please, read....

Hey,

This thread is a shameless and blatant attempt to satisfy my curiosity. Basically, when I used to like mucking around with plugs n stuff, I had a few ideas that I really liked and started making plugs for all of them. As usual they fell apart at various stages and are now sitting on my hardrive (we've all been there i think?).

But what I wanted to do was find out which would be the most wanted if I ever got round to finishing one. The chances of me ever doing so is practically nil so it's more academic than anything, and i'm interested to see what people will think of my ideas!

EV Discovery

My very first plugin idea. Yes, a TC (predictable, anyone?). But the difference with this that I liked was that instead of starting in a busy, populated universe the game actually starts off with humans at the dawn of their space exploration. Only earth and two other colonies were populated, surrounded by empty grey systems. The plan was to get the player to do astanaught/explorer type missions with similar tones to frozen heart- using subtle ideas rather than just blowing up space ships. Planets would slowly but surely be colonised, new systems unearthed (as human space technology got better) and the missions would be more of a storyline than just tasks.

Eventually the player would meet aliens etc which would drastically change the type of play, but the main jist of it was to give the player power and choice in decisions- should we colonise west, or north? do we want safe, green planets or risky industrial monsters? encourage democracy and growth on earth, or oppress the people with a regime? These choices would affect all sorts of stuff from which spobs/systs changed to the type of ships and missions availible. For example different colonies would allow for different kinds of weapons or ships available. Very complicated, but the simple nature of the universe would give time for this.

Completion: 20% (human space, 20 missions & graphics ((BRYCE IS AMAZING)) but no real progress)

EVO Galaxy Replacer

One of my favourites (and most recent). The basic idea was EVO: revamped. All the same govts, diplomacy, ships etc of EVO but completely new galaxy and a very twisted storyline. I really enjoyed this as it was a semi TC, with no work to do on ships etc giving me time to really concentrate on geography, storylines and missions.

I did loads of work on the systems, and the scale was HUGE- ue and renegade space combined (including uninhabited wastelands) were slightly bigger than the entire EVO universe. Each planet description was written with great care and detail, and then re-written once I'd developed storylines. I really enjoyed putting my own spin on the universe- on the surface UE are still the good crusaders fighting the voinians, but in reality they are a huge empire governed by a corrupt and despotic government (similar to the Rigellians in FH) using martial law and force to control their people, and plagued with internal power stuggles and politics.

The voinians are still warlike but not at all evil- mostly an industrious trading race, which the UE attacked in order to gain wealth and power. Stella Corp were a shady corporation with about 15 systs which added flavour- my idea was to have their own entire storyline which results in them taking over the UE government.

The renegades were composed of several factions and fought with eachother more than anyone else. I did this by making all spobs as a single renegade govt, and then made 3 seperate dudes in each system that were at war. So the idea was that the pirates fed more off each other than organised governments which I feel is a reflection of the real criminal world. They were controlled and manipulated by UE, mafia and other influences. I made some very good missions for these which were the most fun to play (and write).

I never got round to the crescent because there isn't much expansion on the story, i feel they have the most depth descriptions in the original EVO which makes them hard to change. I explained this by saying that human technology wasn't advanced enough to travel the wastes of space into the crescent.

Completion: 50% (all of UE & renegade space, half of voinian, 70 missions over 3 storylines)

Corruption

This plug I actually completed to a point, but never released. I took the Frozen Heart TC and deleted all missions, but kept everything else. In this plug the player joins up with the Rigellian empire. The missions were great fun to play, and the map was greatly altered at the end.

The story involved rising through the ranks of Rigellian power, starting off as a scivvy for Rigel's navy and eventually rising to be leader of the Secret Service (the monarch turns out to be nothing but a public icon which you control). Using a mixture of diplomacy, politics and war the Rigellian's expand their empire- first subverting independent states and building up to invading Magellan/democratic space.

