It's a really great work! It really makes plug-in making easier: for instance when making a Pers, if he's incidentally killed, we can reactive it handly. I just have some notes:
-The AlwaysPers flag does not override the active pers flag: when a pers is dead, he's dead, even in the system he's always apppearing.
-why wouldn't you able to modify outfit related to weapons presence? You do the same when buying a weapon or ammunition : when you take off, EV(O) tranlates the outf related to weapons into weapons.
-You were right to do not allow the modification of mission-related data, seeing how much compicated it is; it's much better to let EV(O) handle these things (by taking the mission in the game)
-modifiing the weapons isn't useful: when you take off, EV(O) will not find the outf related to it, and will believe we've sold them, and remove the weapon. It mean you can't have some weapons (Disco Machine Gun, Phased beam turret, ) who have no linked outfitting.

I find this beta, experimental and untested (as far as I've used it, I've found nothing wrong ) program very well made. I can't help asking a C version (Apple Script stinks a bit )

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Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**It's a really great work! It really makes plug-in making easier
**

I'm glad it's working so well for you. While I know it'll be used to cheat, I made it so plug makers would have more options as far as how to design plugs. Again, I'm glad it's working.

Quote

**
-The AlwaysPers flag does not override the active pers flag: when a pers is dead, he's dead, even in the system he's always apppearing.
**

That is actually a really handy piece of info to know. I'd wanted to experiment with that, but hadn't found the time to do so. If you haven't, you should add this info to the "undocumented craftiness" post, along with a detailed explanation.

Quote

**
-why wouldn't you able to modify outfit related to weapons presence? You do the same when buying a weapon or ammunition : when you take off, EV(O) tranlates the outf related to weapons into weapons.
**

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Quote

**
-You were right to do not allow the modification of mission-related data, seeing how much compicated it is; it's much better to let EV(O) handle these things (by taking the mission in the game)
**

Really, the initial reason I didn't include active mission editing was because the mission parts of the file are really complicated. The easiest thing was to just not mess around with them.

Quote

**
-modifiing the weapons isn't useful: when you take off, EV(O) will not find the outf related to it, and will believe we've sold them, and remove the weapon. It mean you can't have some weapons (Disco Machine Gun, Phased beam turret, ) who have no linked outfitting.
**

Hmmm. There I can't help you. If there's no related outfit, ya just can't have them. You'd have to make a plugin that provides the necessary outf resources. Beyond that, if there is a weapon with an outfit, you can have it.

Quote

**
I find this beta, experimental and untested (as far as I've used it, I've found nothing wrong ) program very well made. I can't help asking a C version (Apple Script stinks a bit )
**

While C is currently beyond my reach, I started learning RealBasic on Saturday and am using the PFE as a learning project. Currently pilot file can be completely read, and the shipName and shipClass editing is ~80% complete. Because it is a new language for me, some things are going slowly. Already there is a remarkable increase in speed, which says a lot since it is loading the pilot file resources, plus many of the EVO data file resources to provide images and information. All the PFE2 applescript did was load the pilot file resources, and using parts of it was like watching paint dry.

While each aspect shouldn't take too long to finish (I could make a non-graphical editor in probably a day using RealBasic and basing it off the PFE applescript). The thing that is slowing me down is adding all the images and such. Maybe another month before it's feature complete enough for a demo release?

-STH

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Wonderful! I'm glad I've helped you, furthermore.
For what I've said on the outfits related to weapons, I will test it, but I'm sure it will work.
I never cheat (unless in the first times of EVC and testing my plugs).
One more note : on the docs of PFE, you say that you thinked to do not include the edition of money; but there's already thousands of ways to cheat with it, with plugs.
Where is undocumented craftiness, please?

Keep working, a more "transparent" version of PFE would greatly improve it (poor newbies going back and forth to the bible, resedit and your PFE to make the IDs match )

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Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
Where is undocumented craftiness, please?

http://www.ambrosias...m9&topic=000919

Quote

**
Keep working, a more "transparent" version of PFE would greatly improve it (poor newbies going back and forth to the bible, resedit and your PFE to make the IDs match )
**

I kinda liked the fact that if you didn't know what you were doing, you could seriously screw up your pilot file in PFE 1 and 2. In the end, though, I got a little frustrated having to use resedit to look things up in the data files and plugins. I still plan on including the ability to edit the pilot file using text only fields, but there will at least be image related feedback. Ex: if you type in 128 as the shipClass, a target pict of ship 128 and its name comes up, along with the ability to get more info (a la shipyard)

I'm really pleased that someone besides myself has found it useful.

