My race is basicly a race of mercinaries. They aren't actually at war with anybody, but they rent their solders out to the other races. I figure that they would use heavy/charged particle close range weapons (i.e. nuetron cannons, ion beams, and heavy particle cannons), but very little in they way of long range weapons. They would also use flak-type weapons for dealing with fighters.
------------------
Confucius say: "Man who stand on toilet, is high on pot."
Okay, here's my idea for a race. The Pavonians, I have named them. They evolved from Avian Reptiles, So they are Fighter Pilots by nature. Their fighters are the best in the Galaxy. Their freighters are weak, though, and often open to attack. This causes economic problems at home. Their warships are just souped up freighters (i.e more shields, faster turn) with Fighter Bays. Their fighters use fast missiles and beam weapons. Their Warships use lots of cannon/turret type weapons. Their government is and advancement-obbesed dictatorship. The government often puts scientific progress ahead of basic human (or Pavonian, in this case) needs.
Now I can't do this myself, I can only help someone who wants to use my ideas. I have a fighter graphic already, as well as 2 weapons that I have designed for this race. Anyone who wants to work on my idea WILL get LOTS of help from me.
Now, about my earlier question. What kind of Target Graphics are you using? I suggested the kind found in EVula's 3D Graphics becasue anyone (including me) can make them and they are IMO pretty.
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"We should develop anti-satellite weapons because we could not have survived without them in Red Storm Rising." -Dan Quayle
AIM-OctoberFost
Yahoo Messenger-OctoberFost
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Okay guys, Its kinda hard getting all this down.
I have all of your sign up forms so far (I WANT MORE THO, COME AND SIGN UP!!!!). I'll also put all the info we've put down so far, as well as some slot reservations (we might change those a bit later, as we see accordingly).
Also, in a day or so, I'll have a webboard up, either on oxy-soft itself, or a personal boardhost for the time being, just so we can set up.
Also, I invite any of you to join #worlds on irc on efnet (use irc.prison.net). I'll be setting up something there so we can chat on irc (and we will, so if you don't have it, get it).
CS
Ok, um, my species doesn't go my the super-intelligant stereo type. They are fairly war like, and fighting communism. Thats not politics, thats common sense.
Don't worry, it won't unbalance the game...we do need to establish a relative shield average. Will the shields be around what the shields were in EV, or EVO? I'd prefer EV.
Their weapons won't be the most destructive, but they will do some interesting things...especially with my 1 smoke trail resource :D.
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--
"Do or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
Why don't those of you who only signed up to work on only a section of the galaxy (Servack and Octoberfost, for instance) get together, see if you could work on a single section together?
Also, could you, CS and the rest of you confirm that this is how the ID distribution is fixed at the moment:
Dave Lesovoy - first slot
Bubbles - second slot
Cinga - third slot
Kwanzar - forth slot
Servack - fifth slot
Octoberfost - sixth slot
--Seventh slot is open--
Is this correct? Does everyone agree?
Any problems, suggestions?
Bubbles
(This message has been edited by Bubbles (edited 06-18-2000).)
Alright w/ me...
Are there any deadlines or anything like that...I could probably whip out a section of the galaxy (may be a bit buggy) within the week, and have most graphics done by then. I work a bit better w/ deadlines, so give me one, just for me, no one else may want one, but I do....PEACE YO!
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~Kwanza~
"Quoted the Kwanza Man...nevermore"
Quote
Originally posted by Dave Lesovoy:
**Ok, um, my species doesn't go my the super-intelligant stereo type. They are fairly war like, and fighting communism. Thats not politics, thats common sense.
**
Your disrespect of human lives is worrisome. You condone waging war against another country just because you don't like their governmental system. I hope that was meant as a joke (albeit a tasteless one).
As to our race's relationship, I'd go for a cold-war-type haggling at the frontiers, but no outright war with the goal of overtaking each other's territories. There could be a mission string about colonizing an uninhabited planet half-ways between our two territories, which would lead to armed conflict etc. I don't intend my race to be evil per se. If their being socialists makes them evil in your eyes, well, then go visit a therapist.
