In the past months/weeks/years I have seen thousands of posts inquiring about the expansion of the C source code of EV to add extra features.
I have seen some of the most talented artists,programmers and designers on the mac gaming scene either give-up or slander their incredible ideas due to the restricitions of the EV engine. Why, I ask myself, do these artists,programmers and designers get together and make their own game ? I've seen what these people can do and, to be perfectly honest with you, quite a bit of it (graphix wise for instance) surpasses ANYTHING which the Ambrosia team have attempted/completed to date.
No offence to Mburch and Co., you are a truly gifted bunch of programmers and EV/AVARA/Ferendal have set new standards in mac game dev., I'm only curious.

Some Quotes to back my argument :
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I am trying to create a plugin with an outf that allows changes to what I assume are system settings. The idea is this: A new kind of escape pod that will "fold" space, allowing the player to go to a system set on the galaxy map reguardless of the distance. This is not intended to be a power tool, as there are restrictions that will certainly apply, but in order to do this, I need to know how to do a few things.
1 - Intercept the "eject" key, in order to enter my code space.
2 - Pop-up the galactic map, and when it is dismissed, find out the system it is pointing to. (Maybe even tweak the code here so that you just click on the system to dismiss the pop-up.)
3 - Set the location of the player. The Bible does not include player ("OPIL"?) recource information.

Any help on accessing the code in EVO would be appreciated, especially the animation routines. What good is a nifty outf if it doesn't look good, too?

Thanks,
^
|->The Ticktockman
------------
an enterprising C programmer if ever I saw one
--------------- (url="http://"http://evnfullstop.tripod.com/Html/Ships.htm")http://evnfullstop.t.../Html/Ships.htm(/url)
Some excellent graphix work which is wasted on EVN
--------------- (url="http://"http://www.grand-novice.com")www.grand-novice.com(/url)
Spending so much time on an EV plug-in....Why ?

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Wham!Man - The original and still the best
I took a course in speed reading recently and read War and peace in 15 minutes. It involves Russia - Woody Allen

So stop TELLING us about how good it will be, and go DO it!
GO! NOW!

- Anatole

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--The newbie hater--
Blood, waves, triumph. Blood, anger, lust, greed, blood. The First Antigan was born of such sin, into such sin. He saw sin, saw life, saw hope. He was Imbued with the power, the idea, the strength he would need to lead his people to absolute rule. Resurrected power, long forgotten on the torn and shattered Earth. Almighty lord, Nasher Degy, awoke, and prepared his elite power for use on his hated opponents. Almighty First, just like that. - Antigan Codex, Book of Antigan. 1:1

You are missing the point completely..facist

This is for people with talent

Werd out

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Wham!Man - The original and still the best
I took a course in speed reading recently and read War and peace in 15 minutes. It involves Russia - Woody Allen

(This message has been edited by Wham!Man (edited 10-10-2001).)

I couldn't do Discovery because of EVO's insufficiant engine. Still, probably never would have done it anyway.
~Gav

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Without evil there cannot
be good so it must be
good to be evil sometime.
---

It is highly unlikely that you will ever be able to obtain the source code for any Escape Velocity game without breaching numerous parts of substantive law. Therefore, you have two choices. The first is to check out the capabilities of the engine used in EV Nova by reading the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/news/upcoming/novabible.html")EV Nova Bible(/url). The second, which a few people have unsuccessfully tried, is to write your own game from scratch without using any intellectual property of Matt Burch, Ambrosia Software, Peter Cartwright, or ATMOS.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Wham!Man:
**In the past months/weeks/years I have seen thousands of posts inquiring about the expansion of the C source code of EV to add extra features.
I have seen some of the most talented artists,programmers and designers on the mac gaming scene either give-up or slander their incredible ideas due to the restricitions of the EV engine. Why, I ask myself, do these artists,programmers and designers get together and make their own game ? I've seen what these people can do and, to be perfectly honest with you, quite a bit of it (graphix wise for instance) surpasses ANYTHING which the Ambrosia team have attempted/completed to date.

**

It has been my experience that projects started by a group with a great deal of enthusiasm usually sputter out. Imagine a simple graph in which the Y axis is enthusiasm and X is time. Most successful projects end up creating a line that looks like a smile. Or think of it as two S-curves.

At the beginning is "Uninformed optimism". As the project progresses and the group members learn more and more about what is actually involved in getting the job done, enthusiasm drops into "informed skeptism". As work continues (if work continues) the group starts to solve the problems facing it and enthusiams increases. In the end of the project is "informed enthusiasm" or, if it was a particularly hard project (EVN comes to mind) then it might be thought of as "Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty! Free at last!"

Different people deal differently with these stages. Example: I suggested to some writing friends of mine that we compile the essays and whatnot we'd written over five years into a compilation. We started talking about the details, and immediately some bowed out. Others stayed with it, but eventually gave up when reviewing the mountain of material (we're talking hundreds of pages of text and images) to see what should go in. In the end there were three of us that did the job. I don't think it any surprise that the three of us were the three most capable in the group: we wrote, created our own graphics, and knew the layout software inside out. We had informed enthusiasm.