The story is linear and the player assumes a real character- he speaks and interracts with other characters in the story. He gets more and more corrupt and evil, eventually indulging in drugs, debauchery and other evil things (one scene has him personally interrogating and torturing someone when he joins the SS). It is a journey of a character through which us, the player, only controls events from their ship- and watches our hero go from an idealistic pilot to a twisted and dark entity, influenced by his Rigellian masters.

Unfortunately, this never got released. Martin was not happy with me putting my influences into his galaxy- and I fully understand that, it wasn't made to be tampered with. However it was one of the most enjoyable and different plugs I have ever made and played- as far as I know, no one apart from myself has played it.

Completion: 100%

Countdown

Discovery is certainly an original spin on a TC, but I'm not convinced it's suited for EVN. Much as my creative sensibilities flinch at rambling, labyrinthine sci fi plot lines that involve blowing up aliens, I think they're best suited to the engine. Still, if you can make it work it would be a breath of fresh air.

The others: My, you've become jaded with the Universe, eh? Countdown strikes me as something that would just entail mounting frustration, more of a Dadaist response to conventional mods than a successful one of its own. I've never played FH so I can't comment on corruption.

You've no shortage of creativity, but as for playability, Galaxy Replacer looks the most promising. Then again, hasn't it been done before? Maybe a new TC is in your future? Don't stop writing, and maybe release alphas of some of those for further feedback. More developers are always good.

@pistgavin, on Jan 22 2008, 07:52 PM, said in Census:

EV Discovery

My very first plugin idea. Yes, a TC (predictable, anyone?). But the difference with this that I liked was that instead of starting in a busy, populated universe the game actually starts off with humans at the dawn of their space exploration. Only earth and two other colonies were populated, surrounded by empty grey systems. The plan was to get the player to do astanaught/explorer type missions with similar tones to frozen heart- using subtle ideas rather than just blowing up space ships. Planets would slowly but surely be colonised, new systems unearthed (as human space technology got better) and the missions would be more of a storyline than just tasks.

The basic idea reminds me of something years and years and years ago -- "Foundation", which had planetary colonization.

Of course, since it was made for EV, the engine was very limited as to what they could actually pull off, and it was buggy besides. It'd be nice to see it done the way it should be.

Quote

EVO Galaxy Replacer

One of my favourites (and most recent). The basic idea was EVO: revamped. All the same govts, diplomacy, ships etc of EVO but completely new galaxy and a very twisted storyline. I really enjoyed this as it was a semi TC, with no work to do on ships etc giving me time to really concentrate on geography, storylines and missions.

As I thought then, I think now -- it'd be a cool plugin.

Unfortunately, "Revenant" is also like a (greatly) revamped EVO, so it'd be possible that would cut into your motivation, or playerbase.

Quote

Corruption

This plug I actually completed to a point, but never released. I took the Frozen Heart TC and deleted all missions, but kept everything else. In this plug the player joins up with the Rigellian empire. The missions were great fun to play, and the map was greatly altered at the end.

I suspect Mr. Turner still wouldn't be happy about it now.

If he was indifferent, though, it probably wouldn't be too hard to release/port.

Quote

Countdown

Wow, you certainly have no lack of creative muscle! Not only that, but it's absolutely amazing that you've done that much plug-in-ing!

I think all of the ideas look wonderful. The first is easily the most original, and I like the idea of a fledgling empire exploring space, then taking a dramatic turn when they make first contact. I would caution you about the mind-boggling amount of work that goes into creating player choice mechanics, which increases exponentially as you add more avenues.

As Consul Bob said, Reverent seems very similar to the Galaxy Replacer, but hey, with the amount of change both seem to entail, they could certainly both be highly enjoyable.

Countdown sounds awesome in so many ways. Perhaps after the elimination of the UE (are we talking dismantling/occupying or genocide?), the player could decide which one he/she hates more out of the Voinians (for starting the war) and the Crescent (for preying on the carcass of humanity), and join the other one? Of course, Voinian vs. Crescent, the latter would get their asses kicked due to their lack of armor-damaging weaponry. Still though, lots of potential again.

