ARPIA2 and an engine quirk

So, unless you've been living in a cave for the last few days, and, similarly, haven't read the other threads on the front page, you know that ARPIA 2.0.0 was released not long ago!

However, there seems to be some... interesting... behaviour that this has unearthed. The first new mďsn resource in the ARPIA string has a completely random AvailStel value, and a ReturnStel of Earth. For some reason, I have not been able to receive a mission offer for the mission on Earth itself.

This isn't an issue of probability. The mission turns up 100% of the time.

This is similar to the post I made over at arpia.be itself, and then copied over. I've done a bit of work since then.

It appears that a specific ReturnStel value excludes the spöb mentioned, along with all other spöbs in the original spöb's s˙st, from the list of valid AvailStel's.

What I want to know is whether anyone has investigated this behaviour in the past. Did it exist before 1.0.A? Is it mentioned anywhere in the Bible? (I couldn't find anything, but I'm tired)

Essentially: Is this behaviour a bug, or a feature? I can see that it might be wanted behaviour, but I wouldn't have expected it.

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Clearly, there are workarounds for this, such as replicating the mission from the excluded systems. However, there seem to be other problems with ReturnStel that Pace has unearthed, and these may not be so easily fixed.

EDIT1: Altered sentence for clarity
EDIT2: Wow. Over 2.5 years here, and this is my first topic.

This post has been edited by Aelran : 31 December 2006 - 04:57 AM

This may be another instance of a (similar) feature which (may be) better known. Have you tested to see if you can get the mission at stellars in adjacent systems to Sol?

The similar feature (which is present in EV:C and O, and I assume is still there) is that if you have a random TravelStel and AvailStel, when you are at a valid AvailStel, the engine will only generate destinations which are at least two jumps away (this is to prevent basic delivery and other missions from being too trivial).

It may well be that this is just one 'symptom' of what the engine is doing, and that it can come into play based on ReturnStel as well, and when not all Stels are random.

Edit: A Nova-specific question is whether the engine now counts systems linked by hypergates/wormholes as 'adjacent'.

Edit2: One case from Override springs to mind. During the Paaren Station string, you have to complete a number of delivery missions which are 'disguised' as normal cargo deliveries (but in fact advance the plot). These have a random UE stellar as AvailStel, and Paaren Station as TravelStel. However - if I remember correctly - it was possible to get these missions on Paaren itself (and complete them without even accelerating ;)). Now, the engine may have changed since I observed this (probably under EV:C), or the behaviour may be different for fixed ReturnStel than for fixed TravelStel.

This post has been edited by pac : 31 December 2006 - 07:44 AM

I have noticed this before - when I did a port of Frozen Heart there was a mission which took you to Earth and on completion it would enable the next mission which was supposed to be available anywhere and would take you to another spob within Sol. So you expect to be able to pick up as soon as you finish the first mission but you can't because the returnstel is in the same system. The best I could do was change the second mission to be only available on Earth.

@pac, on Jan 1 2007, 12:28 AM, said in ReturnStel – functionality thereof:

This may be another instance of a (similar) feature which (may be) better known. Have you tested to see if you can get the mission at stellars in adjacent systems to Sol?

Indeed you can. This was one of the main reasons I was surprised.

Quote

Edit2: One case from Override springs to mind. During the Paaren Station string, you have to complete a number of delivery missions which are 'disguised' as normal cargo deliveries (but in fact advance the plot). These have a random UE stellar as AvailStel, and Paaren Station as TravelStel. However - if I remember correctly - it was possible to get these missions on Paaren itself (and complete them without even accelerating ). Now, the engine may have changed since I observed this (probably under EV:C), or the behaviour may be different for fixed ReturnStel than for fixed TravelStel.

There's definitely something different going on. This behaviour is, from my experience, also blocked by the "two systems away" check.

@guy, on Jan 1 2007, 03:40 AM, said in ReturnStel – functionality thereof:

I have noticed this before - when I did a port of Frozen Heart there was a mission which took you to Earth and on completion it would enable the next mission which was supposed to be available anywhere and would take you to another spob within Sol. So you expect to be able to pick up as soon as you finish the first mission but you can't because the returnstel is in the same system. The best I could do was change the second mission to be only available on Earth.

That's quite good to know. With a little luck, Pace will show up to describe the other issues with ReturnStel that he's noticed.

So, it looks like the structure of this looks as follows: ReturnStel blocks AvailStel within that system, but allows it in all other systems, rather than using the two-system check used in checking AvailStel against ReturnStel. I shall add this to my notes.

Sorry about this, but I won't be really able to investigate: exams from the 4th of January up until the 19th, and then a week of skiing in the Alps. After that, I dunno I've got big papers to work on.
Ah, 3rd year uni harder than the previous years.

No problem. I'd have looked into things myself anyway. All I can say is this: Good luck!