparks when they hit cars? Why do all phone numbers start with 555? Why do hyposprays affect people on Star Trek so quickly? Why do all space fighters fly like airplanes? How is it possible to have a lightsaber? Why doesn't Indiana Jones use his gun on all the enemies in the beginning of "Raiders of the Lost Arc?" Why is there a "Club Obiwan" in Raiders of the Lost Arc and a "Obiwan Kenobi" in Star Wars when Star Wars is supposed to take place "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away?" How can all ships in Star Trek travel faster than the speed of light when we know that it's impossible to accelerate to that speed? Why don't they have seatbelts in Star Trek? Why aren't there circuit breakers behind consoles in Star Trek to prevent them from blowing up so spectacularly in battle? How is to possible for people to change shape? Why does the Enterprise from the new show look like the Akira from First Contact? How is it possible for Voyager to enter a Borg Sphere and hide inside until they can escape from the warp conduit? What is the point of having a separating saucer section that can't enter warp? How is it possible for all sorts of sci-fi shows to not feel the affects of acceleration? I could go on and on! There are a bunch of questions that can only be answered by this one statement: IT LOOKS GOOD ON SCREEN. <===Whoo..... I'm sorry, had a not-so-happy day today, and you gave me an opening to which I could vent.

As for the whole inspiration/plagerism/copyright infringement issue, you can borrow ideas and elaborate on them and everything will be cool. It would be a courtesy to acknowledge where you got the original idea. You can borrow graphics or text, but you should ask for permission from the original author/artist first, and abide by their wishes if they don't want you to use their work. Always cite your source in this case.

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

Well, is the "idea" of a laser weapon barrowed from Nova?
or is it barrowed from EV?
or is it barrowed from Star Wars?
Or from Star Trek?
Or from Bell Labs?
Or from War of the Worlds?
Or from the ancient egyptians?
Or from Cain, after all he invented killing someone.

I think its rather pointless to try to give credit for something, you would have a million different pointless sources, or you would have one or two silly ones.

The only idea that would warrent credit are the super creative ways to use NCBs to do cool complex things. Thats an actual invention you actually copy and use, everything else is just inspiration.

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Cheat any way you want in almost any mac game. Even Nova.

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thedecline wrote: In Nova the Kane Band is taken from Arthur C. Clarkes "3001", and who knows where he got it from.

Well, thats the great thing with Plugs, and stories. You can draw inspiration, and even copy a name here and there. I could give thousands of subtle examples. Arrakis/Dune in EV, "Klaatu, Barada, Nikto" in Star Wars, Im to tired to think of more, but the point is that the sublte references- they pay homage to previous greats in the field.

It only turns to plagarism and copying, when you steal a plot or a unique idea and pass it off as your own. Ex: I make a plug that has a young Dije save the galaxy from his evil Hist father...

Well, you get the idea.

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Sephil is coming...

(This message has been edited by Cap'n_Hector (edited 05-02-2003).)

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Originally posted by Cap'n_Hector:
**
Well, thats the great thing with Plugs, and stories. You can draw inspiration, and even copy a name here and there. I could give htousands of subtle examples. Arrakis/Dune in EV, "Klaatu, Barada, Nikto" in Star Wars, Im to tired to think of more, but the point is that the sublte references- they pay homage to previous greats in the field.
**

Klaatu, of course, being a homage to the alien in "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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Klaatu, of course, being a homage to the alien in "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

Yup.

I was considering posting that, but i was curious to see if anyone knew.

Although, all three are a homage...but for bonus points- what was the name of the speaker of those words?

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Sephil is coming...

See, if something has sufficient influence on a nation or world's culture, it can be used - because we use it. eg:

Quote

Commander Fredericks closed his desk drawers and locked them. Standing up, he went over to the window and looked out on the spacedocks. Filled with hundreds of ships, he was due to inspect the U.S.S. Coral Sea in twenty minutes. He walked through to the tachyon teleport chamber and stepped into the shallow depression that marked the device.
"How's things, Commander?" Lt. Anardis asked, smiling as she looked up from the console.
"Doing fine, Susan," Fredericks replied. "Headed for the Coral Sea. Can you oblige?"
The attractive brunette pushed a few buttons. "All ready, Commander," she said.
"Beam me up, Scotty," the commander grinned, his body blurring away to nothing.
Susan's smile faded as the commander left. "When is he going to learn how CHEESY that is?" she asked herself.

See, everyone says "Beam me up, Scotty." I don't believe I'm plagiarizing it - admittedly because it's a minor part of the story, and it's well known where it's from.

Cheers,
Guapo

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"Quote it, paraphrase it, soak it in peanut oil and set it on fire. I don't mind in the least." - forge
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Quote

Originally posted by Cap'n_Hector:
**Yup.

I was considering posting that, but i was curious to see if anyone knew.

Although, all three are a homage...but for bonus points- what was the name of the speaker of those words?

**

Klaatu himself, saying it to Gort in order to get Gort to cease attacking.

Great movie.

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It is better to feed the goat than it is today.

Quote

Originally posted by ElGuapo7:
See, everyone says "Beam me up, Scotty." I don't believe I'm plagiarizing it - admittedly because it's a minor part of the story, and it's well known where it's from.

The quote "Beam me up, Scotty" is not plagerism for several reasons. First, it has been used so frequently that it has become a part of the (American) vernacular (sp?). Second, that quote was never actually used in the show anyway. I think the closest that they ever got was "Scotty, beam me up" (Star Trek IV).

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

Well, what happens if you all of a sudden have this wonderous idea you go make a plug that incorporates your idea. And then you recieve this E-Mail complaining about how you didn't give this other guy you haven't even heard of credit for his idea which he released in a plug a year ago that you haven't even seen. What then?

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The Evil Spoonman
Albatross!!!
"Life is to important to be taken seriously."
"If there was such thing as normal, even the plauge would avoid it." - The Evil Spoonman

Quote

Originally posted by Evil_Spoonman:
**Well, what happens if you all of a sudden have this wonderous idea you go make a plug that incorporates your idea. And then you recieve this E-Mail complaining about how you didn't give this other guy you haven't even heard of credit for his idea which he released in a plug a year ago that you haven't even seen. What then?

**

Happened to me! I released a plug called "CompWars", which was basically an EV plug with all references to "Confederation" pulled out and replaced with "Microsoft" or "Evil Empire", and "Rebellion" with "Holy Alliance of Mac Users". Had a grand total of ONE mission in it.

Anyway, spamguy (I think it was) emailed me, and told me about his plug called CompuWars (note the extra u) that he'd released.

Same idea, similar name, but he'd done it a year before.

So now the plug's one one of my drives...I think Micah L might still be hosting it, but I'm not sure.

Cheers,
Guapo

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"Quote it, paraphrase it, soak it in peanut oil and set it on fire. I don't mind in the least." - forge
Founding Member of WORRPBOITAMPSH
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I didn't think it was that far fetched. So what happens if said occurence takes place? The first to publish the idea?

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The Evil Spoonman
Albatross!!!
"Life is to important to be taken seriously."
"If there was such thing as normal, even the plauge would avoid it." - The Evil Spoonman

Quote

Originally posted by Evil_Spoonman:
**I didn't think it was that far fetched. So what happens if said occurence takes place? The first to publish the idea?

**

if you can prove that you came up with the idea completely independently from the other person, I think you're okay.

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."