Ambrosia Garden Archive
    • Getting the opinion of the Dev Corner (Poll)


      In our TC, we're trying to decide on a energy generation method. We have 2 options, and can't decide between the them. So we turn to you. The few. The proud. The EV-saavy. I am going to present my option. P-Psycho is going to reply and give his. Please vote on which you feel is best.

      Please try to keep down the extra comments, and please, please don't try to introduce extra options. We've narrowed it down to two options- adding more will only set us back. Thanks y'all.

      Background Info for our plug: The year is 2207 AD. Humanity has not expanded outside the solar system. However, space travel, while still incredibly expensive, is in the hands of private, common citizens, not just governments anymore. Most ships are run down, old hulks, held together (sometimes literally) with duct tape. Military ships are like modern military ships- spic and span, meticulously maintained. Most private ship captains have neither the money, nor the time, nor the inclination to do this- they make the same money in an ugly heap as they do in a bright, chromed, freshly painted heap. Ships are prone to breaking down- engines blow up, reactors fizzle, turn jets melt, whatever. All in the name of the game. Propulsion is dominated by a single engine type, Ion Turbines, the decendant of modern Ion Engines like on that space probe (What was it called? Mars Explorer or something).

      For more info, please go to (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url) and read the Background file. It's an 8 or so page story about our plug's setting.

      Now, for option 1: Fusion Reactors
      Powered by deuterium, fusion is old school technology by 2207. Most school children can explain the relevant equations, and a reactor can be built from off the shelf parts. All this is important because things tend to break down, and common people need to be able to fix them in space. In game engine terms, the reactor acts as a fuel scoop, and all the rest of the energy-using accessories act as negative fuel scoops. When everything is balanced, the reactor is meeting the energy needs of the ship. When you are using more power than you are producing, the reactor is actually just "running hotter"- it's running in an overloaded condition that uses more fuel, but is actually meeting the energy needs of the ship. When it is underloaded, the reactor is multi-fusioning it's fuel, producing less energy but saving on fuel, extending the operating life.

      Here's an older, longer description of how this works:

      Almost universally, ships derive their electrical power from micro-fusion reactors. These reactors use superconductive coils to contain the fusion process, which can be started either with a laser or inductively. A heat pump transfers the reactions energy to the electric generator, which works on the (can't remember name of process- but if you heat one side and cool the other, the difference generates electricity) principle. Another heat pump transfers the cold of space from collectors on the ship's cold, dark side. All modern reactors are multi-fusion capable- they can continue to re-fuse their fuel all the way up to iron- after which point the reaction requires an input of energy instead of producing energy. As each successive reaction produces less energy, the gross energy output of the reactor drops, but fuel efficiency is increased by many times. By controlling how many reactions take place before the spent fuel is transfered to the engines as reaction mass, the output of a reactor can be adjusted to supply much greater than usual power demands- but this can end up using fuel at a prodigious rate. A reactor that is under taxed will usually shunt power to superconductive capacitors or simple batteries, and go offline for periods of time, again increasing efficiency of the system. During this time, reaction mass can be procured from the solar wind-all ships with velocity shielding are equipped to do this-and stockpiled, as well as having fuel economy and range recomputed.

      If that makes sence to you, good for you. That's all I'll say about option 1. My personal take is that it is rather tough to make fit the game engine, but it is more proper for the setting than option 2, matter/antimatter reactors, which (IMHO) would be, at best, in they're infancy by 2207, and not easily available, or fixable, by non-experts.

      Now for the other side of the argument, brought to you by P-Psycho.

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      ~Charlie

    • My vote is already for fusion. I hate seeing matter/antimatter reacotrs, because, while the reaction produces a massive amount of energy, the fuel is impractical. Not only does it have to be kept ionized so it can be stored within magnetic fields, but it takes more power to produce antimatter than you recieve from the matter-antimatter reaction. Since it must be produced and cannot be harvested in space (except for random fluctions in matter at the quantum level, and those are not at a sufficient level to be worthwhile, or near a white hole, which is impractical due to range), it would not be possible to capture fuel from nature.

      I just realized you said to try to steer clear of long comments, so I'll stop now. I vote for fusion.

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    • I too put my initial vote down for the fusion reactor. However, this may change when P-Psycho posts his reasoning.

      I would say that in the time scale we are talking, fussion reactors will be really efficient and if the matter/anti-matter reactors are as you say in its early stages, they would be quite inneficient and relatively unstable.

      You could of course use them both and have the m/am reactor one that produces huge amounts of energy, but as a bomb type that could blow your ship up at any time after say 100 days... that would be quite cool, and as the game goes on, you could use the crΓΆn resource so that the m/am reactors become more stable. Good engine use points there πŸ˜›

      ewan

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    • I'm gonna vote fusion.

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    • I vote Fusion!!!

      Matter/Antimatter is rather explosive, I doubt a rundown ship would be able to contain an Antimatter reactor with and degree of stability (unless you wish to have ships randomly explode, which would be kinda funny, but impractical).

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    • Hmmmm, What would the russians do?

