Hey-Matar is no longer a Confed system,it is a HumCon system.
Everything will be different.

The pirates are moving way too fast-there's no way you guys can take Sol without a lot better tech or several hundred more warships.

Macavanger,when does the Empire move?
We should have RC,or whoever's controlling his fleet,move to Apollo to provide backup for your fleet.
Two fleets are better than one,you know...

BTW:We need to work out FTL travel in BFS II.
I've been using my "Jump point" technology,modelled after Larry Niven's "Alderson Drive"(the Mote In God's Eye)
Someone was using "hyperjump" and someone else once used "warp".
We need a common drive mechanism and terminology.

------------------
Long live the Alien Emperor,may he rule for a million years! -Third Star Fleet Commander Shade,following the Battle of NGC-0538

Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
**Macavenger, first I never attacked Rigel. I attacked Matar. And from my years of playing EV I know that it generally has very little defense so the statistics from my battle would add up correctly. Most of the times that I have jumped into Matar it had at most a fighter or 2 to defend it. On a few occasions it had a cruiser. Thus my reasoning of its defense capabilities.
**

You've got too account for it's defense fleet when you dominate it as well. I see that it was Matar, but my point stands. I see you edited your post, but I had to moderate a bit more, so look at my post at the thread. (I edited the first one with my list of points so as not to clog the thread.)

Also, don't forget to give the HC a chance to return fire, with someone other than General Rak.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
The pirates are moving way too fast-there's no way you guys can take Sol without a lot better tech or several hundred more warships.

Correct, I'm trying to slow them down, they are getting out of control.

Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
Macavanger,when does the Empire move?
We should have RC,or whoever's controlling his fleet,move to Apollo to provide backup for your fleet.
Two fleets are better than one,you know...

Check your e-mail. Also see the post I made with an encrypted message, not that you'll be able to read it... at least, not without checking your mail.
I'm controlling RC's fleet for now, because I've heard nothing from him.

Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
BTW:We need to work out FTL travel in BFS II.
I've been using my "Jump point" technology,modelled after Larry Niven's "Alderson Drive"(the Mote In God's Eye)
Someone was using "hyperjump" and someone else once used "warp".
We need a common drive mechanism and terminology.

I don't think that this is all that important, we all understand that we are using the same technology, roughly, so it's immaterial.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

Originally Posted by Macavenger:
ErsadtSF, I'm going to void your previous post. You can't use defensive guns on a planet's surface, and you can't attack the planet until you've gotten through any fleet(s) present (in this case, mine) and its defensive fleet. Please edit out your post. You'll have to try again if you want to attack Apollo. if you wish to protest, do so on the discussion board.

A. I dont recall any rules against planetary defence guns. If there are, we should post all these rules (like one-post battles) in this topic to avoid any more surprises.

B. Your fleet was in the system, it just wasnt guarding the planet. In addition, you never sent a fleet to serve as Apollo's defences, so only your fleet was there.

------------------
Ill put it this way - I dont write novels.

Originally posted by Shade:
Hey-Matar is no longer a Confed system,it is a HumCon system.
Everything will be different.

No. There needs to be some consistency to what we know about EV.

The pirates are moving way too fast-there's no way you guys can take Sol without a lot better tech or several hundred more warships.

Check my post, Shade. I did not take Sol. I was being sarcastic to make your same point about Crusader taking Saden.

(Geez! I finally figured out the slash preceeds the "b" for "end bold." Watch out everybody! That KK really knows his stuff.)

- KK

------------------
“You will find that we will be either the most loyal and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!!!”

(This message has been edited by Kaptain Karl (edited 08-06-2001).)

You've all made this so confusing, I don't know what to post next.

Mac- As for ship icons, they got deleted along with the map when I accidentally trashed them in psd format along with the Infini-D files. :frown:

You guys all stop posting for now. We need your fleet location, who owns what planets etc...We're getting behind here, and rapid posts don't help much.

