Not that this is meant to answer everything, but keep one thing in mind: all these systems that males are supposedly superior at have been designed by males, for males. From fighter planes to video games.

Secondly, forget all the pop psychology that claims men are more left-brained, while women are more right-brained, or any other variation on this theme. Take a good look at the culture you're raised in and tell me what expectations of behavior have been placed on boys & girls.

"Oh, math is hard!"
--Barbie.

'Nuff said.

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Xopher

"I dreamt I was a butterfly, but when I awoke, I thought I might actually be a butterfly, dreaming that I was a man."
-- Chuang-tze (330 BCE)

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Xopher wrote:
**Secondly, forget all the pop psychology that claims men are more left-brained, while women are more right-brained, or any other variation on this theme. Take a good look at the culture you're raised in and tell me what expectations of behavior have been placed on boys & girls.
**

Oh bull-****. This isn't pop psychology; it's cold hard sience. Men have differently structured brains. You can tell just from pictures; certain lobes take up more space while others don't. Men have more testosterone; it makes them more aggressive. Women have more estrogen; it makes them more caring, social, and patient. That really pisses me off when take this "all people are made equal" crap to the extreme and call any science that disagrees stupid or crazy. People should be given equal rights regardless, but if you actually believe that when a person is born, they are equal and them not getting ahead is merely the society they grew up in, was obviously born with something in them not quite up to par. That's not to say the enviroment you grow up in doesn't effect it at all, but genetics and sex (type ) plays a large role.

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-Shade

"Cannibals are people to."

(url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")The Onion, America's finest news source(/url)

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Xopher wrote:
**Take a good look at the culture you're raised in and tell me what expectations of behavior have been placed on boys & girls.

"Oh, math is hard!"
--Barbie.

'Nuff said.
**

And hell, if you want to go at it that way, it's still stupid. Boys are more often considered dumb than girls are considered ditzes. The Barbie quote is from just that, a exagerated ditz. Most people say girls are usually smarter: blonde bimbos are a subset of girls. They are not a stereotype of girls in general. However what is the modern stereotype of boys today? punk. So cut this rightenous ****.

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-Shade

"Cannibals are people to."

(url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")The Onion, America's finest news source(/url)

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ShadeOfBlue wrote:
**And hell, if you want to go at it that way, it's still stupid. Boys are more often considered dumb than girls are considered ditzes. The Barbie quote is from just that, a exagerated ditz. Most people say girls are usually smarter: blonde bimbos are a subset of girls. They are not a stereotype of girls in general. However what is the modern stereotype of boys today? punk. So cut this rightenous ****.
**

Awwww, life is so damn hard for us guys right now isn't it? What with most people thinking we're punks 'n' everything. Oh well, guess we'll just have to make do with being paid more money to do the same job, filling most positions of power and responsibility etc etc

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(This message has been edited by Alan (edited 03-23-2000).)

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mikee J wrote:
**You don't think testerone has any effect on male aggressiveness?

**

I think it does. My friends (some guys, some gals) have all tried EVO (all with the inevitable question "When's this coming out for PC?" "Never." "Why?" "Windows has no resource forks." "So?" "The CEO of Ambrosia dosen't want to get people to rewrite this in C/C++." "Why?" "I don't know." Et cetera, ad infinitum.). I noticed the guys were more likley to start blasting Voinians in thier Shuttles (and getting killed), whereas the girls were more likely to do a bunch of cargo missions and avoid Renegades and Voinians. I'm sorry, but there's no way a single Shuttle can take out a Krait, much less a Voinian Interceptor.

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=/= Jim Stephens =/=
(url="http://"mailto:stryker@hotline.com")mailto:stryker@hotline.com(/url)stryker@hotline.com

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Shade of Blue wrote:
it's cold hard sience (sic). Men have differently structured brains. You can tell just from pictures; certain lobes take up more space while others don't. Men have more testosterone; it makes them more aggressive. Women have more estrogen; it makes them more caring, social, and patient.

Wow, I had no idea that biology was destiny. As a comparative evolutionary biologist specializing in insects I won't presume to argue the scientific merits of the human brain with you; but I think you missed my point.

For all the limitations that we individuals have, whether biological or socioeconomic, we aspire to rise above them. And we should allow others to do so as well -- to the best of his or her own individual ability.

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Xopher

"I dreamt I was a butterfly, but when I awoke, I thought I might actually be a butterfly, dreaming that I was a man."
-- Chuang-tze (330 BCE)

(This message has been edited by Xopher (edited 03-23-2000).)

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Xopher wrote:
**Wow, I had no idea that biology was destiny. As a comparative evolutionary biologist specializing in insects I won't presume to argue the scientific merits of the _ human_ brain with you; but I think you missed my point.

For all the limitations that we individuals have, whether biological or socioeconomic, we aspire to rise above them. And we should allow others to do so as well -- to the best of his or her own individual ability.
**

You also missed my point. My point was that some people are better than others and there's often nothing a less-able person can do about it. But I went on to say that the stereotype (don't like the word - implies stubborn idea not caring for facts) is not uncommonly broken (ex: some women are as good as the better guys) and that there's no excuse for not trying because no matter how able a person is they can be lazy and less succseful than a more determined person. I also made clear that I thought people should be given equal rights and oppurtunities no matter what their abilities.

I note you've changed your tone; before you just dismissed this "pop psychology" completely and said it was because girls were expected to be not as good, now you're saying we should aspire to rise above the expected limitations.

Also seeing as you are fairly new here, I didn't mean to offend you the first time I've replied to your message. I'm not normally like this; I just got kinda pissed-off. Heh, stupid testosterone. :rolleyes:

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-Shade

"Cannibals are people to."

(url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")The Onion, America's finest news source(/url)

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ShadeOfBlue wrote:
I note you've changed your tone; before you just dismissed this "pop psychology" completely and said it was because girls were expected to be not as good, now you're saying we should aspire to rise above the expected limitations.

Also seeing as you are fairly new here, I didn't mean to offend you the first time I've replied to your message. I'm not normally like this; I just got kinda pissed-off. Heh, stupid testosterone. :rolleyes:
(/B)

I oversimplified the 'pop' thing 'cuz way too many people use science to perpetuate stereotypes. I can't find anything to complain about in your last post --we seem to be saying the same thing in different ways-- though I'd like society to make its changes a little faster.

As for being new, well, I've been posting to EVO since about October of '98. You can actually see some of my old posts on Blazer's EVO site, since Jim just put up an old page for nostalgia's sake. I took a break for a few months & when I came back the whole board had shifted (old news for most of you, but a shock to me!). I only just got around to registering on this new one.

I miss some of the old names, but it's nice to see a lot of new handles on the EV/O board. This game still rules.

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Xopher

"I dreamt I was a butterfly, but when I awoke, I thought I might actually be a butterfly, dreaming that I was a man."
-- Chuang-tze (330 BCE)

Actually yeah, now that I think about it, I think I do remember seeing you post on the old boards.

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-Shade

"Cannibals are people to."

(url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")The Onion, America's finest news source(/url)