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      Good Heavens, I hope this isn't a double topic startup.

      Anyway, I would like to know the standard "official" camera angle, field of view and global lighting settings ATMOS used for their ships. I can sort of eyeball it, but I'd like to have it perfect.

      Other than this, I was also wondering whether ATMOS could make its models available to developers. See, it's rather difficult to make plugins which mesh perfectly with the Nova scenario when you have to try and duplicate every 3D object you want to incorporate in your plugin. For instance, if you'd like to have an IDA Frigate docking at your spaceport, or a standard Light Blaster incorporated into your ship. At the moment, you'd have to model those things exactly yourself, which sort of hampers the efforts of people who are attempting to make add-ons.

      I realize that ATMOS put a lot of work into its ships, and that previous EV developers have always had to model their own versions of everything. It was easier then, though, when all you needed was Mechanisto and twenty minutes to get the textures right. There are rather complex shapes and bitmap textures on all of EVN's ships and outfits, and they are rather difficult to re-create.

      I would also like to make my own variant of the Starbridge...

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      (url="http://"http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MNT6/nanohook.mov")This(/url) is the most frightening video I have ever seen.

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Angel:
      I was also wondering whether ATMOS could make its models available to developers. See, it's rather difficult to make plugins which mesh perfectly with the Nova scenario when you have to try and duplicate every 3D object you want to incorporate in your plugin. For instance, if you'd like to have an IDA Frigate docking at your spaceport, or a standard Light Blaster incorporated into your ship. At the moment, you'd have to model those things exactly yourself, which sort of hampers the efforts of people who are attempting to make add-ons.

      It won't happen. They've said this multiple times I believe.

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Angel:
      it's rather difficult to make plugins which mesh perfectly with the Nova scenario when you have to try and duplicate every 3D object you want to incorporate in your plugin.

      (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum56/HTML/000990.html")It's possible...(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Angel:
      **Good Heavens, I hope this isn't a double topic startup.

      Anyway, I would like to know the standard "official" camera angle, field of view and global lighting settings ATMOS used for their ships. I can sort of eyeball it, but I'd like to have it perfect.

      Other than this, I was also wondering whether ATMOS could make its models available to developers. See, it's rather difficult to make plugins which mesh perfectly with the Nova scenario when you have to try and duplicate every 3D object you want to incorporate in your plugin. For instance, if you'd like to have an IDA Frigate docking at your spaceport, or a standard Light Blaster incorporated into your ship. At the moment, you'd have to model those things exactly yourself, which sort of hampers the efforts of people who are attempting to make add-ons.

      I realize that ATMOS put a lot of work into its ships, and that previous EV developers have always had to model their own versions of everything. It was easier then, though, when all you needed was Mechanisto and twenty minutes to get the textures right. There are rather complex shapes and bitmap textures on all of EVN's ships and outfits, and they are rather difficult to re-create.

      I would also like to make my own variant of the Starbridge...

      **

      I emailed pipeline a little while back, about asking if he was going to release the lighting and camera angles etc. As far as I know he might be planning to release them publically, (i think), but not the moddels though.

      l e g i o n

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      The heart goes streight from sugar to coffee.

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      Ok. I've answered this question several times now.

      ATMOS situated their camera behind the ship, and elevated 45 degrees. Their light is in front of the ship deflected to the left 45 degrees, and elevated probably 30 degrees.

      I've heard a lot of people say the camera was elevated 45 degrees, and after making some sprites of my own, it appears to be true. I used the Fed Cruiser as a reference for the light. Rotate it 90 degrees to the right, and see what angle the shadow is cast. Since it's a long shadow (longer than the cruiser's raised bit), I figure that the light was only elevated 30 degrees (since 30 is a pretty standard/widely used angle).

      Matrix

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      "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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      I wish they did release models for EVN, and I guess it wouldn't hurt to do that for EVC as well. So far I've got most of the models for EVO which I used to make the UE Battleships and the Emalgha Battlewagons.

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      Nosumus Fortiolis Quad Volimus

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Coraxus:
      **I wish they did release models for EVN, and I guess it wouldn't hurt to do that for EVC as well.

      **

      Giving away the product of months/years of work always sounds like a great idea to the people who want the results for free.
      .
      mcb

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      "If it's not on fire, it's a software problem."

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      Originally posted by mburch:
      **
      Giving away the product of months/years of work always sounds like a great idea to the people who want the results for free.
      .
      mcb

      **

      Fair enough. It's just so difficult to re-create the Starbridge... I'll keep trying, though.

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      (url="http://"http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MNT6/nanohook.mov")This(/url) is the most frightening video I have ever seen.

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      Originally posted by Angel:
      **Fair enough. It's just so difficult to re-create the Starbridge... I'll keep trying, though.

      **

      But not impossible, look again at the link EVula posted. A good artist can make Nova-quality graphics if they work at it. Don't give up, and don't expect handouts.

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Angel:
      **Fair enough. It's just so difficult to re-create the Starbridge... I'll keep trying, though.

      **

      I know its not ideal, but why nbot try cutting and pasting images of the ships from existing landing pics? - worth a try....

      oh, what_is_the_matrix, do you also know what the banking angles are? 🙂 thanks.

      l e g i o n

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      The heart goes streight from sugar to coffee.