-STH

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I've made some testing on what you didn't knew:
-strange dates such as 30/02/2150 makes no problem for EV(O): I landed and took off (it takes me one day) and the date was 01/03/2150
-the max lenght of the ship name when you buy it is 23. I've not tested modifiing it afterwards with PFE, for fear EVO wouldn't understand.
-when you modify outfits that link to weapons, EV(O), when loading the pilot, sees that the weapons and outfits do not match, and rely on the weapons to make the outfit match on them. However, if EV(O) detcts no outfits related to this weapon, it "thinks" there is a bug and remove the weapon. It means that if you want to modify your weapons, modifiing the outfits only will do nothing, you must modify the weapon ressource; you can modify the outfit too, but whatever happens EV(O) will follow the weapons and corect the outfit. Understood?
-The values of the legal status does not match with those in the Bible because, as said in the bible, the CrimTol of the government (25 for the UE) is translated into 1 for the status scale and for the mission. For instance, you have disabled 5 UE ships; the legalstatus in the pilot file will be of -50 (-10 for each); you legalstatus in the game is -50/25=-2, that means offender. Roger?

Everything interesting will go in the undocumented craftiness.
Keep working!
ZP

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Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**I've made some testing on what you didn't knew:
-the max lenght of the ship name when you buy it is 23....
-when you modify outfits that link to weapons, EV(O), when loading the pilot, sees that the weapons and outfits do not match, and rely on the weapons to make the outfit match on them....
-The values of the legal status does not match with those in the Bible because, as said in the bible, the CrimTol of the government (25 for the UE) is translated into 1 for the status scale and for the mission. For instance, you have disabled 5 UE ships; the legalstatus in the pilot file will be of -50 (-10 for each); you legalstatus in the game is -50/25=-2, that means offender. Roger?
**

Wow. This info is so useful for what I'm doing now. All of this info was stuff I didn't know, and I will add it to the PFE/EVO Bible amendment docs. Very nice.

I think in PFE I'm going to try to have "smart" weap editing, where it will automagicly add the correct resource, and not even show weapons that lack a corresponding outf. We'll see.

In case you're interested, PFE3 is kinda working. Combat rating, theCash, pilotName, shipName, and shipClass editing are all graphical, and by tomorrow I should have escort editing done as well (since the interface is essentially the same as changing the shipClass); maybe even editing of fighters. By monday I hope to have weap and outf editing done.

It's still very much in developemental stages, as it's not feature complete. If I had an honest-to-goodness registered copy of RealBasic I'd upload the builds, but I haven't run out of my 30 day trial yet. I may have to break down and pay sooner than I thought, however, just to get this working correctly.

I'm afraid lastStel, dominatedStellars, and everything else that should be done via a map will still be less than great for a while. I simply don't know enough about RealBasic at this point to make a working map based on EVO data files. I have some ideas, but I'd rather get a working, visually intuitive editor 75% working than sit on it until I figure out all the gee-whiz interface stuff.

I could post screenshots if you're interested....

On a side note, here are some interesting things to try: set your lastStell to a stellar in a system which is set to be invisible via visBits (I'm not sure what this would do). Another that I've tried is set your lastStellar to a stellar that doesn't exist. Weird results. Setting the shipClass to one that doesn't exist also yields some odd results.

-STH

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Quote

Originally posted by seant:
**On a side note, here are some interesting things to try: set your lastStell to a stellar in a system which is set to be invisible via visBits (I'm not sure what this would do). Another that I've tried is set your lastStellar to a stellar that doesn't exist. Weird results. Setting the shipClass to one that doesn't exist also yields some odd results.

