EVN Editor (NovaGod)

pipeline

Hey guys,

Here's an odd thing; Jason and I did an awful lot of the Nova stuff with the text exporters and a spreadsheet program.

Dave

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Co-creator of EV Nova | Nova webboard moderator
(url="http://"http://berserkir.ambrosia.net/~pipeline")ATMOS(/url) | (url="http://"http://pipeline.sourcecod.com")pipeline(/url) | forge | (url="http://"http://www.EVula.com")EVula(/url)

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**Hey guys,

Here's an odd thing; Jason and I did an awful lot of the Nova stuff with the text exporters and a spreadsheet program.

Dave

**

Yes, for an experienced plugin builder, that would probably be the most efficient, but it doesn't help you visualize what things will look like. The goal of EVONE is to make it easier for new plugin builders (by having a nice graphical interface), while still retaining the power that the experienced guys need. If all you need is power, text is a clear choice.

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

shado83

Okay, I've made myself a nice little ResourceFork class that will let me play with EVN resources now.

Where can I get good info about the RLE format? I understand that SpriteWorld has useful source code for rendering etc but I am more interested in the actual format for an RLE resource. Any tips?

I'm thinking about attacking a Spob/Syst/Nebu editor first, because it will let me experiment with RLE's gently (most are only 1 frame), but it will be a no-go without some way to get a decent, encapsulated RLE-rendering Cocoa class.

Cheers!

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Kane O'Donnell

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by shado83:
**
Where can I get good info about the RLE format? I understand that SpriteWorld has useful source code for rendering etc but I am more interested in the actual format for an RLE resource. Any tips?

I'm thinking about attacking a Spob/Syst/Nebu editor first, because it will let me experiment with RLE's gently (most are only 1 frame), but it will be a no-go without some way to get a decent, encapsulated RLE-rendering Cocoa class.
**

Note that those are arguably the three hardest editors to write, so you may want to start with one of the simpler ones. If you are set on starting with those or want the information anyway, email me privately (ariossw@mac.com). I can get you C struct and header information that should not be too hard to turn into a Cocoa class.

Jeffrey - Arios SoftWare

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

Kame

Have to say that EVONE looks great. But personally I can't justify the $10 fee by saying that it pays for webspace. Now, programing time, yes. Obviously that takes work and should be shown gratitude. But webspace isn't expensive and if you feel your paying too much then find a new server. I've happily paid for my own space for several years. ($7 bucks a month for 100mbs is easily doable.)

Back to the topic though. A native OS X editor would be very nice but I'd also like to see a "simple" testing program if it were possible. I have no idea what goes into creating a program from scratch so I don't know what's reasonable and what's not. But it'd be nice to be able to test missions, bits, descriptions, etc without have to play through the game each time. It seems I spend more time (even from a saved pilot) trying to get to the mission I want to test, then playing through it than I do actually creating the plugs.

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**Have to say that EVONE looks great. But personally I can't justify the $10 fee by saying that it pays for webspace. Now, programing time, yes. Obviously that takes work and should be shown gratitude. But webspace isn't expensive and if you feel your paying too much then find a new server. I've happily paid for my own space for several years. ($7 bucks a month for 100mbs is easily doable.)

**

If you'll notice I gave the website as a side reason, not the main one, which is the programming time. Also, with all due respect, it is the $7/month that is/will be the problem - I do not have any other source of income.

Quote

**Back to the topic though. A native OS X editor would be very nice but I'd also like to see a "simple" testing program if it were possible. I have no idea what goes into creating a program from scratch so I don't know what's reasonable and what's not. But it'd be nice to be able to test missions, bits, descriptions, etc without have to play through the game each time. It seems I spend more time (even from a saved pilot) trying to get to the mission I want to test, then playing through it than I do actually creating the plugs.

**

A "simple testing program" is an oxymoron - any such program would have to duplicate large portions of the Nova engine, an almost impossible task. Even if it was possible, you will still have to go through the plug in the game, to make sure there were no conflicts or bugs in the "tester" program.

