Ambrosia Garden Archive
    • Azdgari Warship vs Igazra: different results?


      In the "Best Strand" thread, The Macology.com Team wrote:

      Quote

      **We created a very simple plug, everyone knows how, that simply
      made a new system next to Sol, where there was always an Azdgari warship
      and an Igazra warship.

      In the head on battle, (at least every time we watched), the Igazra decimated
      the Azdgari warship. Firstly, it took out all the fighters, almost 1 per pass,
      and was only down to around 65% to 75% shields, depending.**

      I was very surprised to read this, because it is directly contrary to my own
      observations with 1.02. In most the AI Igazra vs AI Azdgari Warship battles
      that I have witnessed, the battle has been quite lopsided in favor of the
      Azdgari, with very few (if any) Azdaras lost, and almost never any damage to
      the Azdgari Warship itself.

      I assume we're both talking about 1.02, and that neither of us is using
      any plugs that alters the stats of the ships in question.

      So.. what could explain our different experiences? Is there some other
      variable that would effect the AI's performance, so that different players
      would see differ AI-vs-AI results?

      Yes. I just figured it out: THE OBSERVING PILOT'S COMBAT RATING. I recall
      something about this in the 1.02 readme... the AI's aggressiveness is a
      function of the player pilot's combat rating.

      When I start a new pilot, my shuttle can fight off a renegrade Krait. Why?
      Because that Krait pilot is lazy. He punches me up in his computer and
      sees that I'm "harmless" so he doesn't worry very much. But when I'm
      Ultimate, he fights as hard as he can. (Not that it does him any good, since
      Ultimate-rated pilots tend to fly much better ships than shuttles.)

      The combat rating of the player doesn't just effect how the AI fights
      against the player, though. It effects how the AI fights in_general.
      That includes Azdaras attacking an AI-piloted Igazra.

      I hypothesize that Macology.com Team did their Igadzra-vs-Azdgari Warship
      tests using a new or low-rated pilot. Macology, do your tests with an
      Ultimate pilot and I think you will see the battle go the other way.

      Assuming I'm right, then, the conclusion is that the Igadzra are superior
      near the beginning of the game. And then the Azdara pilots get ahold of
      some UE-vs-Voinian war footage, and it shows one particular budding and
      promising new human pilot who fights like a demon. They watch this
      human pilot and learn his techniques, thereby gaining an edge over the
      Igadzra.

      ...Which just goes to show how intelligent and adaptive the Azdgari are. 🙂

      ------------------
      Have a Sloppy day!

    • This doesn't seem to show anything, in normal AI battles there is very rarely a battle involving jsut 1 Azdgari Warship and One Igazra. There is usually a couple of fighters or Aradas about that have a nimpact on the fight. The rating of your pilot also wouldn't have an effect because presumaly both ships would be fighting each other with the same amount of aggression if you statements are true.

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      (url="http://"http://celticstarbase.tsx.org")http://celticstarbase.tsx.org(/url)
      (url="http://"mailto:celticstarbase@esatclear.ie")mailto:celticstarbase@esatclear.ie(/url)celticstarbase@esatclear.ie

    • Quote

      Originally posted by CelticStarbase:
      **This doesn't seem to show anything, in normal AI battles there is very rarely a battle involving jsut 1 Azdgari Warship and One Igazra. There is usually a couple of fighters or Aradas about that have a nimpact on the fight. The rating of your pilot also wouldn't have an effect because presumaly both ships would be fighting each other with the same amount of aggression if you statements are true.
      **

      Yes, both sides would have the same amount of aggressiveness, but I think
      that aggressiveness has wildly different effects on the overall
      performance of large ships vs small ships. (i.e. The difference between
      a poorly-piloted Azdara and a well-piloted Azdara is much greater than the
      difference between a poorly-piloted Igazra and a well-piloted Igazra).

      ------------------
      Have a Sloppy day!

    • I don't know or care what anyone else claims to be true, but I can tell you from my own experience that I have seen several battles with an Azdgari Warship fighitng an Igazra in 1.0.2. The Azdgari warship wins every time, with 60% or even 70% left. Its not even close.

      The Igazra might have more destructive capability than the Azd Warship, but the Azd Warship has its number in a one-on-one fight.

      Its also interesting to note that the Zidara can take an Igazra down to 40%+ shields before dying in AI v. AI.

      These are simply the facts. Interpret them how you will.

      ------------------

      (This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 08-24-2000).)

    • Quote

      Originally posted by Sloppy:
      **In the "Best Strand" thread, The Macology.com Team wrote:

      I was very surprised to read this, because it is directly contrary to my own
      observations with 1.02. In most the AI Igazra vs AI Azdgari Warship battles
      that I have witnessed, the battle has been quite lopsided in favor of the
      Azdgari, with very few (if any) Azdaras lost, and almost never any damage to
      the Azdgari Warship itself.

