I have noticed a rather distressing lack of in-depth tutorial or documentation to accompany Coldstone, and have been trying to think of ways to fix this. I do not have the time nor the drive to research it sufficiently enough to attempt to write any sort of definitive guide, but I would be willing to donate a few hours each week to work on gathering and organizing a cooperative "Coldstone Project" to organize a resource of tricks, tips, and tutorials. I would do this in three ways: 1) go through this webboard's backlog of posts to extract useful bits and pieces; 2) experiment on my own (time permitting); and 3) arrange a way to get submissions from all of you other Coldstone users who are so much wiser in its ways (again time permitting). For this project I would mostly only be able to play the role of editor and organizer, since my own expertise is limited at best.

What I need to know is if there is significant enough interest for me to start this project, or if it would be a waste of my time. I am also interested in hearing from anyone who would be able to help out; I am as of yet a very amateur web-designer (work with html, and am learning JavaScript in my spare time) so if I was alone in the initial programming of the home of this it would take a little while to be released and fully functional. Other ideas are also very welcome.

So anyway; what do you people think? Is this worth going ahead with, or are these message boards sufficient?

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"The tongue in the cheek is harder to bite."
(url="http://"http://www.beckism.com")http://www.beckism.com(/url)

Now THAT's a really good idea... it would be great to have something like this... 'cause how Coldstone work is not that hard to figure out... what's really missing in the doc is all those little things that sure look obvious to the people who made Coldstone but which can take a lot of time for common users like us to "catch"... And all those little things are in this webboard I think since it s here just for that purpose
However, though I d really like to help, I m a very beginner with Coldstone, and have very little time too... (my own project on Coldstone, plus my studies, plus the every day life like seeing friends in order to not lose them, that sort of thing....) Anyway, as far as my time and experience would allow it, i d be glad to spare the little knowledge I have about Coldstone... that would be more about little tricks or tips than real knowledge in fact...
but I think that if many people could do the same, even sharing only a bit of time, the final project could be quite interesting

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God is real... unless declared integer...
Watashi wa Iori Yagami no gakuse-desu

Before you go too far, you might want to take a look at the (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/straytoaster/")Coldstone-dev Resource(/url) page. No use in reinventing the wheel.

Also, I'm not sure all of what Straytoaster has done, but I know he was talking about making a Coldstone tutorial or guide. You might contact him to see if he has done anything on it and, if so, if he'd like some help. I'm sure that if it is in progress he'd appreciate help.

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(url="http://"http://stark.evula.net")Stark.evula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.net")EVula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://mail.ambrosiasw.com/mailman/listinfo/coldstone_dev")Coldstone-dev mailing list(/url) | (url="http://"http://ucplugs.evula.net/pog.html")PoG Upcoming Plug-Ins Directory(/url)

especially spell-checking help, right Strak?

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Just pimpin' my (url="http://"http://www.thejbfc.com")fishing skills(/url),(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dampeoples/damcam.html")damcam(/url), and (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dampeoples/Sterling/Menu19.html")stuff(/url)

(This message has been edited by dampeoples (edited 01-27-2003).)

I like the idea - I think a expanded manual made by the users would be great. Especially if it pointed out current bugs/limitations, and went in to further detail about some of the basics. As well as what free programs are good for creating files that Coldstone plays nice with. Straytoaster's site is a great - but I think that what we really need is a more detailed manual that we can download. Some people aren't lucky enough to be connected to the internet all the time...or, if you are like me, are easily distracted as soon as you fire up a browser (hmm, I wonder what's new at fark.com, etc).

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to chip some stuff in.

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(url="http://"http://www.thoughtslop.org")thought|slop(/url)

Excellent! I was hoping that someone else had already started this type of project (half the reason I posted it). However, I still think that there are things that could be done to make it even better.

I went and had a quick look through of the Coldstone-dev page and its tips/FAQ page as well, and I agree with sanko that what is needed most is a version that is indexed, cross-referenced, and preferably off-line. Now, I'm just throwing ideas around right now, but after a quick perusal of Apple's developers website it looks like their Apple Guide system is based off HTML. If this is true (and assuming there isn't a whole heck-of-a-lot of programming between off-line website and help guide), then I could begin to compile a resource with Straytoaster and other's help.

If anyone has any idea how Apple guides are developed, I'd appreciate hearing it so I know if I should look into this. I haven't contacted Straytoaster yet, so this all might come to nought, but I still really like the idea. PDF is also another file type that is a possibility, but I personally don't have access to Adobe Acrobat, so I don't know if that would work quite as well.

And I would definately be able to help with editing, if that is what is needed.

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"The tongue in the cheek is harder to bite."
(url="http://"http://www.beckism.com")http://www.beckism.com(/url)

After further investigation, it appears that the only version of the Apple Help system that is based off html is the OS X one. This would obviously be a problem for anyone who doesn't have OS X, although I could probably publish an online version as well. Any thoughts?

