Quote

Originally posted by Restorer:
**You should upgrade to Carrara 1.1. It's only $150, and it's an entirely new (and great) package. If you haven't heard of Carrara, it was originally developed as the successor to Ray Dream by Metacreations, and was sold to eovia. It's a fusion of Infini-D and Ray Dream 6, and it looks really promising. I might get it this Christmas. Check out some reviews somewhere.

-Matt

**

Oh, Eovia emails me once a month to remind me. I've demo'd it, and like it, but I hate shelling out cash for what is for my uses a bug fix. That is, to get the modelling tools of Ray Dream and an interface that actually works! :}

Okay, okay, the particle system was cool. And the lense flares are nice, too...

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

Quote

Originally posted by Commander Arashi:
**Renderboy. That brings me back. I learned on Renderboy. Registered it, too. It has a very, very slow render engine but is easy to use...

Aw, I'll stick with Ray Nightmare. Paid $40 for my first copy.

**

Now how about MacDraw 3d? (Or Mac3d or whatever it was called.) Does anyone else remember using that? A damn fine program in 256 colors (Or black and white if you don't have a color display)

And so what that it apperantly only used about 2 decimal places when calculating the trigonometry?

I started off my 3D life in 3dWorld by Microspot.

The first ship I ever made was called the Peregrine, and it was all pyramids. Heh, I might dig it up sometime.

Almost a year ago I started w/ Strata. I love it, I was making good stuff within a week. The first night I had Strata I made a ship. It was so bad, but Strata is very easy to learn.

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"There is enough life on earth to fill fifty planets. Be prepared for anything."
K-Pax
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Originally posted by Evil Penguin:
**I started off my 3D life in 3dWorld by Microspot.

The first ship I ever made was called the Peregrine, and it was all pyramids. Heh, I might dig it up sometime.

Almost a year ago I started w/ Strata. I love it, I was making good stuff within a week. The first night I had Strata I made a ship. It was so bad, but Strata is very easy to learn.

**

Indeed, except I began on strata about 3 years ago,. Then moved to C4D Go within 6 months. About a year ago I got C4D Xl.

Strata is the program to learn on. Just make sure to use a PDF manual. without it, it's just plain impossible.

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Quote

Originally posted by ares1:
**Matrix, I learned the ins and outs of mechanisto in about... oh, a month or two. I was making presentable stuff about 2 weeks in. Mechanisto does not have a lot of fancy features, but it is more than adaquete (sp?) for making ships/outfits/spobs for EV or EVO. And even a lot of strata users will tell you that mechanisto is simpler in many respects, and easier to learn for newbies.

Show me some of your l33t strata ships. I'll so you some crack-inspired mechanisto ships, and we can compare and contrast.

**

Ares, I started on Mechanisto. I then moved on to Extreme 3d, then Strata Vision 4, then Strata Vision 5, then supplementing it with Bryce, Poser, Pixels 3d and Clayscape, then Strata 3d, and now Strata 3d Pro. I still use Bryce, Poser and Clayscape to supplement Strata.

I really couldn't recommend Mechanisto to anyone as 'easy to learn', certainly not compared with Strata 3d, unless you happen to be wanting to use Strata without the PDF manual.

To make a triangle, use the triangle tool. No tapering of Cubes required (unless you actually mean a pyramid).

I know a lot of old EV-ers are quite dedicated to Mechanisto, and anything seems easier if it's what you learnt on. Having taken that into consideration, I'm still sticking with Strata.

For some of my ships (made in Strata Vision 5), see below.

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Squibix:
You don't, from what I understand. As far as I know no other aps are as object-oriented as Mechanisto: that is, while we're always dealing with the same bunch of base objects, they aren't, and so don't need all those other transforms. They have other ways of doing things. Or so I understand. Perhaps an actual Strata user could further elucidate?

This isn't actually what 'object oriented' means. Mechanisto is Function rather than Object oriented - you pick a function, and then apply it to an object using numerical parameters. It then updates the display.

In Strata, you select a tool and manipulate the object directly by dragging or using handles, and it updates interactively.

POV Ray is even more script oriented than Mechanisto, while Pixels 3d moves more in the direction that Strata is in.

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
This isn't actually what 'object oriented' means.

I was speaking English, not tech-speak. Not having done more with Strata than try it out in passing I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that there are a number of ways to create bits of ships besides starting with the preset objects: these bezier curves, for example. In Mechanisto, as you are no doubt aware, modellers are pretty much limited to the eight shapes of the the object menu for whatever they want to make. That's what I meant by 'object-oriented': that everything you make is built out of those objects.

Quote

POV Ray is even more script oriented than Mechanisto, while Pixels 3d moves more in the direction that Strata is in.

I would disagree that Mechanisto is 'script oriented' at all; if it were, I wouldn't have been able to learn it! Yes, you can type in numbers to change the transform values, but you can also use the mouse for most of them if you want. It just makes it impossible to do anything with any accuracy.

(This message has been edited by Squibix (edited 12-05-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by Squibix:
**I would disagree that Mechanisto is 'script oriented' at all; if it were, I wouldn't have been able to learn it! Yes, you can type in numbers to change the transform values, but you can also use the mouse for most of them if you want. It just makes it impossible to do anything with any accuracy.