I guess that's just a long way of saying lots of projects fail because people lose the fire in their bellies, get overwhelmed, or just don't have enough know-how.

All that being said, I think a version of EV that could load external code would be cool, but could be crippling in the same that freedom can be (just ask someone from Eastern Germany what it was like to walk into a Western Germany grocery store for the first time). A fixed engine means you can poke and prod and find what the limits are. You can also learn all the bugs that you can exploit for interesting effects.

<tangent>To be honest, I was a little frustrated when work on EVN was announced. It sounds like an amazing engine that will answer the myrid requests made by plugin developers over the years, but I was still frustrated. Why? Because I'd just gotten a handle on the EVO engine. I'd poked and prodded it since EVO first came out. A little research will show that I've never released a plugin; that's because I've had a large complex idea I've been playing with for a few years and needed to experiment with EVO to see just how far I could push it. All the pilot file crappola I've been doing for the past year was related to this goal, and now, once EVN is released, it will mean starting from scratch.</tangent>

A hypothetical game that would allow for modular code would mean no fixed boundaries. If one didn't like an aspect of how the game behaved, it would be possible to just change the game instead of "working inside the box". Heh.

Wow. This is probably the most conservative thing I've written in years. I'm gonna stop.

-STH

(This message has been edited by seant (edited 10-10-2001).)

Heh, I tried to start an EV engine once It was going to be in real time 3D (which is easier than you think), but I stopped due to exams, assignments and gaps in my knowlage. Oh, and I didnt know C at the time =P

Anyway, the best games come with a custom engine, which takes lots of time and money. Good luck to those who try.

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--sitharus
(url="http://"http://www.damnsw.net/~triplet/forums/")Carracho Help - Updated, upgraded and better!(/url)
(url="http://"mailto:sitharus@ureach.com")mailto:sitharus@ureach.com(/url)sitharus@ureach.com

Quote

Originally posted by Wham!Man:
This is for people with talent:D

Talent is a rare commodity; the motivation to use it even rarer.

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"She said, 'Honey, you know I gave up cigarrettes for my new-year's resolution... but I didn't give up SMOKIN'!"
-- The Blues Brothers, "I Don't Know"
Bounty Plus, Final Battle and the Annotated Bibles
idisk: andyg

(This message has been edited by WickedDyno (edited 10-11-2001).)

A 3D Ev Engine ? Exo-battle comes to mind (sorry matt)

Yes, I am talking about creating a game similar to EV (on the basis of open architecture for "plug-in" developers.

Anywayz

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--------------------------
Wham!Man - The original and still the best
-------------------------------
"The past is history, the futures a mystery. Today is a gift, that's

Quote

In the past months/weeks/years I have seen thousands of posts inquiring about the expansion of the C source code of EV to add extra features.
I have seen some of the most talented artists,programmers and designers on the mac gaming scene either give-up or slander their incredible ideas due to the restricitions of the EV engine. Why, I ask myself, do these artists,programmers and designers get together and make their own game ? I've seen what these people can do and, to be perfectly honest with you, quite a bit of it (graphix wise for instance) surpasses ANYTHING which the Ambrosia team have attempted/completed to date.
No offence to Mburch and Co., you are a truly gifted bunch of programmers and EV/AVARA/Ferendal have set new standards in mac game dev., I'm only curious.

Making a game from scrach or even the source code of EV (Which has been said to be impossible) would be much more work than doing a plug-in, how many people would be willing to code it ?
Apart from that they have given us a program that could be edited by any idiot with res-edit.....I doubt anyone could make a game that vesitile.

Quote

--------------- http://evnfullstop.t.../Html/Ships.htm
Some excellent graphix work which is wasted on EVN

I hope not

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I'm not dead

Actually, the major factor in most failed projects, and you all will agree, is time. Most people still have the ideas for games, but do not have enough time to finish it, as said above SATs etc. time is even more rare a comodity than talent. I have plenty of talent, just almost no time... wrestling lacrosse work etc. Then I have no time left to sit around and code.

You also need a flexible programming language, basic and c won't cut it.

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Prepare to be disabled and boarded!

Quote

Originally posted by Wham!Man:
A 3D Ev Engine ? Exo-battle comes to mind (sorry matt)

heh, I was planning on a thing more like Total Annihilation (3D models rendered to a 2D game) than a fully 3D one...

But anyway, maybe someone else with more time and motivation would like to try

------------------
--sitharus
(url="http://"http://www.damnsw.net/~triplet/forums/")Carracho Help - Updated, upgraded and better!(/url)
(url="http://"mailto:sitharus@ureach.com")mailto:sitharus@ureach.com(/url)sitharus@ureach.com

Quote

Originally posted by SpacePirate:
You also need a flexible programming language, basic and c won't cut it.

What's inflexible about C? Most games are written in C or C++. EV was written in C.

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"She said, 'Honey, you know I gave up cigarrettes for my new-year's resolution... but I didn't give up SMOKIN'!"
-- The Blues Brothers, "I Don't Know"
Bounty Plus, Final Battle and the Annotated Bibles
idisk: andyg