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"The tongue in the cheek is harder to bite."
(url="http://"http://www.beckism.com")http://www.beckism.com(/url)

Just keep it a .html archive and let people use their browsers. I, personally, prefer that method over a .pdf.

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(url="http://"http://www.thoughtslop.org")thought|slop(/url)

I am learning a little java (I only started a few days ago, though). I could see if I could make a standalone app. to do it. However, until I've learned a bit more, I'd go with the HTML idea.

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CI-I@()s
(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/cha0s/")The Homepage of Cha0s(/url)

Beckist, in OSX, there is a nifty little option in the print dialogue, under the 'Output Options' tab. Check the box, and select 'Print to PDF'. When you hit print, you can then save the file as a PDF instead of sending it to your printer, thus circumventing the need for Acrobat for easy pdf creation in OSX. Therefore, you can code your page/s in HTML and simply print them to PDF (well, if it's just one page ).

If you wish to make a more cross indexed pdf file, still code it as HTML. When it's done, I can convert it to a proper pdf file using Acrobat for you, and then email it back to you, upload it, or whatever.

-Andiyar

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"Any good that I may do here, let me do now, for I may not pass this way again"

Ah, this is excellent. I think I will go ahead with this project. Basically what I'm hearing is that html is enough, and I can do that. I'll probably end up going the pdf route eventually though, Tarnćlion Andiyarus, since I think that's probably the easiest way for most people to access it. I looked into the Apple Guide thing, and like I said above html is only in OS X, but I was able to convert my own site into a readable format (mostly) for the Apple Guide just after copying and manipulating some of the code in the headers of an existing guide I have on my computer. Not hard at all. However, pdf seems more universal, so I'd probably go with that. (I actually knew about the print thing, and you can do muliple pages at least with Appleworks, but the whole point of this project would be to index the stuff properly, so I really want cross-links).

I've contacted Straytoaster, and he said that he hasn't been working on a missing manual aside from the tips and stuff that is already part of his CGE dev site. He's offered to help, though, so initially I'll probably make use of the stuff that he has already compiled as well as these message boards. After I've exhausted those resources, I will look into voluntary submissions through a webpage (to be set up later) and the CGE dev mailing list. Basically all I'm planning to do for this project is organize; my theory is that I don't know enough to really contribute much, but I'll index all the wonderful knowledge that you people have and then release it into the world like that for easier reference.

However, I anticipate this project taking a few months at the very least, since I'll only be able to devote so much time to it, and the initial release will probably not be the only one. I'll see what I can do about getting stuff online soon, though, if it goes well.

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. I'll be sure to come back to this board if I need additional help, but for now I think I'll somewhat dissappear and lay the groundwork for this.

Forgot something: the finished product will be posted online for those people who don't like pdf, and I'll make sure to have a downloadable html thing, too. I think that covers all the bases, right?

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"The tongue in the cheek is harder to bite."
(url="http://"http://www.beckism.com")http://www.beckism.com(/url)

(This message has been edited by Beckist Productions (edited 01-29-2003).)

The CGE Doc Project is now officially underway. For anyone following this thread, I am working under the screen name "George the Flea" (I'm not sure why I was previously using "Beckist Productions"; just the first thing I signed up as last year or whenever).

I have published the "under construction" version of the website for this project at (url="http://"http://cge.beckism.com")http://cge.beckism.com(/url) for anyone who wants to see what it will basically look like. When it's actually done I will post a new topic to officially announce it, but I decided to let it be known that it was online in case anyone wants to offer critiques/criticisms on the site itself. I don't expect to really get to work on the CGE Doc Project for another 2 to 2 1/2 weeks due to the time restraints in my life, so don't there probably won't be anything much to the project for at least that amount of time. Thanks ahead to anyone who has a suggestion for making this project even better.

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(url="http://"http://cge.beckism.com")The CGE Doc Project(/url): The people's documentation to Coldstone

(This message has been edited by George the Flea (edited 02-03-2003).)

Small problem with your HTML:

This link:
<a href="http://cge.beckism.com">
needs to be this link:
<a href="http://main.html" Target=main>

Otherwise, if you click the CGE Doc Project button on the NavBar, it reopens a whole new frameset in the navbar. The site looks pretty good, and I'm glad that someone has finally decided to do this project. Good luck!!

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CI-I@()s
(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/cha0s/")The Homepage of Cha0s(/url)

Thanks for the html error, ChaOs. Small wonder I forgot that one; it's the last link I wrote last night before going to bed.

I agree that it is high time that this type of thing was undertaken. However, as I haven't really done anything yet you'll have to reserve judgment on whether or not it works. Thanks again!

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(url="http://"http://cge.beckism.com")The CGE Doc Project(/url): The people's documentation to Coldstone