------------------
-Cap'n Skyblade
-Battle for Sol - Episode II: The Unfinished War-
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/TheUnfinishedWarMap.jpg")Map(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationWeapons.html")Human Confederation Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateWeapons.html")Pirate Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienWeapons.html")Alien Weapons(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationShipyard.html")Human Confederacy Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateShipyard.html")Pirate Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienShipyard.html")Alien Empire Shipyard(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by ErsadtSF:
**A. I dont recall any rules against planetary defence guns. If there are, we should post all these rules (like one-post battles) in this topic to avoid any more surprises.

B. Your fleet was in the system, it just wasnt guarding the planet. In addition, you never sent a fleet to serve as Apollo's defences, so only your fleet was there. **

A. Maybe when you consider that no one else has been using them, and no rule allows you to, this will become apparent.
B. Who are you to say that my fleet isn't guarding the planet? Fleets in a system are automatically assumed to be guarding, what reason would they have for not doing so? As for your assertion that I never sent a fleet to serve as defence, Well, in that case, you never sent a fleet to defend Vulcan, or any other HC world for that matter, so I guess I'll just start jumping around and taking them all for free. In other words, don't go there, it's assumed a defense fleet arrives after a reasonable amount of time. If you look at my post where I attacked Apollo, I didn't try any of your weird ideas. I eliminate all opposition first, then attack the planet. Once you get rid of all opposition, the planet becomes yours basically automatically.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

UE Crusader, you take Saden with only the loss of a handfull of ships? C'mon!!!
(I'm not saying you did not capture the system, but we pirates have been told by the Mods that HC ships are not really that much better than ours. Then you have an easy time taking Saden, the "crown jewel" of the pirate empire?)

Well, you gotta consider it from my point of view, which is that the only Pirate vessels which really stack up well against HC warships are the Kestrel and SuperKestrel. I was very generous for the Pirate defense force, giving them a dozen Super kestrels. But you have to bear in mind that even the SuperKestrel is only just on par with the standard Rebel or Confed Cruiser, which 4 fighters & shielding close to that of the Reb Cruiser. When you consider the introduction of the Heavy Cruiser, the number of "normal" HC Cruisers there, and the 7 SuperCruisers and 2 HC Carriers on my side, I thought I was actually being a bit generous. The SuperCruiser has 3 times the shielding of even the Super kestrel, and I won't even get into the carriers. Yes I only lost a few ships, but most of them were warships; I even took off a SuperCruiser. And I did take off a few dozen fighters overall.

overall, I thought it was realistic more or less, especially given that a good portion of the Pirate vessels would inevitably be ships like argosies, Corvettes, or ships of a weaker class, which quite frankly don't hold up well against any but the weaker HC vessels.

All that being said I do not wish to start up a big argument over this, so I will add some extra losses to my stats upon doing my next post. On the whole though, I figured I was actually being a bit generous to the Pirates thus far.

UEC

------------------

Actually, the pirates tend to be using a lot of the X-Rapiers recently, which are ~damn~ effective against capital ships. I don't think you'd lose a Carrier, but significantly steeper than what you're at right now. You only took off 30 Fighters total, you'd probably lose closer to half or more of those, along with more capital ships.

============

- Official Announcement -

Captain Skyblade and I have decided to promote General Rak to Thread Moderator.
General Rak has a good knowledge of the rules and has been quite fair in criticism in most cases, even of his teammates. With Skyblade now doing school work and the map falling to me, we need another hand to pick up the slack in moderation, and General Rak is it.
Note that we do have a hierarchy of moderation of sorts, so we can still overrule each other to an extent, so if you don't like Rak's calls, you can whine at me, and vice versa, and we'll work something out or call Captain Skyblade in or something.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Additionally, I've made another decision, which will stand unless Captain Skyblade overrules me. The map should be back up within an hour and a half (I hope), and so, for the purposes of simplicity there, I'd like to ask that there be no more division of fleets across multiple systems. Also, to keep the pirates under control, let's say no capturing more than one system per fleet per post. (Thus, if a president chooses to directly control someone else's fleet for a post, he can take one system with each fleet.)

