Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**Yep. Matt's engine exceeded the capabilities of ResEdit TMPLs, and I was asked to help build editors for the Nova team during alpha development. I decided to use ResEdit as a shell to run custom editors inside, to save time.
...
If there is demand and I have time, I may make ResEditors for EV/O, but I am starting other projects.

DrR**

How did the engine exceed the capabilities of ResEdit TMPL's? If Nova's engine exceeded ResEdit's capabilities, how can you use it as a shell!?! Man, I wish I knew something about programming!

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--Alexis

That's the point of making Nova Edit- the engine exceded what ResEdit could do. Thus, new adaptions had to be made. ResEdit can only do so much on its own, Dr. Ralph here is helping it along, while spifing it up to be more user friendly. It's kinda like making a vw bug into (I use this beacuse the originals were air tight) a boat. Although originally for use on the road, with a little modifications it can also do as a boat in water. Same with ResEdit.

(that was probably the worst analogy, but I hope it helps.)

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(-) 1024

Quote

Originally posted by Phoenix155:
**How did the engine exceed the capabilities of ResEdit TMPL's? If Nova's engine exceeded ResEdit's capabilities, how can you use it as a shell!?!
**

It's definitely possible to edit Nova resources using only ResEdit and the Nova TMPLs, but it's very tedious. DrRalph's editors make it much more intuitive and convenient for those people out there who didn't happen to write the engine code.

mcb

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"If it's not on fire, it's a software problem."

You may wish to review a couple of the links in my sig. Matt already linked to one. But take a look at the screen shots one to see why w00tRalphTools are a lot better than TMPLS.

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Tom
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In a way, the R&R; tools are kind of necesary. Nova is more complex than its' predecessors, and without some good tools, it would be hard to make decent plug-ins using ResEdit and third party tools alone. Without the R&R; tools, many of the amateur plug makers, like myself, would never really be able to make anything worth playing.

We also have some assurance of quality with the R&R; tools. Ev-Edit was buggy, and I could never use it for anything except peaking at other plug-ins. ResEdit is not an EV tool at all, so it's easy to make mistakes while messing with the various resources.

And I'm back, that's good I guess.

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Every smilie I see drives me closer to the edge

Quote

Originally posted by Nicholas Shanks:
**Are the Tools testers the same people who are testing Nova, or a different bunch?

**

There is large overlap.

Also Nicholas, When everything is settled down a bit, I would like to see what is involved in getting the NovaTools to work inside ResKnife. How much of the ResEdit API is supported?

Cheers
DrRalph

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NovaTools are coming.

Quote

Posted by DrRalph:
NovaTools are coming.

But not fast enough

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Dr. Tall says: Taller is Better

Quote

Originally posted by Phoenix155:
**How did the engine exceed the capabilities of ResEdit TMPL's? If Nova's engine exceeded ResEdit's capabilities, how can you use it as a shell!?! Man, I wish I knew something about programming!

**

The resource structures used by Nova don't completely exceed the TMPL mechanism. Most of the resources are predetermined sizes for a start, and are not heirachically structured. However, editing 3D info like the weapon exit points was extremely difficult without an animated previewer with interactive readouts. And you know how many flags there are in Nova! Checkboxes for flags is almost the best feature!

I was also able to add things like a customisable speling checker to the desc editor for fun.

Finally, ResEdit was designed to take 'plugins' almost from the beginning - it just wasn't widely appreciated until almost too late! So with Novatools you can view new graphical formats for example which didn't exist when ResEdit 2.1.3 was last in development.

Cheers
DrRalph

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NovaTools are coming.

(quote)Originally posted by Dr Tall:
**But not fast enough;)

Cheers
DrRalph

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NovaTools are coming.
**

Quote

Originally posted by mburch:
**It's definitely possible to edit Nova resources using only ResEdit and the Nova TMPLs, but it's very tedious. DrRalph's editors make it much more intuitive and convenient for those people out there who didn't happen to write the engine code.;)

mcb
**

Ok, I thought you meant ResEdit couldn't handle it! But that's cool I understand now, thanks Matt (and everyone else)!