-STH

**

For the ships and spöbs that do not exists, I'm afraid of the results. Maybe if I have a very old, unuseful computer that can run EVO
For setting the last stellar to one planet in a disappeared system, it's like modifing the system with mission bits while you are into the system, and I'm afraid of the results too
For dominating a planet that does no longer exists, I've once dominated Pariah (I love dominating renegade/pirate bases) and along with the Needle jammer missions it was abandonned, and I no longer recieved tribute. I don't know, however, if the stellar was no longer dominated in the pilot file, or if EVO ignored the fact that it was dominated, as it was no longer existing. I'll see
You sould put a note on what it does when you set the last spöb and the ship class to something that do not exist, or other weird and potentially dangerous things, both to prevent newbies to do that and to prevent people who know what they are doing to do that, because they will know what it will do
One little question: what was PFE 1? A never released and aborted attempt to do it with hypertalk?
Being in the thanks of PFE 3 would be more than enough for what I've done
Yes, screenshouts would interest me (and other people ); you well may retain this thread as a kind of progress log. Keep working!

ZP

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Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**
One little question: what was PFE 1? A never released and aborted attempt to do it with hypertalk?**

Give the man a cigar! I'd made a hypercard based editor(PFE1.0, unreleased) that relied on some applescripts to work correctly. Since the more complicated parts were done by applescripts, so the transition was easy (though I had to give up the ability to make straight forward interfaces). I'm discovering that RealBasic is a lot like Hypercard in the way it's set up

Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**
Yes, screenshouts would interest me (and other people ); you well may retain this thread as a kind of progress log.**

Ok. I'll post some screen shots tomorrow. Here's a quick log:

-3.3.1: Crash course on RealBasic. Dislike the O'Reilly book; must. have. more. examples. interface appearances based on EVO DITL resources. Shipyard, Escort/Fighter Selection, cargo, outfit, and main windows roughed out.
-4.3.1: resource loading, pilot file decryption and parsing in variables 99% worked out.
-5.3.1: shipyard buttons that allow scrolling through ships working
-6.3.1: editing of shipClass working, fields allowing alteration of shipName working, cash editing working.
-7.3.1: pilotName edit fields working well.
-10.3.1:cargo editing done (includes use of +5, +10, +50 mod keys), day, month, year editing done, fuel editing by draging on fuel bar or manually typing value done, exploration editing cobbled together and working. Legal status kinda working.
-11.3.1 outfit, weapon and ammo editing done. misnBit editing done.

On a related note, a few people have sent in complaints about PFE asking for a folder. I have no idea what's going on. No where in the script does PFE ask for a folder. Unless people send me info besides "it doesn't work. What can I do to make it work," I can't help. Include your machine type, OS version, applescript version, and a detailed explanation of what is wrong.

In general, if you are running OS9.x with applescript 1.4.3 or higher, you shouldn't have problems. For those that wanted a step-by-step usage:

-1.) Download PFE. If it doesn't automatically decompress, decompress it.
-2.) The decompressed file makes a folder called "PFEv2.0 folder". Move it off of the desktop. PFE doesn't like running from the desktop, for some reason. The PFE folder contains:
--PFEv2.0.appl
--Example pilot file
--EV Bible Appendix IV, V.txt
--Read Me.txt
--Why is PFE so frickin' slow.txt
and a folder called "SCripting additions you need"
-3.) Open "SCripting additions you need", select all the files present, and drag them into the "Scripting Additions" folder that is in your "System Folder"
-4.)Open Read Me.txt and read it. If you don't understand this file, PFE2.0 is not for you. Throw it out.
-5.)Understand most of the EV Bible and how to use ResEdit. If you don't understand how to use ResEdit to make and edit plugins, PFEv2.0 is not for you. Throw it out.
-6.)Launch PFEv2.0.appl
-7.)It will ask you for what pilot file you want to edit. Choose one.
-8.)Edit away.

(This message has been edited by seant (edited 03-12-2001).)

Even more interesting testing, about dominated spöbs:
-if you set a spöb that has disappeared (or has not already appeared) to dominated, EV(O) ignores it: you do neither receive tribute, nor get Bounty Hunterrs after you, and EV(O) does not change the situation in the pilot file (I guess a not already appeared spöb that is set to dominated would be dominated when it will appear )
-However, if you set an uninhabited spöb (landable or not) to dominated, it will give you tribute, send after you Bounty Hunters, and (the most funny thing) the brackets around it when you want to land will be in green, but the image on the radar will still be blue or grey (the normal color)
-At last, setting unexisting spöbs to dominated is unuseful : it is ignored
I'd like to beta-test PFE 3, it would be interesting
Keep working!
ZP

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