Jeffrey

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

Kame

Oh I totally understand the main issue of putting the time in to do the programming. That's why I didn't leave it out.

And that's pretty much what I figured about doing a testing program. Still... it would be nice. Would it be possible to access the Nova files just in a way to test bits and situations. Not neccessarly recreate the game using graphics and dialogue and such, but just to see if things occur as they should. The ENV Mission Viewer kinda does this. Or is testing mission bits in this way still trying to reproduce the gaming engine? Like I said, i have no idea what creating a program entails so it's very possible that it'd be way more work than reasonable - even without remaking EVN

(edit) or even rather a way just to keep track of control bits would be helpful: which ones do what; which ones are active; which ones are pending, etc. (/edit)
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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.

(This message has been edited by Kame (edited 12-04-2002).)

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**And that's pretty much what I figured about doing a testing program. Still... it would be nice. Would it be possible to access the Nova files just in a way to test bits and situations. Not neccessarly recreate the game using graphics and dialogue and such, but just to see if things occur as they should. The ENV Mission Viewer kinda does this. Or is testing mission bits in this way still trying to reproduce the gaming engine? Like I said, i have no idea what creating a program entails so it's very possible that it'd be way more work than reasonable - even without remaking EVN:p

(edit) or even rather a way just to keep track of control bits would be helpful: which ones do what; which ones are active; which ones are pending, etc. (/edit)**

It of course all depends on how far you want to go: It might be reasonably possible to have program that runs through missions setting and clearing control bits as ordered and following the commands, but then again, it probably wouldn't catch all the possibilities that the user could do. A program such as that would most likely be unable to catch conflicts between different plugs or within a plug (i.e. a mission being available at a system that was just replaced with one of another id by another mission). Bascically, the more useful a program is, the closer it is to Nova, until in the end you wind up with Nova itself. One final thought: It appears the main advantage of a program like this would be to be able to test the plug without all of the annoying time delays, but in some cases the time delays may be necesary to allow the player to accomplish other missions, complete story lines etc.. If you want to try to duplicate all of the complex interactions, you would again then end up with Nova.

I agree you have a good idea, its just that its implementation would be extremely difficult.

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

wtimmins

Personally, considering that designing a (good) plug-in is also a time and labor-intensive task that nobody is allowed to get paid for, color me unconvinced at the prospect of paying for an editor.

(Who am I? Nobody important. Move along...)

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When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I
know it is wrong.
- Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983)

HeWhoMustNotBeNamed

shado: Make it an all in one editor. Just my two cents.

And while EVONE looks like it will not only be very cool and powerful, a good free editor is still needed for our younger and poorer fellow EV fans to play with.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
Russell for President 2020!

Mantaray

Quote

Originally posted by Russell Quintero:
**shado: Make it an all in one editor. Just my two cents.

And while EVONE looks like it will not only be very cool and powerful, a good free editor is still needed for our younger and poorer fellow EV fans to play with.

**

Hrm, MissionComputer is free, but requires (IMHO) some background with plugin making.

Maybe when I finish Caribbean I'll write a tutorial/guide for newbies.

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While preparing dinner, Edna accidentally opens a can of whoopass.

mrxak

Many more everything-editors are always nice, but how about some more specialized programs? Little apps that do specific tasks like Nova Paint, EnRLE, or Target Generator do. It's really those small ones that boost productivity the most, when there's already plenty of other programs that do "everything else".

I say create more programs like those, and you have yourself a winner. We can only have so many everything-editors before we start accomplishing nothing.

My four cents, cause I've got money to burn...

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
**I say create more programs like those, and you have yourself a winner. We can only have so many everything-editors before we start accomplishing nothing.

**

Oh, I agree, but when I started there was not a Nova plugin editor at all for OS X, so I started EVONE.

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

ProtoformX

Quote

Originally posted by Mantaray:
**Hrm, MissionComputer is free, but requires (IMHO) some background with plugin making.