@pistgavin, on Jan 22 2008, 05:52 PM, said in Census:

Hey,

This thread is a shameless and blatant attempt to satisfy my curiosity. Basically, when I used to like mucking around with plugs n stuff, I had a few ideas that I really liked and started making plugs for all of them. As usual they fell apart at various stages and are now sitting on my hardrive (we've all been there i think?).

But what I wanted to do was find out which would be the most wanted if I ever got round to finishing one. The chances of me ever doing so is practically nil so it's more academic than anything, and i'm interested to see what people will think of my ideas!

EV Discovery

My very first plugin idea. Yes, a TC (predictable, anyone?). But the difference with this that I liked was that instead of starting in a busy, populated universe the game actually starts off with humans at the dawn of their space exploration. Only earth and two other colonies were populated, surrounded by empty grey systems. The plan was to get the player to do astanaught/explorer type missions with similar tones to frozen heart- using subtle ideas rather than just blowing up space ships. Planets would slowly but surely be colonised, new systems unearthed (as human space technology got better) and the missions would be more of a storyline than just tasks.

Eventually the player would meet aliens etc which would drastically change the type of play, but the main jist of it was to give the player power and choice in decisions- should we colonise west, or north? do we want safe, green planets or risky industrial monsters? encourage democracy and growth on earth, or oppress the people with a regime? These choices would affect all sorts of stuff from which spobs/systs changed to the type of ships and missions availible. For example different colonies would allow for different kinds of weapons or ships available. Very complicated, but the simple nature of the universe would give time for this.

Completion: 20% (human space, 20 missions & graphics ((BRYCE IS AMAZING)) but no real progress)

EVO Galaxy Replacer

One of my favourites (and most recent). The basic idea was EVO: revamped. All the same govts, diplomacy, ships etc of EVO but completely new galaxy and a very twisted storyline. I really enjoyed this as it was a semi TC, with no work to do on ships etc giving me time to really concentrate on geography, storylines and missions.

I did loads of work on the systems, and the scale was HUGE- ue and renegade space combined (including uninhabited wastelands) were slightly bigger than the entire EVO universe. Each planet description was written with great care and detail, and then re-written once I'd developed storylines. I really enjoyed putting my own spin on the universe- on the surface UE are still the good crusaders fighting the voinians, but in reality they are a huge empire governed by a corrupt and despotic government (similar to the Rigellians in FH) using martial law and force to control their people, and plagued with internal power stuggles and politics.

The voinians are still warlike but not at all evil- mostly an industrious trading race, which the UE attacked in order to gain wealth and power. Stella Corp were a shady corporation with about 15 systs which added flavour- my idea was to have their own entire storyline which results in them taking over the UE government.

The renegades were composed of several factions and fought with eachother more than anyone else. I did this by making all spobs as a single renegade govt, and then made 3 seperate dudes in each system that were at war. So the idea was that the pirates fed more off each other than organised governments which I feel is a reflection of the real criminal world. They were controlled and manipulated by UE, mafia and other influences. I made some very good missions for these which were the most fun to play (and write).

I never got round to the crescent because there isn't much expansion on the story, i feel they have the most depth descriptions in the original EVO which makes them hard to change. I explained this by saying that human technology wasn't advanced enough to travel the wastes of space into the crescent.

Completion: 50% (all of UE & renegade space, half of voinian, 70 missions over 3 storylines)

Corruption

This plug I actually completed to a point, but never released. I took the Frozen Heart TC and deleted all missions, but kept everything else. In this plug the player joins up with the Rigellian empire. The missions were great fun to play, and the map was greatly altered at the end.

The story involved rising through the ranks of Rigellian power, starting off as a scivvy for Rigel's navy and eventually rising to be leader of the Secret Service (the monarch turns out to be nothing but a public icon which you control). Using a mixture of diplomacy, politics and war the Rigellian's expand their empire- first subverting independent states and building up to invading Magellan/democratic space.