My race will also be quite busy fighting off pirates looking for lucrative ore and equipment transports at the edges of their space.
Quote
Originally posted by Dave Lesovoy:
**Don't worry, it won't unbalance the game...we do need to establish a relative shield average. Will the shields be around what the shields were in EV, or EVO? I'd prefer EV.
**
Are they much different? EV seems to have a greater chasm between civilian and military ships, that seems realistic to me. On the other hand, EVO explores the differences between armor and shields more deeply, which I find interesting.
-- Cinga
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Woah, communism would be great - if it worked. But it doesn't. Name one communist country where the citizens (other than the leaders/bigshots) like their form of government?
Well, by shield average, in EVO, its alot lower. The highest things get is around 500. In EV its 1000. I also enjoy the big difference between civilian and military ships.
Speaking of, if we all fill up our IDs with ships etc, there will be very few slots left for standard shipping missions etc. Or civilian ships, or standard outfits. Thats another problem we need to confront.
Cinga, if it makes you happy, they won't be anti-communist.
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--
"Do or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Scurvy:
**Okay guys, Its kinda hard getting all this down.
I have all of your sign up forms so far (I WANT MORE THO, COME AND SIGN UP!!!!). I'll also put all the info we've put down so far, as well as some slot reservations (we might change those a bit later, as we see accordingly).
Also, in a day or so, I'll have a webboard up, either on oxy-soft itself, or a personal boardhost for the time being, just so we can set up.
Also, I invite any of you to join #worlds on irc on efnet (use irc.prison.net). I'll be setting up something there so we can chat on irc (and we will, so if you don't have it, get it).
CS**
For referece purposes, note that while I have cpmpleted a sign-up form, it is only as a kibitzer, not as a full working member.
CS, I think I'll passs on IRC, can someone send me logs of the sessions? Just too many other demands on my time.
A few comments here, for what they are worth:
I think some of you are getting ahead of yourselves. It's good to be enthusiastic, but if you jump into things too quickly, you may have to undo and/or redo much of your work. Do all the planning and thinking you can, make notes of everything you want to do, but don't do much if any creating of resources until the project gets organized.
I notice that one very important issue that has not been resolved is WHERE all these different governments are going to be located. That is a critical piece of information to have before you start placing systems. I suggest someone or several someones produce a galactic map with proposed territories marked in so everyone know where to put their systems. And you need to decide where the player will start the game - will it be in the territory of one race, or in a "neutral zone" or independent area?
Another issue is the allocation of system ID numbers. If, as some have discussed, you wish to reserve a bloc of ID numbers for changing systems with VisBits, those should probably be taken out of the
'pool' before resources are allocated to the different govts - and that would reduce the initial number of systems each government would have. Maybe assign 100 system IDs to each govt and hold the other 300 in reserve? I would recommend that the last (highest) numbers (829-1128) be reserved. (You should also probably reserve some mission slots for general cargo and passenger missions, but that is less serious.)
I don't remember whether it has been discussed or what has been decided, but are you talking about different socities or different species (or both) for the races/govts you are planning? That can make some major differences. Non-human species could and probably would have very different concepts and ideas than humans, even if they were humanoid. Aliens might require the same types of planets as humans, or they might have very different environmental needs so that they would not relly compete with humans for the same types of planets (For instance, a cooperative agreement might be worked out where humans take class M planets and the Dren take class G worlds, maybe even in the same system.) One alien race may be pathologically xenophobic, so its natural reaction is to attempt to destroy any other race it encounters (including humans.) Another race may believe it is destined to rule all races and try to conquer everywhere it goes. Another may be generally indifferent to all other races. Anyway you need to decide wheteher you are dealing with humans or nonhumans or both and plan accordingly.
Another concept to consider is that there can be more than one party or faction within a government or race; humans are not all of the same beliefs, why should other races be different? (If they should be different, explain why in 500 words and have the paper on my desk Monday morning 
)
That's all I have for now. This thing is looking good, but take some time to organize now, or you will have to spend much more time doing it later. Been there, done that.
