I've spent the past year making the transition from HyperTalk to really being able to do pretty much anything I want with AppleScript, and am still finding it lacking. Ideally I'd like to learn C/C++, but I don't have to time to really dedicate myself to that. Instead, I'm trying to ramp up to "real" computer languages.

That having been said, I'm considering moving to VisualBasic(VB) for future projects. Alternately, I'm looking at PERL as well.

Do people have any comments on what the VB learning curve is? I know a lot of folks on this board use it, and I'd like their thoughts. Specifically, how is it at manipulating resource data and creating user interfaces? Any experience on rewriting AppleScript apps so they are VB? What is the speed of VB vs AppleScript? Etc.

-STH

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Well don't even think about Visual Basic if you want to develop anything for the Mac, as far as I'm aware, it's not available.

The alternative is REALBasic, that's the package I used to develop The Docks. The advantages of it are the visual environment, so interfaces can be created quickly, and it is not just Basic, it's a full object orientated environment, with some powerful features. You can access the Macintosh Toolbox, write databases (if you have the pro version), write internet programs, use serial ports, it's basically (pardon the pun ) a very good environment.

If you've never done any object orientated development, you'll have a tough time adjusting, it requires a different way of thinking about solutions to problems, but the Basic language itself is a piece of cake. REALBasic is a slightly modified version of true basic but you'll get the hang of it in no time.

The homepage is (url="http://"http://www.realsoftware.com")www.realsoftware.com(/url), you can download a free demo version there.

Kane O'Donnell

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Having given the program a wrap I suppose I ought to answer your questions!!

1. REALBasic is second to none in MacOS interface design. Anything you can't do in the visual environment can be created with Canvas controls and a bit of hand-coding. Look at The Docks.

2. In the area of resource translation, it does the job - if you're interested in importing/exporting EVO plug ins, my EVOPlugInHandler class will be available to the public after EVO God is released. Resource manipulation was initially tricky for me to figure out but all the tools you need are available in the development environment.

3. REALBasic isn't a scripting language, and as such the actual syntax is much lower level that Apple Script, so you'll need to spend some time learning the language, it's quite different from AppleScript. It's also more powerful, and much much faster, when compiled.

NOTE: A jump to C/C++ isn't recommended from AppleScript!!! Java would be the next language after REALBasic, it's not quite as tricky. From there, C/C++ is another step up from Java. For the most part, there isn't anything you can do in C/C++ that you can't do in REALBasic, not at most people's level of programming anyway, and there aren't any Mac environments that have anywhere near the power to quickly create interfaces the way RB does.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

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Listen to Shado

I have learnt C, I started on RB but found it's bugs got in the way a few times (but I was doing tricky stuff).

As for differences between VB and Applescript, you can't compare them. Applescript is a high level interface to Apple Interapplication Communication protocols. Basically, it can only tell other apps to do stuff, it cant do anything itself, it relies on other apps or OSAX. It is also mac-only and uses a very english-like 'language' (or whatever dialect you have installed)

VB on the other hand is a windows-only basic-like development enviroment. Applications are compiled and run self contained (well, not really. VB requires hefty runtime librarys). The language is basic on BASIC, but is not very close. Learning BASIC wont help VB programming.

There is NO mac VB. You can, however, use the mac equivalent of it, REALbasic. See shado's post for the URL. I believe that RB is now $15, which is cheaper than VB I think. It can also compile to both Mac and Windows.

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--sitharus
(url="http://"http://www.evp.f2s.com/boards/")The Alternative EV/O Boards(/url) (url="http://"mailto:sitharus@ureach.com")mailto:sitharus@ureach.com(/url)sitharus@ureach.com

REALBasic 2.1 is the latest version (besides the beta release of 3.1), and it works very well, it is a huge jump from version 1. The professional version (required for database compilation and for releasing shareware) costs around $250, there is a student discount for those who qualify, that reduces to cost to something like $150. Check the current prices I haven't looked for a while!

It is also WAY faster than VB, it doesn't operate the same way. Then again you can't really compare them on their home platforms. But a RB program compiled for windows seems to work faster than the same program in VB. I use both in my Software Design and Development course.

For anything to do with EV, RB is quite sufficient, and better for interface design, IMHO.

Then again, learning C has it's advantages for other things... if you have time to learn it, AND digest the Mac ToolBox (which I detest!!). I can write in C++, but since I can't navigate the Mac Toolbox, I can't write apps that are any use at all. If you want results fast, you'll need a visual environment.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

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heh, toolbox is easy when you get into it. If you want to learn, start by thinking that the toolbox procs are equiv to RB's class methods. You may find it easier.

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--sitharus
(url="http://"http://www.evp.f2s.com/boards/")The Alternative EV/O Boards(/url) (url="http://"mailto:sitharus@ureach.com")mailto:sitharus@ureach.com(/url)sitharus@ureach.com

Hmm, VisualBASIC to C++. An interesting step up in my experience. I learned VB about a year before I really started into C++ and aside from learning the basic things about programming (loops, for-if, etc.) it wasn't helpful in the least for learning C++ since I'd already hit those things learning regular BASIC.

If you don't have a PC then go for RealBASIC like the others have said. Making something with RealBASIC isn't something to brag about, but it'll give the learning curve you need.

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The never duplicated
Never capitalized
And always puce:
forge

Quote

Originally posted by forge:
**
Making something with RealBASIC isn't something to brag about
**

Hehe I resent that!!

Kane O'Donnell

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shado83

(This message has been edited by shado83 (edited 01-25-2001).)