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      Originally posted by Legion:
      **oh, what_is_the_matrix, do you also know what the banking angles are?:)
      **

      You're kidding, right? Banking angles are whatever you want them to be. Depends on how fast your ship is.

      Also, can I get an official answer for the angles? I believe that there are two lights, but I could be wrong.

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      (url="http://"http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MNT6/nanohook.mov")This(/url) is the most frightening video I have ever seen.

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      I don't know about the banking angles, but it's probably around 10 degrees in either direction. As for two lights, it's entirely possible. If they did, they probably used a bright spotlight at the 45° as a "key" light (a light that gives the illumination on the subject), and possibly a very dim light (10% is standard) to reduce the shadows, and give a bit of illumination to details that could possibly get hidden.

      I agree with Matt. I hate giving away my stuff to just anyone. Besides, if you have good observational skills, you can very easily emulate the style of EV/EVO. Not only that, but the ships in EV/EVO are decidedly less complicated than the ones in Nova. I made a "UE Dreadnaught" for someone making an EVO plug, and was able to make it look as if it was originally part of the game. You just have to figure out the details like how they textured the ship, how they lit the ship, and various other stylistic details. Also, try to figure out how many bits the ship was rendered at, or at least emulate it. For instance, the EVO graphics have a sort of grainy texture to them. When I rendered the Dreadnaught at 8 bits, it was way too smooth, so I re-rendered it at 5 bits, and it had a very similar grainy texture.

      Now, I don't claim to be the best at making graphics, but I think that the gross shape of the starbridge is relatively simple. Only the aft engine section, and the textures are complicated. Just keep working and tinkering and reworking, and you'll find yourself with a starbridge in no time.

      Or what you could do quickly (this is pretty stupid, but I think it'd work), is make the graphics for whatever weapons and stuff that you wanted to add in a blank file, animate them according to the starbridge's rotation and banking, and use photoshop to simply put them on top of ATMOS' sprite. It would save you the time and trouble of recreating the whole ship.

      Matrix

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      "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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      Quote

      Originally posted by mburch:
      **
      Giving away the product of months/years of work always sounds like a great idea to the people who want the results for free.
      .
      mcb

      **

      But seeing people increasing the shelf life and building a community around something you have created should sound great to the original developers. Nothing should be better than the feeling that you have inspired someone, that you are making someone happy. Be proud of what you have accomplished Matt -and a bit less cynical 🙂

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      Wham!Man - The original and still the best
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      (This message has been edited by Wham!Man (edited 06-02-2002).)

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      Originally posted by Wham!Man:
      But seeing people increasing the shelf life and building a community around something you have created should sound great to the original developers.

      I'm guessing that you've never hand-crafted something over the course of many years, otherwise you probably wouldn't be saying that. Imagine this: you've spent the past two years working on a set of ships. They look wonderful, and everyone wants to emulate the ships so they can make ships similar to it. You release the models, then there are hundreds of bastardized versions of ships. Not only that, but why should other people get handouts, when the original person did all the work? If everyone just relied on handouts, there would be no one to actually do the work the first time; we'd be stuck with EV 1.0.0 styled ships.

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      Oh, and another example that shows that it is possible to emulate the Nova ships without the original models (he's not even using the same program): (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum56/HTML/001051.html#")http://www.AmbrosiaS...ML/001051.html#(/url)

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      (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula,(/url) your friendly (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")self-promoting(/url) EV & EVO Boards/Addon/Newswire/Chronicles moderator
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      Quote

      Originally posted by what_is_the_matrix:
      **I don't know about the banking angles, but it's probably around 10 degrees in either direction. As for two lights, it's entirely possible. If they did, they probably used a bright spotlight at the 45° as a "key" light (a light that gives the illumination on the subject), and possibly a very dim light (50%, I think, is standard) to reduce the shadows, and give a bit of illumination to details that could possibly get hidden.

      I agree with Matt. I hate giving away my stuff to just anyone. Besides, if you have good observational skills, you can very easily emulate the style of EV/EVO. Not only that, but the ships in EV/EVO are decidedly less complicated than the ones in Nova. I made a "UE Dreadnaught" for someone making an EVO plug, and was able to make it look as if it was originally part of the game. You just have to figure out the details like how they textured the ship, how they lit the ship, and various other stylistic details. Also, try to figure out how many bits the ship was rendered at, or at least emulate it. For instance, the EVO graphics have a sort of grainy texture to them. When I rendered the Dreadnaught at 8 bits, it was way too smooth, so I re-rendered it at 5 bits, and it had a very similar grainy texture.

      Now, I don't claim to be the best at making graphics, but I think that the gross shape of the starbridge is relatively simple. Only the aft engine section, and the textures are complicated. Just keep working and tinkering and reworking, and you'll find yourself with a starbridge in no time.

      Or what you could do quickly (this is pretty stupid, but I think it'd work), is make the graphics for whatever weapons and stuff that you wanted to add in a blank file, animate them according to the starbridge's rotation and banking, and use photoshop to simply put them on top of ATMOS' sprite. It would save you the time and trouble of recreating the whole ship.

      Matrix

      **

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      "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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