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

OK, another announcement, the Map is back! Yes folks, I finally got the map updated and uploaded. No fleets yet (tomorrow, I promise), but the political stuff is accurate (Note: I still have Saden marked as Pirate, because I don't like UE Crusader's loss figures yet).

It doesn'y look quite as good as Skyblade's version, because of all the editing I had to do by hand, so to speak, but you won't notice most of the bad spots unless you look. No whining, I don't have Skyblade's software or skills for this type of thing.

Also, since it is now current, I'm going to allow exploration again. Enjoy, grunadulater.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

Actually, the pirates tend to be using a lot of the X-Rapiers recently, which are ~damn~ effective against capital ships.

Begging your pardon, but as good and cost-effective as X-Rapiers are, I fail to see how they are too much more efficient than the Corvette is, save in the speed area. The 5 proton canns are a definite plus I'll grant you and that does make them a bit better than the Vette, but the shielding is still rather weak. The X-Rapier is good, but I don't buy the assertion that they can take on any capital ship toe-to-toe.

UEC

------------------

UE Crusader is right.
The X-Rapier is still little more than a glorified heavy fighter,it'd have a hard time taking down anything larger than a Destroyer M5.
And,of course,against the Empire it stands no chance
For we are the Empire!We are invincible!

------------------
Long live the Alien Emperor,may he rule for a million years! -Third Star Fleet Commander Shade,following the Battle of NGC-0538

Quote

Originally posted by UE Crusader:
**Begging your pardon, but as good and cost-effective as X-Rapiers are, I fail to see how they are too much more efficient than the Corvette is, save in the speed area. The 5 proton canns are a definite plus I'll grant you and that does make them a bit better than the Vette, but the shielding is still rather weak. The X-Rapier is good, but I don't buy the assertion that they can take on any capital ship toe-to-toe.

UEC

**

Ever hear of massive amounts of torpedoes, and heavy rockets. In packs (Saden should have many) they are deadly to capital ships. In addition, your only way of defeating them is up close (no chance) or with fighters. Fighters are slaughtered by corvettes. Corvettes are difficult to kill. Point made.

------------------
Prepare to succumb to
superior intelligence

Quote

Originally posted by Shade:
**The dozen Mantas launched as,far away,the Aliens launched their fighters.
The opposing sides sped towards each other,with seeker drones launching from the Alien fighters,missiles from the Mantas.
**

You should at least lose 1 fighter, it is only fair (let's say they all shot at one fighter, and finished him off with laser fire.)

------------------
Prepare to succumb to
superior intelligence

can you sell ships for half price?

------------------
I bet there darn tasty to.

Quote

Originally posted by grunadulater:
**can you sell ships for half price?

**

Captain Skyblade should once and for all answer this, as it has been asked before, but I say a tentative no. It makes it more challenging to keep up with fleet stats if you can. On the otherhand, you can do it in real EV. But Skyblade really needs to answer this question. Hold off until then.

------------------
Prepare to succumb to
superior intelligence

As you can see, KK is out of BFS II.

It was a valiant effort, Skyblade, but BFS II became what I feared it would (chaos) faster than I feared.

The rules are not comprehensive enough. (If they were, nobody would bother reading the four pages of rules. Nobody would play.)

The Mods and Map cannot keep up with all the variables coming at them -- from some pretty creative ideas of the players.

The Pirates are throttled down by the Mods for doing only what their lesser powered, lesser sheilded, but faster ships allow -- striking quickly.

The Aliens are having to invent themselves as they try to play. Really tough to do!

The HC players seem to expect that just because they ARE the HC, their victory is a "given".

Specifics:

Naturally, we each want "glory," but it has gotten ... absurd. (My brief post, KK takes over the whole galaxy, was an attempt to point out how crazy it had all become. Kudos to you all for not over-reacting to that post.)

There also seems to be an "AI / Interactive" dilemma being demonstrated: ("If I can dominate a planet with my single ship in EV, this huge fleet makes me invincible!" must be lingering in the minds of each of us.)

I cannot criticize the Aliens. I have not studied their ships and technology enough to do so....

