Quote

Originally posted by Paranoid:
Can you say what other outfits and how many on each ship?

If you would be so kind as to hand over all the current stats for the Zidagar fleet, I will happily accomodate you. However, I don't have them right now, neither do I have the stats for the Zidagar Carrier which I also desperately need.

I'll try and get all the new stats written up tomorrow. However, it would be helped if someone could get me the Carrier stats. I can get the stats for the other ships, but not the Carrier.

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Those who would ignore reality are doomed by it.
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Millennium has arrived. See it at the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")EV Chronicles(/url)

Yes people need to keep track of their ships mass and weapon space. If anyone needs any data from me I will provide it. I mean you can outfit a ships with tons of junk but there needs to be space for it. Paranoid did you ever reply to RMA's complaint about your space bombs and how you couldn't cram that many into your ships. I checked what RMA said and he is right that you do not have enough space for that many bombs.

Also I will provide a complete history of my research (ie: dates started dates done, 1-3 sentence explanation)

Also: Varuna if you are out there I have almost completed your task. Although RMA has strayed from your path I have taken it up and almost destroyed Reds renegades.
Ok now I am logging off....

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"Chaos is our ally, discipline our mortal foe" --Azdgari Commander
Long live the Azdgari!
Thanks Bush, great job at protecting oil fields. Oh but next time, protecting the first known artifacts of writing, and the first calendar might be preferable.

Objection to Gordontrons post. Unless stated otherwise, posts are encrypted as standard. I for one never say my posts are encrypted, but they always are. Unless you say your post isnt encrypted, it's encrypted. This stops annoying people making bad posts.

Oh, and the battle in Chak...can we just end it? Even if I lost way back soon after it was joined, I had other fleets waiting. Have my entire fleet in battle destroyed for all I care, as long as the battle's over. Of course the same would have to be said for the Azdgari fleet...I can take some losses in my backup fleet if Gordontron wants it to be so.

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If someone makes a mistake, it is not my fault. I will however use it to my advantage.

Voted most likely to be a serial killer by Insane Asylum - 2002

(This message has been edited by RMA (edited 05-10-2003).)

I'm expecting a follow up post from Kauthor in regards to this, seeing as he agreed to back up my opinion on the Battle of Chak, which is indeed a thorn in this webstory's side.

Here's the fleet numbers I'll go by.

I choose to ignore the posts in which RMA and Gordontron flame one another for controlling fleets or not posting in a relatively timely enough manner (by one standard), as well as the statement that defending a home system gives you some battle advantage mentally, which goes against the training rule. Thus, I will also be counting in the only other part that matters, the matter of reinforcements. Except no reinforcements show up before the time when Gordontron posted this:

Quote

Originally posted by Gordontron on April 15, 2003:
The iggy fleet had taken the systems of Chak, Diudir, and Apert. They have not taken the planets.
But they have lost a number of ships.
Gordons fleet had moved to the system Molar.
The newly made ships, the fleet from Muid move to the Tollb system. The fleets from Dirach, and Toi moved to the Tinar system.

I choose to note that he technically agreed that Chak had been lost to the Igadzra there, but let's move on. However, the Igadzra did not take many losses. The main losses I will delineate are those of the second Battle of Chak, which I shall expound on. Thus, the second Battle of Chak involves the bulk of the initial Igadzra fleet fighting the Azdgari combined fleet.

I'm taking this as the basis for the rest of my moderation here. Red, if you want to say something about this, being as you're the battle moderator, go ahead, but I desperately want this issue resolved, and I'm doing it in such a way as I see allows for no objection from either party(seeing as RMA agreed to lose a huge portion of his entire fleet, which is hardly something Gordontron can object to, considering the following). So please, talk to me if you object to this, because I really want this resolved now. It's shameful how long we've put it off.

