A new twist to the Finish the game problem. I've done the art theft thing, found the data tapes,But On arriving at Yeni Istanbul I somehow opted to keep my Amnesia.
Question. Might I have accidentally offed Detton or whatever the sods name is, way back, and therefore ballsed my chances of finishing the game??? Eh???
I mean there is nothing on any mission computer but the same old stuff.
HELP ME FIND MY MIND SO THAT I CAN BE FREE!!!!
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Memories, Of a time we used to share...
7 15 192
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Actually, what you got marks the true end of Femme Fatale. You are quite finished.
UEC
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(url="http://"http://www.oxy-web.com/uec/7thAxis.htm")7th Axis: A Round 5 Planetarion Galaxy(/url)
We will strive for nothing but excellence and success. We've got 20 spots left, secure yours today! -
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Unfortunately,Crusader's right.
You never do manage to get your memories back.
I wanted them too.
**Yes you do, its just that your character CHOOSES not to take them back. For good reason, too. Would you want to have the memories of a former war criminal plaguing your personality, and your conscience?
"I am Jasta Hela. And in that I will be content"
To me, that's a fine ending....so be happy.
UEC
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(url="http://"http://www.oxy-web.com/uec/7thAxis.htm")7th Axis: A Round 5 Planetarion Galaxy(/url)
We will strive for nothing but excellence and success. We've got 20 spots left, secure yours today! -
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Yes you do, its just that your character CHOOSES not to take them back. For good reason, too. Would you want to have the memories of a former war criminal plaguing your personality, and your conscience?
I for one would like to say yes, I would want my memories. Not having the memories of
having done something does not mean that you didn't do them. Not to start a philosophical
debate or anything, but that is akin to pleading non-guilty to murder by reason of
insanity. They still did it, regardless of their mental faculties at the time.Personally, I'd rather have Jasta regain her memories, feel extremelly poor about what
she did in the past, and then seek to spend the rest of her life trying to pay off the
debt to society that she owes. However this doesn't happen. Instead we have some
raging war criminal that commits heinous offenses, loses her memory, and now feels
that she can simply begin life anew from this point out, and to heck with the past.Sounds pretty psycho to me. Besides, getting away with it only encourages her for the
future. If she decides to return to a life of crime, she can simply go and get her
memory erased again and be free once again to begin life over without repercussions.Oh well, enough philosophical babble, heh. If it were my decision, I'd have taken the
memories back. It is called developing stronger character by accepting the responsibility of your past actions. -
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**I for one would like to say yes, I would want my memories. Not having the memories of having done something does not mean that you didn't do them. Not to start a philosophical debate or anything, but that is akin to pleading non-guilty to murder by reason of insanity. They still did it, regardless of their mental faculties at the time.Personally, I'd rather have Jasta regain her memories, feel extremelly poor about what she did in the past, and then seek to spend the rest of her life trying to pay off the debt to society that she owes. However this doesn't happen. Instead we have some raging war criminal that commits heinous offenses, loses her memory, and now feels that she can simply begin life anew from this point out, and to heck with the past.
Sounds pretty psycho to me. Besides, getting away with it only encourages her for the future. If she decides to return to a life of crime, she can simply go and get her memory erased again and be free once again to begin life over without repercussions.
Oh well, enough philosophical babble, heh. If it were my decision, I'd have taken the memories back. It is called developing stronger character by accepting the responsibility of your past actions.
**I disagree wholeheartedly. What you don't understand is that Jasta Hela is an ENTIRELY different person than the one who commiteed all those atrocities. Vayella Ayes is NOT Jasta Hela, and Jasta Hela is NOT Vayella Ayes. They look the same; the similarity ends there. Now, ask yourself this, if the two are different people, why should one pay the price for what the other one did? As far as anyone is concerned, Vayella Ays is dead. Why should that change?
Surely, you will not tell us that HumanJustice was justified in its actions?
UEC
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(url="http://"http://www.oxy-web.com/uec/7thAxis.htm")7th Axis: A Round 5 Planetarion Galaxy(/url)
We will strive for nothing but excellence and success. We've got 20 spots left, secure yours today!(This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 08-04-2001).)
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Let's put the question another way:
would you want your memories back if it meant erasing all of your 'new' personality (like Total Recall, or, more originally, like Channis in Second Foundation?)
or would you want them back if you knew that the old personality and the new personality would both be there, but that the stronger one (which would probably be the old one, as it was around longer) would swamp the new one?
In the original (and unfinished) novel Vayella Ays turns up on Earth as a refugee in full possession of her memories (ie, the memory wipe wasn't part of the story at that time) trying to escape from her past by lying about it to everyone - fairly convincincly. But she is given a black dot on a white piece of paper, which she recognises as the sign that she has been discovered. Various people whom she has fooled then work hard to save her, discovering the pieces of her past on the way.