      I was going to say "Old and reliable" but from your description, it sounds more like "old and unreliable"

      But old fits. Fusion being old and fixed with off the shelf parts.

      Matter/Antimatter. It's new and it breaks down. Where do you get the "off the shelf" parts to fix it?

      You could go for a compromise. Instead of arguing for one drive system or another, go for the Governments get the M/A engines (still unreliable, but at least they can afford to pay for the breakdowns).

      The regular Jo(e) gets the junk heep based on the old fusion drive. Sure it breaks down all the time, but at least you can afford the repairs.

      It comes to a point of when can you afford to pay for the Expensive breakdowns vs. the cheap breakdowns.

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      Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."

    • Meh, I took too long to post. Anyways, you can't decide based upon one opinion. Here's my thinking:

      Antimatter is produced on nearly every inhabited planet. The power used to create the antimatter comes from the huge planetary-based fusion reactors. When you land, you purchase more antimatter (hence refuelling with the Nova engine). Now ships all have M/AM reactors as he main reactor, but you can purchase extra fusion reactors for your ship to replenish your supply of antimatter (the fusion reactors being used solely to power the production of antimatter). Which fits along with fuel scoops in Nova. Small ships, such as fighters, would still have small fusion reactors, but they would be inefficient, and you would have to purchase fusable materials every so often. And M/AM reactors wouldn't be stable. They would probably be set to randomly explode on a rather small probability, but the deadliness of the explosion would depend on the quality of your maintainence and the quality of the reactor. Also, the higher the maintainence, the lower the probability of a reactor explosion.

      So, in a sense, my idea is that we use both, but M/AM is the main reactor for most starships. I think it just fits much better with the Nova engine.

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    • I'm one of the developers. Did they ask my opinion? NOOOO..... πŸ˜‰

      I don't really see the point of M/AM reactors if they require fusion reactors anyway. If you need them either way you might as well power the ship from them and save some space and cash.

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    • Well, M/AM does have the benefits of providing much more energy. However, I still have to lean towards fusion. It just seems like it would fit the universe better.

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    • You guys work too hard. πŸ˜›

      I think I'll be completely unoriginal in all aspects of my vote and vote fusion 2003.

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    • I vote for fusion.
      I base this on the information that Deutrium and Tritrium (Hydrogen isotopes) are relatively common in this solar system. Mining for those isotopes is feasible in the near future. The reactors for fusion, though markedly different in design than "modern day" powerplants, are theoretically estimated to produce similar amounts of ß and gamma radiation. This can be stopped using relatively small amounts of heavy metals (lead). Also the energy costs for producing enough fuel to power a craft is relatively low. This makes it a good source of future energy.
      However, Anti-matter is much harder to come by. The amount of energy to produce enough anti-matter puts an energy cost of production roughly equal to the the amount that could be harnessed from a reacting it in an engine. As of now, no "natural" source of anti-matter has been found in this solar system. In addition, the reaction produces enormous amounts of radiation, which the crew must be shielded from. This generally would be in the form of massive amount of metal shielding around the core, drastically pushing up the weight and cost of a craft with such a power supply.
      I know the standard responses apply, but since you are basing this in the near future and are trying to be a accurate as possible (based on what I have seen you posting about), I figured a little reality would not be a bad thing to base my choice on.

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    • I'm going to vote fusion, but with the caveat that if you have large, large capital ships, you may want to go the M/AM route with them as well.

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    • I'll stick with Fusion. If repair is a major part of the TC, (instead of just landing and refueling, you have landing repairing and refueling) then I still wonder what the comparative cost to repair fusion vs. MAM Drive.

      Here's something for the MAM drive. Larry Niven had a near lightspead Buzzard Ramjet that produced a lot of radiation. The fix was to string the Pod way back away from the stardrive. Sort of O================)>>>>>>|

      You string the pod back from your mam-drive. It does it's job, and you are safe from radiation and from possible explosion.

      But then you don't get to have fancy ship designs in this case.

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      Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."

    • Well, until you get starship hulls from the Pierson's Puppeteers, anyway...

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    • How comercial is your universe? If it is very comercial, M/AM engines might be more profitable (more repairs, constant selling of fuel, etc.) and thus might be more common.

      So I would take a good look at your storyline and see if you want a few mega-conglomerate corporations that are trying to take a hold of the new (profitable) space market, or if it's strictly pioneering and colonization, looking for a practical means to fly. If the former, my vote is A/AM, if the latter, my vote is fusion πŸ™‚

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      Feel the Jive
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    • I'm for using both. Give the more advanced and larger ships M/AM reactors, and lesser ones fusion. If M/AM is in its infantcy in 2207, make it in its infantcy in 2207. Most people would use the old stuff, with the rich and famous using others...

      (edit)after accually reading most of those, I found it astounding how we are all experts on currently non-existant technology...(well, maybe non-practical technology...) I also thought you didn't say anything about Fission, which is similar to fusion(only the oppisite...) as an even more basic ability.(/edit)

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      (This message has been edited by Meaker VI (edited 03-26-2003).)