      I assume we're both talking about 1.02, and that neither of us is using
      any plugs that alters the stats of the ships in question.

      So.. what could explain our different experiences? Is there some other
      variable that would effect the AI's performance, so that different players
      would see differ AI-vs-AI results?

      Yes. I just figured it out: THE OBSERVING PILOT'S COMBAT RATING. I recall
      something about this in the 1.02 readme... the AI's aggressiveness is a
      function of the player pilot's combat rating.

      When I start a new pilot, my shuttle can fight off a renegrade Krait. Why?
      Because that Krait pilot is lazy. He punches me up in his computer and
      sees that I'm "harmless" so he doesn't worry very much. But when I'm
      Ultimate, he fights as hard as he can. (Not that it does him any good, since
      Ultimate-rated pilots tend to fly much better ships than shuttles.)

      The combat rating of the player doesn't just effect how the AI fights
      against the player, though. It effects how the AI fights in_general.
      That includes Azdaras attacking an AI-piloted Igazra.

      I hypothesize that Macology.com Team did their Igadzra-vs-Azdgari Warship
      tests using a new or low-rated pilot. Macology, do your tests with an
      Ultimate pilot and I think you will see the battle go the other way.

      Assuming I'm right, then, the conclusion is that the Igadzra are superior
      near the beginning of the game. And then the Azdara pilots get ahold of
      some UE-vs-Voinian war footage, and it shows one particular budding and
      promising new human pilot who fights like a demon. They watch this
      human pilot and learn his techniques, thereby gaining an edge over the
      Igadzra.

      ...Which just goes to show how intelligent and adaptive the Azdgari are. 🙂

      **

      Sloppy,

      We did do this with a new pilot file, and you may have a very good point. We will run a test with an ultimate pilot file, and re-do the results.

      On another note however, CelticStarBase, the point of our plug was to create a situation where it was just ship on ship, to compare them without interference.

      ------------------
      The Macology.com Team
      Macology - The study of all things Macintosh

    • I can't wait to hear the results!! In 1.0.1., The Iggies ALWAYS WON!!! Even against both Ziddies and Azzies!! But now, in 1.0.2., it's all even, each side has it's fair share of wins...

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      Very funny, now beam down my clothes. These ladies look rest-less..... uh-oh...

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      "Vionions?? Voinioniommoins?? Viks? Veggies? Vegetables? Oh wait, that's a hewman plant...

    • Sloppy,
      I have to agree totally with your observations. It seems to me that the Igazra get whupped every time in any one on one battle with the azdgari...and yes it does appear to develop later in the game as my combat rating improves.
      Cheers

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      rřß
      Who cares not whether he is considered a newbie.

    • It's something to do with the fighters. Matt's said in the past that fighters became much more dangerous than in the previous versions. (Unless of course they're on your side, in which case they die a quick and sudden death :-|)

      —Tim

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      —= Timinator =—

      “I can imagine a world without war, without hate. I can also imagine us attacking that world because they wouldn't expect it.”

    • Sloppy, your theory is very interesting.... and I think the guy directly above me has an important point. The fighters are tougher in 1.02. However, most of the time that I witness an Igadzra vs Aggy Warship, I see the Iggie go home alive......

      The only time that I see the Aggy Warship win is when they start RIGHT on top of each other. But, whenever there's some distance, the Iggy has time to kill all the Azdaras and then kill the Warship....

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      "Are you sure this is a good idea, Boss?"
      "Of course not, don't ask stupid questions"
      "Sorry"

      -- Loiosh & Vlad --

    • HA!! EVERY RABBITING TIME I SEE AN AGGY WARSHIP VS. AN IGAZRA THJE AGGYS ALWAYS WIN, NO MATTER WHAT!!

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      "what is life but a prelude to death?"-me
      New Windows version 98, now with 400% more bugs and error messages than windows 95
      (just $199.99)
      and doesnt it make you feel better, the pigs have won tonight. They can all sleep soundly now, and everything is all right

      Rabbit it all, rabbit this world, rabbit everything that you stand for, dont belong, dont accept, dont give a cow, dont ever judge me

    • I think it also might have something to do with the speed you have the game set to. At slower speeds, slower fireing weapons (SAD's, most kinds of missles) do not fire. Since the Iggy's main strength is it's SAE's, having the SAE's not fire or fire very slowly would put it at a disadvantage.

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      Where are we going, and what's with this handbasket?

    • How about weapons range? Is there any difference between the range of the Phase Cannons on the Igazra and the Azadgari Warship?

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      ""La, la, la. Yo! I wanna take some sociology classes! Lying, degredation, and affection in a social environment seem so freaking odd, and totally cool! I @#%$ING WANNA KNOW!!!" -Scuzzy