Maybe when I finish Caribbean I'll write a tutorial/guide for newbies.

**

Off Topic, but are going to be encouraging people to come up with add-on plugs for Caribbean? If so, a guide for the basics of what/how you are manipulating the Nova engine would be a great help. Like adding an island to Caribbean could be imensely more difficult than adding a planet to Nova. Something newbie plug-makers may stumble over.

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"Life is no life to him that dares not die,
And death no death to him that dares not live."
-- Sir Henry Newbolt.

(This message has been edited by ProtoformX (edited 12-05-2002).)

mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by AriosSw:
**Oh, I agree, but when I started there was not a Nova plugin editor at all for OS X, so I started EVONE.

**

I not saying you're doing anything wrong with making an everything-editor, and it looks great, I'm just saying that other people should consider not making another everything-editor once that category is filled up with several options. More encouragement needs to be made for people making little programs that help developers with the smaller tasks, like a pilot-file ncb-editor to make it easier to test certain parts of a plug, a program that reads every resource and makes a list of every ncb requirement and which ones get set by what, or a program that reads a list of several files of RLEs and combines them into one and assigns each a new ID number starting with one you specify.

Mantaray

Quote

Originally posted by ProtoformX:
**Off Topic, but are going to be encouraging people to come up with add-on plugs for Caribbean? If so, a guide for the basics of what/how you are manipulating the Nova engine would be a great help. Like adding an island to Caribbean could be imensely more difficult than adding a planet to Nova. Something newbie plug-makers may stumble over.

**

Well, I was thinking addon plugins made by others to fit in Caribbean would be very cool, I figure that Caribbean will be big enough (100 years long storyline) for people to be content with it. Besides, you'd need Bryce 5, Photoshop, some animator program thingy, and EVONE (because positioning two near-identicle islands over eachother is difficult in NovaTools). But I also decided to add a developer guide to all my TCs so any body willing to do so could do it. So yeah, probably.

Back on topic-
I was thinking about nova editing, and thought it would be cool to have a sort of crön timeline... You have a timeline, starting at the year offset in the char resources; and then you can click where you want a crön to start, and then click on it to edit it... a long duration crön would be a long rectangle, and 0 duration cröns would be squares. That would speed things up pretty fast, if you ask me.

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While preparing dinner, Edna accidentally opens a can of whoopass.

HeWhoMustNotBeNamed

Quote

Originally posted by Mantaray:
**Hrm, MissionComputer is free, but requires (IMHO) some background with plugin making.

Maybe when I finish Caribbean I'll write a tutorial/guide for newbies.

**

Well I rather like the feel of MissionComputer, although I wouldn't mind some ship, outfit, syst, spob, and weap editors in it...wink, wink, nudge, nudge

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
Russell for President 2020!

David Arthur

Quote

Originally posted by Russell Quintero:
Well I rather like the feel of MissionComputer, although I wouldn't mind some ship, outfit, syst, spob, and weap editors in it...wink, wink, nudge, nudge

Have patience. At the moment I'm more worried about Novatising the editors I've already got.

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David Arthur @ (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url)
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/showpic.php?image=beta/mc2progress.gif&width;=480&height;=282&title;=MissionComputer+2.0+Progress+Update")MissionComputer 2.0 Progress Update(/url), 2 December 2002

Bohemian Muskrat

Well, perhaps one could have a simple version of Nova designed just for testing ship ballances. One could simply drag and drop ships from your ship editor into a "test" folder and those ships will appear in the system and fight it out with you floating arround as an observer.
It's probably infeasable.

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-Bohemian Muskrat

AriosSw

Quote

Originally posted by Bohemian Muskrat:
**Well, perhaps one could have a simple version of Nova designed just for testing ship ballances. One could simply drag and drop ships from your ship editor into a "test" folder and those ships will appear in the system and fight it out with you floating arround as an observer.
It's probably infeasable.

**

An extremely good idea, but yes, unless Ambrosia does it, probably infeasible.

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(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)

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