------------------
Joe Burnette
"I find that humans can be divided into only two meaningful categories: Decent Humans and Sonsofbitches; both types appear to be evenly distributed
among all shapes, colors, sizes, and nationalities." -- Keith Laumer
Quote
Originally posted by Dave Lesovoy:
Woah, communism would be great - if it worked. But it doesn't. Name one communist country where the citizens (other than the leaders/bigshots) like their form of government?
It doesn't work in our time, since our technology and resources haven't yet brought us past the point where we don't have to worry about the basic necessities such as home/food/clothes etc anymore. Also, the socialisms of the past have failed mostly due to corruption and the personal power hunger of a few very influential people. These are errors that can be circumvented in a more advanced and well-set society.
And finally: I am personally a democrat. I don't think socialism to be the "right" government, but certain elements are great and should be included in the "perfect" government to form a sort of social democracy (or, if you wish, a democratic socialism). Technically, socialism is much more of an economic phenomenon than a political one. Its antithesis is capitalism, not democracy. I'm sure you agree that capitalism isn't the "right thing" either. The ideal way is, as always, somewhere in between the extremes.
BTW, I always hated History in school, and I never read the political parts of newspapers. I don't really know much about politics, so please correct me if I'm wrong. :rolleyes:
Quote
Originally posted by Dave Lesovoy:
**Well, by shield average, in EVO, its alot lower. The highest things get is around 500. In EV its 1000. I also enjoy the big difference between civilian and military ships.
Speaking of, if we all fill up our IDs with ships etc, there will be very few slots left for standard shipping missions etc. Or civilian ships, or standard outfits. Thats another problem we need to confront.
Cinga, if it makes you happy, they won't be anti-communist.
**
I think we should reserve at least one if not two slots for civilians and pirates (which supposedly use the same commonplace ships, as in EV and EVO). Is anyone of the project participants willing to do this rather than one of the special gövts?
And Dave: Your government can be as anti-communist as they want, if it enriches the game dynamics. What I was worried about is your personal attitude towards socialism and war.
-- Cinga
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Well, I had a lot of spare time recently and my inner graphics designer woke up from a 15 year sleep. I actually made a missile-type weapon! Then I tried to make a ship but my beginger's luck ran out and I trashed my graphic software in a hot white rage. Anywho, I got 2 Pavonian ships and 2 weapons (3 actually, but 2 use the same graphic) With the missiles (Cobalt Missiles, I have named them after my ill-fated EV plug) you can't buy a laucher. You must buy a ship that HAS a launcher to use them. It's an incite to work for them. The Pavonians, as I mentioned earlier, have good fighters but all their other ships are CRAP.
Can I have my IDs now? Via e-mail? PLEASE??? It would make me feel better. And PLEASE decide on a Target Picture type! I can't go on withput knowing. I already made 2 of the kind I sugested. I'll be using EVO Developer's map to make my Systems, ResEdit for ships, weapons, outfits, govs, etc and Schmelta V to make missions and Dudes and Persons. Then I'll send in the crap I made and Cinga or CS or whoever is in charge and they can put it with the rest. Thank you, i'm off to find EVO Devolper's map.
BTW, This has effectively set the target release date for Great War up to Mid-Winter 2001.
------------------
"We should develop anti-satellite weapons because we could not have survived without them in Red Storm Rising." -Dan Quayle
AIM-OctoberFost
Yahoo Messenger-OctoberFost
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Are there any more slots left?
I would love to do a section of the galaxy.
I have lots of experience in plug programming and a little in 3d graphics. I would love to programme a govt, etc and despite my other projects I will have a lot of time to dedicate to the project.
I have many ideas for govts and this would give me a chance to put the 3d stuff I have done into practice.
BTW I like the Cyperpunk idea.
------------------
'Stormbringer!' he cried and then the
hellsword struck his chest.