The story is linear and the player assumes a real character- he speaks and interracts with other characters in the story. He gets more and more corrupt and evil, eventually indulging in drugs, debauchery and other evil things (one scene has him personally interrogating and torturing someone when he joins the SS). It is a journey of a character through which us, the player, only controls events from their ship- and watches our hero go from an idealistic pilot to a twisted and dark entity, influenced by his Rigellian masters.

Unfortunately, this never got released. Martin was not happy with me putting my influences into his galaxy- and I fully understand that, it wasn't made to be tampered with. However it was one of the most enjoyable and different plugs I have ever made and played- as far as I know, no one apart from myself has played it.

Completion: 100%

Countdown

Quote

And no I don't mind reading that whole thing, why would I come to a forum, if I just wanted to browse one line posts? The more intelligent words the better!

But my large screen resolution puts me at an inherent disadvantage :p.

Quote

it would seem that all plug ins as well as the stock game are open season for new plugs.

I'd think so as well, but no matter what, there's also the issue of the ultimate fate of the real FH2 (which is more or less done) at stake.

That being said, I've often toyed with releasing a small TC expressly for the community to build upon and play with. I have the graphics and most of the plot concepts.

Quote

< gav's ideas>

These are all quite amazing. I think you could really do a lot with EV:Discovery, especially because the Nova engine is so much better than the EVC engine. You could do natural phenomenon and non-combat-based piloting challenges, and if you wanted to put in the effort to make a branching plot, you'd definitely have an interesting dynamic there.

This post has been edited by UE_Research & Development: 23 January 2008 - 08:28 AM

Are these just for EV:O?

Thank you everyone for kindly giving me your feedback. It's great to hear what people think when you have put so much effort into something, which unfortunately only you know about because it hasn't been released. Sometimes i wish people would just play what i've done so far, just to see what they think!

Although on that note, most of the time I make plugs just because I like to. they are the kind of plugs I would like to play, so really I am doing them mostly for myself- but hey it would be nice if other's could use them too..!

I will answer your questions one by one...

@aether, on Jan 23 2008, 02:07 AM, said in Census:

Discovery is certainly an original spin on a TC, but I'm not convinced it's suited for EVN. Much as my creative sensibilities flinch at rambling, labyrinthine sci fi plot lines that involve blowing up aliens, I think they're best suited to the engine. Still, if you can make it work it would be a breath of fresh air.

The others: My, you've become jaded with the Universe, eh? Countdown strikes me as something that would just entail mounting frustration, more of a Dadaist response to conventional mods than a successful one of its own. I've never played FH so I can't comment on corruption.

You've no shortage of creativity, but as for playability, Galaxy Replacer looks the most promising. Then again, hasn't it been done before? Maybe a new TC is in your future? Don't stop writing, and maybe release alphas of some of those for further feedback. More developers are always good.

Hehe, I'm not jaded with the universe- just life in general, lol!

The thing about my plugs is that they tend to generally be negative in most respects. I try to make characters as real as possible, and based as much as possible on true human behaviour. For example, Corruption- you don't start as an evil, corrupt maniac. At first you set out, fresh and full of promise, like in EVC. Gradually you become a monster because of other influences in the game- something I think happens to real people world over.

@consul-bob, on Jan 23 2008, 04:18 AM, said in Census:

The basic idea reminds me of something years and years and years ago -- "Foundation", which had planetary colonization.

Of course, since it was made for EV, the engine was very limited as to what they could actually pull off, and it was buggy besides. It'd be nice to see it done the way it should be.
As I thought then, I think now -- it'd be a cool plugin.

(/cut)

Out of curiousity, why would the Voinians attack Earth when they themselves are likely falling under attack? While it's true that the Voinians would probably hold out longer than anyone else, I think even they'd come to realize the full desperation of their situation.

At any rate, it sounds like it'd be a very good plugin -- though perhaps a bit sad, since no matter how great a captain the player is, and no matter how many ships they destroy, everyone will still all be killed. I suppose it'd compromise it to have a "happy ending", though, through some measure of humanity's survival.