The problem which I reached is, once they found out, why would they still bother? Or, in the game version, if Jasta Hela becomes the old Vayella Ays again, shouldn't she then be liable for all the crimes she committed?
Oh, BTW, Vayella Ays blew up half of Alba as a way of destroying the concentration camp she had been running, and thereby eliminating all the witnesses to her atrocities. I think that was in the prologue. If not, my apologies.
Martin
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M A R T I N T U R N E R -
Now that I think about it,it was.
I never thought that the Vayella personality might dominate the Jasta Hela personality,but I suppose it's possible.
And now a question,because I can't post topics,not being registered:
Who or what are the Vorinians,and why do their fleets turn up as ion storms & vortexes?
Do they have something to do with the ship graphics for a little weird orange fighter and a Millenium Falcon-type ship which never appeared in the game? -
Vor is a system lost inside the M42 nebula. Alongside a few near neighbours, it has been out of touch with the rest of the galaxy for several centuries. It never made it into the Femme Fatale story, but it may appear in a later one.
If Vorinians are appearing as fleets of Ion storms etc, then something has gone wrong. Must check... must check...
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M A R T I N T U R N E R -
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Originally posted by Azroen:
**
Personally, I'd rather have Jasta regain her memories, feel extremelly poor about what
she did in the past, and then seek to spend the rest of her life trying to pay off the
debt to society that she owes. However this doesn't happen. Instead we have some
raging war criminal that commits heinous offenses, loses her memory, and now feels
that she can simply begin life anew from this point out, and to heck with the past.
**Why would she feel poorley about what she did? She didn't feel poorley about it at the time, so if she regains her memories, she will resume not feeling poorley, and now that the government that she was against has won, she would be fairly POd at the whole planet. Incidentaly, I think that it would be less than difficult for someone with the most powerful warship in the galaxy and quite a lot of money to fine quite a few more nukes.
Instead, she feels poorley about what she has done. She could very well try to pay off her debt to society(though she dosen't actually have one on account of not being the person who does), but the game left off there so we'll never know unless Mr. Turner releases something that decides the matter.
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Some call it newbie bashing. We prefer the term 'tactical destruction of potential future enemies'. -
Of course, part of the purpose of writing Femme Fatale was to stimulate exactly this kind of moral debate.
Jasta Hela can - if she wants to - find out an awful lot about what she did while Vayella Ays. There are people who remember it, historical records, scenes to be visited. However, starting with a clean slate, the 'new' Jasta Hela made moral choices which led her in a different direction from the 'old' Vayella Ays, and it's fairly certain that she would find the old self fairly repugnant. If she regained the memories, but retained her new personality, then she would only be regaining a vast nightmare, with the additional horror that it was all true. And she might also regain some unpleasant habits.
As far as repaying her debt to society (by the way, I hate that phrase) why does she need to remember what she has done in order to repay it? Or are we actually saying that there has to be a degree of retribution, not just repayment - she has to feel terrible for the rest of her life.
I guess, at the end of the day, Femme Fatale is about mercy more than about judgment.
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M A R T I N T U R N E R -
Hmmm... Intruiging...
I always found femme fatale to be more than just another plugin for EVO. That was the great thing about it martin, the fact that it wasn't "Go here. Kill this. Deliver this. Yay." It had plot and charachters and was really well done. It was and still is a completley unique plug (excepting frozen heart of course) which made it great. Not only that, but it also sparks this kind of debate. It must be amazing to have written a plug that does all that.
All I can say is well done.
~A~
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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me- -
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Originally posted by Azdara:
**Hmmm... Intruiging...I always found femme fatale to be more than just another plugin for EVO. That was the great thing about it martin, the fact that it wasn't "Go here. Kill this. Deliver this. Yay." It had plot and charachters and was really well done. It was and still is a completley unique plug (excepting frozen heart of course) which made it great. Not only that, but it also sparks this kind of debate. It must be amazing to have written a plug that does all that.
All I can say is well done.
~A~
**
It's very kind of you to say so.
Actually, though, I was inspired by Angels of Vengeance and Eye of Orion (both for EV) which expanded the original game way beyond what it was, and opened the door to emotional involvement with the characters. I played both of them non-stop until I had completed them when I first got them. Amazing plugins.
I'll never forget hailing an Amazon ship in AofV and being told 'May disaster never befall your people'.
Martin
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M A R T I N T U R N E R -
Really?
I remmber playing ĹofV and thinking,"Holy Cat,that Minotaur looks weird."
Yeah,it had emotional involvement,like Mugabi and Destiny,but the Frozen Heart,and Femme Fatale,of course,are the only plugins which I feel have ever handled emotion realistically.
Good work,Martin Turner!------------------
Long live the Alien Emperor,may he rule for a million years! -Third Star Fleet Commander Shade,following the Battle of NGC-0538