He felt the icy touch of the blade against his heart,
felt his body constrict,
felt it sucking his soul from the very depths
of his being,felt his whole personality being drawn into the
Runesword.
[mailto:jr.watkins@virgin.
net](http://mailto:jr.watkins@virgin.<br />
net)jr.watkins@virgin.
net
Sure...just sign up, there's one slot left i believe.
CS
Quote
Originally posted by Stormbringer:
**BTW I like the Cyperpunk idea.
**
I'm glad to hear it. Do you have any suggestions for an EVO govt like this? At the moment, I'm plannng on keeping the government itself very low key in the plot line, having the player work mostly for individuals. I'm planning on making a cyberspace aspect of the mission string, a little like Gibson's matrix or the one in the old (but very good) Brittish RPG, Shadowrun. Aspects of film-noir (like Blade Runner) if I can pull it off. Anything else you think I should make sure to include?
Bubbles
(This message has been edited by Bubbles (edited 06-18-2000).)
If anyone cares, I have made a really rough map of a possible Thousand Worlds galaxy. Nothing more than a starting point for planning, really. If anyone wants to see a copy, e-mail me.
------------------
Joe Burnette
"I find that humans can be divided into only two meaningful categories: Decent Humans and Sonsofbitches; both types appear to be evenly distributed
among all shapes, colors, sizes, and nationalities." -- Keith Laumer
Progress! I've allready got two ships and 8 weapons worked up. All I've got to do is make the missions, and governments, and stellars, and systems, and bla bla bla bla bla. Fun.
BTW: I keep getting funky errors when I try and make spďn resources in ResEdit. It says that it found an unknown field type. Anyone know what I should do about that?
------------------
Confucius say: "Man who stand on toilet, is high on pot."
I've got a couple ships completed, but not rendered. Thats it. I am waiting to any actual plug making until we get the whole thing planned out. I don't want to have to change the x/y coordinates of all my systems =P.
The ultimate semi-lowcost modeling suite: Infini-D 3.0+ and whatever Strata's latest free offering is (I am just using Vision 4.0).
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--
"Do or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
OK, I've decided on a name for my stellar nation... Obrenaďa. The people would be called the Obrenai (stress on the first syllable, standard Latin phonetics with rolling r's). The adjective would be Obrenaďan, and a single citizen would be an Obrenya.
The capital planet is going to be Trontar (hommage to Asimov). I haven't decided on any other planet names yet.
Weapons:
- Gatling Cannon (comes as front swivel, rear swivel or turret): very light (turret probably only 12 tons or so) but short-ranged and rather weak in terms of damage (somewhat like blaze cannons).
- Railgun (straight cannon or turret): very heavy (cannon 30 tons, turret 50 (same rate of fire)), max per ship 1 and 1 resp., ammo costs extra (1 ton per shell) and is limited in number (what's the limit with dispies?). Kicks butt.
Rail weapons can't be sold back once they're installed.
- Cruise Missile (foward-firing): slow and dumb-homing, somewhat like hunter missiles. Fire simultaneously.
Outfits: 8 for the weapons, plus the ceramuth armor plate.
Ships:
In general, armor/shield ratio is 2:1.
- Tigermoth class courier shuttle. A shuttle-sized ship with 10 jumps of fuel and more armor than you'd expect. It's got no weapon space left beside the single rear gatling cannon and the afterburner. AI: Wimpy Trader
- Stormbird class cannonship: Similar in strength and manoeuverability to a Pirate Arada, armed with four swivel gatlings and one railgun including 12 or so shells. Decent recharge rate. AI: Interceptor
- Nightwhale class freighter: Similar to the Miranu Heavy Freighter. Weapons: One gatling turret. Easy prey for Pirates when unguarded. AI: Wimpy Trader
- Fireturtle class armored transporter: Similar to the UE freight courier. With its tough armor, it's well suited to perform dangerous front-line deliveries. Weapons: Two gatling turrets, one missile tube with 10 cruise missiles, afterburner. AI: Brave Trader
- Thunderbull class attack cruiser: Regular-sized capital ship, featuring four gatling turrets, a railgun turret with 24 shells (and a blind spot to the back), two missile tubes with 24 cruise missiles. These numbers are only rough estimates, as I don't have the EV and EVO data available right now. They will be adjusted in due time. AI: Warship
- Probably an experimental missileboat that might be developed during the mission string.