(/cut)

I think the EV engine (and nova especially) allows for a lot of this kind of thing. Look at Frozen Heart- asteroids, space hazards etc... there is so much you can play with. But it would only appeal to certain types of players. For example, the Civilization series is a slower, steadier build up. I would try to make it similar to that, where the player's goals and tasks is to build an empire, rather than just take missions.

With the second part of your post I think you may have slightly missed the idea? The voinians don't get attacked, it's just us humans I'm afraid! I don't think I ever put a reason into the story, it just follows the line of ''the aliens wanted to kill us because they felt like it''. The voinians only get involved to take advantage

@archon, on Jan 23 2008, 04:31 AM, said in Census:

I would caution you about the mind-boggling amount of work that goes into creating player choice mechanics, which increases exponentially as you add more avenues.

Funnily enough, I thought up a solution to this. Instead of making one plug with thousands of routes, I found a pretty good way of channeling that. You make lots of little plugs which are added into the story as it develops. So for example, if player decides on taking Route 1, he is told in the text ''please put R1 plug into your plug-ins folder''. Whereas Route 2 would require R2 and so on. That way, nothing gets tangled up and each plug acts as a seperator for the other.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 23 2008, 10:56 AM, said in Census:

P.S. Okay, haven't played Frozen heart, and this response is probably going to sic Mr. Turner on me and the whole thread, but by the very fact that the EV series is open, it would seem that all plug ins as well as the stock game are open season for new plugs. I would think that as long as the person put in a large amount of effort and really did a nice revamp of the plug, that the author would be honored to have their plug reused. Anyway, that is just my thought. I'm open to criticism if I'm missing something, and ya I know someone could just be a jerk and go halfway on a plug and rename it "FH2" and be a royal annoyance...but that is obviously not what you did. Still it is nice of you to respect Mr. Turner's wishes in any stretch.

I agree, and that's how I felt at the time. But hey, he's the boss- if he doesn't want it released, I won't release it. however I would be happy to mail it to anyone who wants to give it a try privately. It is a pretty good plug.

@lucky7ac, on Jan 23 2008, 02:03 PM, said in Census:

Are these just for EV:O?

Yes they are all on EVO platform, but I just bought a copy of EVN so possibly I could port..?

Gav

I remember when I first let one of my friends try EV Nova. He landed on an uninhabited planet and the first thing he said after I told him it was uninhabited was, "How do I colonize it?". A TC that lets you colonize would probably bring a little more popularity to the EV games.

@pistgavin, on Feb 3 2008, 03:18 AM, said in Census:

With the second part of your post I think you may have slightly missed the idea? The voinians don't get attacked, it's just us humans I'm afraid! I don't think I ever put a reason into the story, it just follows the line of ''the aliens wanted to kill us because they felt like it''. The voinians only get involved to take advantage

What he means is, how would the Voinians Not come to the conclusion that the Strands wouldn't come after Them next?

If the Strands "Just felt like" exterminating the Humans, why would they not take the next step and "Just feel like" exterminating the Voinians? i.e. If there's no reason to Start, there's no reason to Stop.

And there Are reasons to Start on the Voinians. The Voinians should rightfully think they would be next to be exterminated. And if they Aren't attacked next, then the whole story just rings as hollow xenophobia.

Actually, it comes across as pointlessly xenophobic anyway. An entire cluster of alien nations, who happen to Hate Each Other, if I'm not mistaken, going to war against Humanity... Why? Because it's the latest fad? It's just that it's more blatantly xenophobic if the Strands just Stop, instead of continuing on to kill the Voinians.

It also just doesn't make good Strategic sense. The UE and the Miranu, when considered together, are positioned to act as a buffer between the Voinian Empire and the Strands. They keep the Voinians from effectively expanding to threaten the Strands.

Without them, there's nothing, Nothing from stopping the Empire from crossing the distance and hurting the Strands in their home territories. Even if the Strands Could utterly obliterate every usable resource between the Voinian Empire and the Strands, pulverize every single planet into dust, and drag every Star out of position, what's to stop the Voinians from setting up a network of refueling/resupply stations in the gap to strike against the Strand home systems?