--Alexis

Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**Also Nicholas, When everything is settled down a bit, I would like to see what is involved in getting the NovaTools to work inside ResKnife. How much of the ResEdit API is supported?
**

I spoke to Nick on the phone. He is excited about this idea, and is spending his time at the moment try to bring the Cocoa version up to speed with the other versions. ResKnife is loooking pretty good (hint, Nick: Especially if you implement my suggestions. )

NovaTools for ResKnife would be brill, as it would be native Nova editing for OS X.

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Tom
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Forgive me, but what is Res Knife?

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Dr. Tall says: Taller is Better

WOW!!!! I've been ignoring this topic for quite a while, but NovaTools is AMAZING!!!! I kind of play around with the shtuff in EV/O (changing the Mass and Cargo expansion so they don't take anything away), but it was kinda tough because there were some things I just didn't screw with. And sometimes, if I just looked through one fo the original files, ResEdit would bring up shtuff like the mďsn resource as hex code. PLUS, there were always fields I couldn't access (esp. for stuff like the shďp and wëap resources). I never messed around with the graphics, because I don't have a good graphics program, and I really don't know how to do that kind of stuff, but it was always fun to modify things like the outfits and the weapons. Now it's going to be easier, and therefore much more fun! One question, is this going to be OS X Native???

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"Only In America/Where We Dream In Red White & Blue/Only In America/Dream As Big As You Want To/Only In America/"
-- Brooks & Dunn, "Only In America"

Quote

Originally posted by Dr Tall:
**Forgive me, but what is Res Knife?

**

Res-Knife is essentially OS X's Res-Edit, I believe.

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
**One question, is this going to be OS X Native???

**

If you read the previous posts in this topic, you might be able to figure this out.

Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**...I was also able to add things like a customisable speling checker to the desc editor for fun...

**

-Campbell

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YakKa Foob MoG. GRuG
PubbuWuP ZiNk WattooM
GaZoRK. CHuMBLE SpuZz.
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(This message has been edited by Lord Gwydion (edited 08-12-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**There is large overlap.

Also Nicholas, When everything is settled down a bit, I would like to see what is involved in getting the NovaTools to work inside ResKnife. How much of the ResEdit API is supported?

Cheers
DrRalph
**

I would find it kind of weird if the Tools testers didn't have nuch of a clue about Nova!

Regarding the API, I answered on the Dev. Corner board.

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Nicholas Shanks
Author of HexEdit and ResKnife:
Available at (url="http://"http://nickshanks.com/mac/")nickshanks.com(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Dr Tall:
**Forgive me, but what is Res Knife?

**

Follow the link in Nick Shanks's sig. It is a work in progress.

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
**is this going to be OS X Native???
**

No, they are Resedit plugs, and hence will run in Classic mode. As you can see there is the idea being thrown around of a ResKnife version being made. This would mean OS X nativeness.

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Tom
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Quote

Originally posted by TomWoozle:
**As you can see there is the idea being thrown around of a ResKnife version being made. This would mean OS X nativeness.:)

**

This would mean the end of a point for creating NovaBurst.
ohh well

Quote

Originally posted by ThorPrime:
**This would mean the end of a point for creating NovaBurst.
ohh well

**

No it wouldn't. If NovaTools provides a baseline of editing, there is still room for many specialist editors. I'm hoping Pontus will update developers map for example. Someone might also come up with a much nicer way to edit missions or weapons. So If you want to have a go at NovaBurst then don't stop on my account. Besides, the ResKnife idea is still just an idea at this point. If NovaBurst is great then we may not need to bother!

If you have questions then ask away, I'll help if I can.

Perhaps we can move this thread to the Developers board and continue dicussing editing there? (Tom?)

Cheers
DrRalph

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NovaTools are coming.

Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**Perhaps we can move this thread to the Developers board and continue dicussing editing there? (Tom?)
**

I am moving it to the Developer's Corner so this conversation can become a more 'hardcore' editing discussion. Don't forget about us on the Nova board though, should any exciting news emerge.

------------------
Tom
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quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DrRalph:
...I was also able to add things like a customisable speling checker to the desc editor for fun...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I could spel I wouldn't have written a checker!

BTW you can add lists of words to the checker so it will recognise any new words you have made up. It highlights words that it doesn't recognise, it is still up to you to correct it or leave the speling as it is.

DrRalph

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NovaTools are coming.