Availability: Do a basic transport mission for the Obrenai and you'll get access to the Tigermoth, Nightwhale, Fireturtle, Gatling family, Cruise Missiles and Ceramuth armor. For the rest, do the whole mission string... 
Conclusion: Obrenaďan technology features two goodies worth the effort: Ceramuth armor and the Railguns. Their other weapons are somewhat below average. In terms of combat ships, the Stormbird excels in its size class, while the Thunderbull is rather average. The Fireturtle isn't much of a threat in strategic terms, but it's a great ship for the more peaceful player who wants to stay alive while making profit across the frontiers.
Any other tech concepts out there?
-- Cinga
PS: I have 9 outfits, 3 ships, and 3 weapons that remain unused. I donate them to the Independents/Pirates and their commonplace technology.
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I've just recently heard about this project, and having heard similar ideas over the years and seen them never work, I wasn't particularily interested. However, it appears to me that you have several well motivated and experienced developers here willing to work until this thing is done. As a player with a little bit of experience with making EVO plug-ins, I thought I might offer a bit of advice on how you could possibly make this work.
First, make sure you have proven/working developers on your team. A group project can't be a learning experience for beginners who have never used Res-Edit before or don't know what a "düde" field is. If you want to learn how to make a plug-in, that's fine, but within a large group project, it just doesn't work.
Second, make sure you have dedicated people who understand the amount of work they're getting themselves in to. EV/O players tend to have very short attention spans for projects- so if this happens, move on without them, unless it is some unforeseen circumstance. More often than not, they'll just get bored and move on, without telling anyone. If you do it right, no one will get tired of the project.
Third, get one good graphic artist to do all the ship sprites. If you try to mix various graphics, it probably won't turn out right. If you can, get someone with decent skills and present them with a good opportunity to show off what they can do, especially if this is sucessful. Good plugs get into MacAddict and other magazines, where people will see them. Matt Dailey or David of Meowx would be ideal.
Fourth, get a good project leader. I would suggest someone like Joe Burnette, Scurvy, or Dave Lesovoy. Each seem to have the kind of talent and drive you need to complete something like this. Hell, if Joe has kept delta_v "alive" for this long, he could do anything.
Fifth, use an organized system for doing complicated overlapping areas, like systems and planets. I'd suggest you do something like this; have the leader do the first 10-15 systems (Maybe independant worlds in the middle of the various proposed sections) where the player starts, and from where the entire rest of the galaxy is based. Then, pass the system data files on to the next person to fill in their various systems, as based upon a loose design you agree upon, and so on. While they are waiting to program their systems, others can design weapons, ships, and missions.
Sixth, make a loose plot outline of what you want to do, but don't go into so much detail that you become stuck on small issues like what fleets go where or how powerful each side should be. Often times, rpgs got stuck on things like that- do the bulk of the programming first, then sit back and debate the minor details. Also, don't get caught up on ship/weapon balance early on. Let everyone design their races and systems, then have the leader and programmers go over the whole thing and balance it out. It probably won't work to do it as a huge group. Some things in plug-in making must be done alone, without other people involved.
Finally, just sit down and do the damn thing. Don't stand around or hang out on irc and say, "wouldn't it be cool if.." or "we should do this.." Do it. With EV0 1.0.2 just out, and EV3 out sometime in the future, interest in EVO/plugs has never been higher. Everyone should submit their plot proposals, bang out a decent outline, find an accomplished graphics artist to do ships, and another to do planets/landings, and program. You'll find that it gets easier and much cooler when stuff gets done.
Just my six or seven cents..
~Bomb