And the Empire would strike them. The Voinians are, all on their own, Creating enough reasons to go to war with them. And here come the Strands showing they can obliterate a species Without a reason? And, if they can reach Earth, they can reach the Voinian Empire, that's not a question.

A peace treaty would not form. The Strands would be untrustworthy after the war, and the Voinians aren't so good with following those anyway.

If the whole point of this exercise, on the Strands part, is to create a break-fire between them and the Voinian Empire:

1. It's bound to fail. Two words: Resupply Stations.
2. It would have been smarter to commit to a more permanent Anti-Voinian solution i.e. signing on with the UE and the Miranu to hit the Voinians Themselves, than to create a fire-gap.

In Summation:
The Voinians are violent expansionists in EVO.
Your story makes the Strands drop-o-the-hat genocidal.

By the end of your story, there's Nothing keeping them from shooting at each other.
The resulting Fire-gap could be bridged in either direction.
There would be no lasting peace-treaty.

Either the Strands would keep up their momentum and attack the Voinians, or the Voinians would attack the Strands to eliminate the threat of a repeat performance.

@eugene-chin, on Feb 4 2008, 06:02 AM, said in Census:

Either the Strands would keep up their momentum and attack the Voinians, or the Voinians would attack the Strands to eliminate the threat of a repeat performance.

Isn't that what he's doing?

I think his story makes perfect sense, except for the "because they can" part. It could easily (and feasibly) be explained by a "there will be war" theory scenario, in which each side is highly suspicious of the others and possessed of strong provincialism. Without going into too much detail, a xenophobic Vonian Empire and a lofty Strand that considers lesser races of less value would be a totally sound explanation. Voinians are xenophobic expansionists, so they attack the UE. The Strands, seeing both Humans and Voinians as sub-human (for lack of better word) attack as well under fear of Voinian hegemony. They have no reason to defend them from an ethical standpoint, and from a practical standpoint, they can't remain neutral.

@archon, on Feb 4 2008, 06:39 PM, said in Census:

Isn't that what he's doing?

I think his story makes perfect sense, except for the "because they can" part. It could easily (and feasibly) be explained by a "there will be war" theory scenario, in which each side is highly suspicious of the others and possessed of strong provincialism. Without going into too much detail, a xenophobic Vonian Empire and a lofty Strand that considers lesser races of less value would be a totally sound explanation. Voinians are xenophobic expansionists, so they attack the UE. The Strands, seeing both Humans and Voinians as sub-human (for lack of better word) attack as well under fear of Voinian hegemony. They have no reason to defend them from an ethical standpoint, and from a practical standpoint, they can't remain neutral.

pistgavin's "Countdown" story, what there is of it written here, includes nothing about a Strand-Voinian conflict.

In response to any such conflict he said:

@pistgavin, on Feb 3 2008, 03:18 AM, said in Census:

@consul-bob, on Jan 23 2008, 04:18 AM, said in Census:
Out of curiousity, why would the Voinians attack Earth when they themselves are likely falling under attack? While it's true that the Voinians would probably hold out longer than anyone else, I think even they'd come to realize the full desperation of their situation.

At any rate, it sounds like it'd be a very good plugin -- though perhaps a bit sad, since no matter how great a captain the player is, and no matter how many ships they destroy, everyone will still all be killed. I suppose it'd compromise it to have a "happy ending", though, through some measure of humanity's survival.

With the second part of your post I think you may have slightly missed the idea? The voinians don't get attacked, it's just us humans I'm afraid! I don't think I ever put a reason into the story, it just follows the line of ''the aliens wanted to kill us because they felt like it''. The voinians only get involved to take advantage

The Voinians don't get attacked. At least, not in "Countdown."
I'm pointing out why that wouldn't make sense.

To swipe your own words, I'm trying to tell him that 'if "There will be war," then "There will be another war."'

The Strand obliterating the UE (and likely the Miranu) would remove a physical boundary preventing the Voinians from hitting Them. And yet, pistgavin says that the Voinians aren't under attack by the Strands? Sounds like a plot hole.