(This message has been edited by Squibix (edited 12-05-2001).)**

I'm not getting into the "tech speak vs. english" war again. But the handy term for mechanisto -- or for modelling within Bryce 4.0 or Poser -- is "Primitive modelling." It doesn't imply un-evolved; it just means you are given a selection of basic geometric shapes which you can then modify and combine.

I bought Ray Dream specifically to work with Bezier curves. Specifically, splines (Ray Dream does not offer NURBS). Metaballs were a bonus (a dubious bonus). I still like modelling things in the Bryce terrain modeller; I can think quite quickly in grey-scale, and by using some art tools I can get a very organic look.

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

Quote

Originally posted by Commander Arashi:
**I'm not getting into the "tech speak vs. english" war again. But the handy term for mechanisto -- or for modelling within Bryce 4.0 or Poser -- is "Primitive modelling." It doesn't imply un-evolved; it just means you are given a selection of basic geometric shapes which you can then modify and combine.

I bought Ray Dream specifically to work with Bezier curves. Specifically, splines (Ray Dream does not offer NURBS). Metaballs were a bonus (a dubious bonus). I still like modelling things in the Bryce terrain modeller; I can think quite quickly in grey-scale, and by using some art tools I can get a very organic look.
**

Whoa, wait a minute! Metaballs? OK, either you're using Ray Dream 6 or higher, or I can't find a big part of my package. Which version are you using, and how do you use the metaballs?

-Matt

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'I' before 'E', except in "Budweiser".
Disclaimer: All claims made herein are hereby considered null and void. No guarantee of satisfaction is given, either explicitly or implicitly.
(url="http://"http://www.pacificnet.net/~restorer/3d/")3D Model Samples(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Commander Arashi:
I'm not getting into the "tech speak vs. english" war again. But the handy term for mechanisto -- or for modelling within Bryce 4.0 or Poser -- is "Primitive modelling."

Yeah, that's what I meant! Primitive modeling, that's the stuff. Thanks!

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'easier to learn'. Strata3d is a modern object oriented 3d package, whereas Mechanisto is a few generations before, and partly object oriented, partly function or script oriented. Having worked with both, I would take Strata any day.
**

I'm sorry, this thread seems to have got out of hand.
As correctly pointed out in the post above this one, Mechanisto is a primitive modelling environment, but that isn't the same as object oriented.

Strata is partly primitives and partly other things.

Object orientation is basically about the difference between picking what you want to work on and then what you want to do with it (object oriented) and picking the function with its parameters and applying it to an object (function oriented). Strata isn't completely object oriented, and Mechanisto isn't completely function oriented, but Strata is much further toward the object end and Mechanisto toward the function end.

I'm not sure if this is 'tech-speak', but, aside from this definition, I don't think 'object oriented' has a meaning in English.

Incidentally, Strata has become steadily more object oriented over the years. In Vision 4 you opened a new dialog to work on an object, so, even though you worked visually, you worked out of context. In current versions the object stays in its context and you work from the main screen.

There are advantages to both, but the overall trend has been towards object orientation. This was traditionally also the classic Mac/Dos debate. MSDOS was entirely function oriented, whereas the Mac was (more) object oriented. This meant that DOS computers could execute code faster than similar specced Mac machines, but that the user could learn the Mac more quickly. Now Windows has bought (to some extent) into object orientation, thereby losing its speed advantage.

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M A R T I N • T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)

(This message has been edited by Martin Turner (edited 12-06-2001).)

What? You guys are still talking about this? Just go buy Hash, already! Or Maya.

-david-

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Quote

Originally posted by Meowx Design:
Just go buy Hash, already!

LoL! Dont worry I know what you mean, it just sounds funny.

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**Incidentally, Strata has become steadily more object oriented over the years. In Vision 4 you opened a new dialog to work on an object, so, even though you worked visually, you worked out of context. In current versions the object stays in its context and you work from the main screen.
**

You can actually still do that in Strata nowadays. Just double click on an object within the main screen, and it will open it in a new window for you to work on it.

ewan

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may contain nuts

Quote

Originally posted by Restorer:
**Whoa, wait a minute! Metaballs? OK, either you're using Ray Dream 6 or higher, or I can't find a big part of my package. Which version are you using, and how do you use the metaballs?

-Matt

**

There is a plug-in modeller called "Blubble" that first showed up with RDS 4.0 on the Mac. I have 5.5 now, and a button for the metaball modeller is right beside the buttons for the mesh form modeller and so forth. I found it as wonderful to use as the rest of Ray Nightmare. Amorphium's balls are a little better, and Amorphium Pro has a cool little feature called "wax."

That said, I'm looking over Carrara one more time. I've been working on a massive modelling project and anything that speeds the process is probably worth the money I spend....

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everywhere else, it's --
"Nomuse"

I am trying to learn Strata, but it isn't easy. Can someone point me towards a good strata tutorial for EV graphic creation?

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--ares
(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)

Remember that you are a unique individual - just like everybody else.

If you're going to make a ship in Strata3D, you'll need to learn the basics first.
First of all, there should be an Info Palette that comes up once the program is launched. There's a link to a tutorial site in that palette. I don't know the URL of the site, so use the Info Palette to get there, and bookmark the site.

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ŃCafall