UE Crusader doesn't fight fair against enemy fleets -- in terms of damage to his own fleet. (I wonder if he's fought so many AI battles, that he assumes his opponents would fight as stupidly as the AI?)

General Rak fights quite fairly -- I mean that -- but he does not travel fair. In less than 45 minutes "thread time," he covered two-thirds of the galaxy!?? And he is rewarded for this by being promoted to Mod. (Which, BTW Rak, I bet that within 2 days you will see it as "punishment". Hee-hee!)

Pirates: We must admit we each gave ourselves pretty light losses in taking the planets we captured. (See "AI / Interactive dilemma," above.)

As I previously posted, Skyblade, you really got me JAZZED for EVN with this BFS II game. Thank you!!! "If" EVN ever is released, the above absurdities will be constrained.

- KK

------------------
“You will find that we will be either the most loyal and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... don’t bring a knife to a gunfight!!!”

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
As you can see, KK is out of BFS II.

Sorry to see you go, you maintained a very high post quality

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
It was a valiant effort, Skyblade, but BFS II became what I feared it would (chaos) faster than I feared.

Well, the only "real" way to stop chaos is to have a mod who isn't playing (and can dedicate time to it)

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
The rules are not comprehensive enough. (If they were, nobody would bother reading the four pages of rules. Nobody would play.)

Very true

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
The Mods and Map cannot keep up with all the variables coming at them -- from some pretty creative ideas of the players.

That is human nature, abstract thought

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
The Pirates are throttled down by the Mods for doing only what their lesser powered, lesser sheilded, but faster ships allow -- striking quickly.

You must admit they allowed almost no time for the HC to respond

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
The Aliens are having to invent themselves as they try to play. Really tough to do!

Yes, as we, unfortunately, know nothing of them from the game

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
The HC players seem to expect that just because they ARE the HC, their victory is a "given".

How has that manifested itself?

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
Naturally, we each want "glory," but it has gotten ... absurd. (My brief post, KK takes over the whole galaxy, was an attempt to point out how crazy it had all become. Kudos to you all for not over-reacting to that post.)

Yes, way too much domination

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
There also seems to be an "AI / Interactive" dilemma being demonstrated: ("If I can dominate a planet with my single ship in EV, this huge fleet makes me invincible!" must be lingering in the minds of each of us.)

Because we are basing this off EV, and that's how it is in EV

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
I cannot criticize the Aliens. I have not studied their ships and technology enough to do so....

Macavenger was quite fair, much more than I or anyone else

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
UE Crusader doesn't fight fair against enemy fleets -- in terms of damage to his own fleet. (I wonder if he's fought so many AI battles, that he assumes his opponents would fight as stupidly as the AI?)

I think he is angry for not being able to control the pirates, or wants to have an easy battle

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
General Rak fights quite fairly -- I mean that -- but he does not travel fair. In less than 45 minutes "thread time," he covered two-thirds of the galaxy!?? And he is rewarded for this by being promoted to Mod. (Which, BTW Rak, I bet that within 2 days you will see it as "punishment". Hee-hee!)

Thanks for the compliment. And I traveled so fast because every half an hour the pirates took another world. I was reacting to them. I, unfortunately, have a feeling the thread will end very soon because of all the unstable structure

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
Pirates: We must admit we each gave ourselves pretty light losses in taking the planets we captured. (See "AI / Interactive dilemma," above.)

Finally, a pirate admits wrong doing. KK really does have some integrity.

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
As I previously posted, Skyblade, you really got me JAZZED for EVN with this BFS II game. Thank you!!! "If" EVN ever is released, the above absurdities will be constrained.

EVN will be a lot of fun

------------------
Prepare to succumb to
superior intelligence

(This message has been edited by General Rak (edited 08-07-2001).)

Quote

UE Crusader doesn't fight fair against enemy fleets -- in terms of damage to his own fleet. (I wonder if he's fought so many AI battles, that he assumes his opponents would fight as stupidly as the AI?)

sigh

I said before that I would give myself additional losses until you guys were satisfied. Is that not enough?

Give me a break, I'm new at this.

------------------

(This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 08-07-2001).)