From this I deduce that the only serious technological advantage the Azdgari have is the jammer. The sheer number of phase turrets fielded by the Igadzra would counter the shield regenerators. Considering the sheer volume of Igadzra ships and the number of phase weapons they can field, as well as similar attributes of the Azdgari fleet, I declare that both fleets practically completely annihilated one another, leaving few total survivors. The initial Igadzra fleet in Chak was totally wiped out by the Azdgari, who in turn suffered heavy losses. The Igadzra mop up fleet then entered Chak and, with heavy losses of their own, destroyed the remaining Azdgari fleet in Chak.

Result of the Battle of Chak
Igadzra Losses: Heavy, taking into account the losses that would have been taken from the Igadzra backup fleet that would have mopped up Chak after the initial fleet was there.
200 Igazras lost
300 Aradas lost

Azdgari Losses: All
124 Azdgari Warhips
333 Azdaras
196 Azdgari Aradas
100G2 Azdaras:

Thus, the Battle(s) of Chak is declared over. From now on, IC, it will be assumed to be over from all perspectives. Both sides suffered extremely heavy losses, so I better hear some damn reasonable arguments to counter this if anyone has complaints. glares

Thank God I had time to handle this today.

I will edit this if I find something showing me my fleet tallies to be off, but I am reasonably sure they are correct. (EDIT: forgot G2 Azdaras. They're in there now.)

Regards,
Solel

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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
—J. R. R. Tolkien
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)

(This message has been edited by Solel (edited 05-11-2003).)

(This message has been edited by Solel (edited 05-11-2003).)

(This message has been edited by Solel (edited 05-11-2003).)

I agree with Solel's moderation based on what he posted. I am agreeing with Solel based on impartial view here. Solel's moderation will be upholded when Red agrees.

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Gordontron:
I screwed up in that post and I'll fix the mistake. I said originally that the weapons were the same size as a grenade and since I didn't look back at my post, I assumed that would be 1/1000 tons. Even after I fixed that my supply ships were still incorrect, so I reduced the number to 20,000 mines. (I thought these vessels had 300 cargo space but they only have 250) Frigates 6,000, Cruisers 9,000, Kirokka 2,000. That should solve the legitimacy issue. I apologize profusely for the error.

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"Paranoia is Life"

"Objection to Gordontrons post. Unless stated otherwise, posts are encrypted as standard. I for one never say my posts are encrypted, but they always are. Unless you say your post isnt encrypted, it's encrypted."-RMA
Everyone says that their messages are enrypted and some people go so far to have different levels of encryption. What ever the mods say. But even so the orientation of the ships would allow my ships to follow them. Their are only two jumps from that system and it was apparent they weren't jumping to Raigar.

Sole I will accept your ruling. However Rima and I need some time to reply.
Hate to nit pick but I think it is time I returned the favor :
-"as well as the statement that defending a home system gives you some battle advantage mentally, which goes against the training rule."-Sole
This is not training it is a well proven historical fact. A group defending their home would do better than the group that was attacking. However this may not provide much of an advantage.
-Also did you factor in various tactics. For instance did you have RMA use his sphere formation. Because:
Also a point I made clear is asteroids. Part of the reason I attacked was because of them. It is simply impossible to hold a rigid formation in an asteroid field. The romans had the best tactics and formations but if some one roled a bunch of boulders through their ranks they would either take heavy loses or move out the way losing coheasion.
-The shield regenerator is also an element you may want to factor in.

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"Chaos is our ally, discipline our mortal foe" --Azdgari Commander
Long live the Azdgari!
Thanks Bush, great job at protecting oil fields. Oh but next time, protecting the first known artifacts of writing, and the first calendar might be preferable.

I maintain my ruling as it is because:

1. There are no asteroids in Chak.

2. You're in space. If you're defending your home system and being reckless about defending it, I find it unlikely that you'll actually fight better. This would apply more to ground fighting, as I see it, seeing as space combat would require much more focus and concentration. But that too would be negated if you suffered from orbital bombardment.

3. I did factor in the shield enhancements in the most logical way I could. You didn't have many G2 azdaras, and, once again, the sheer volume of fire coming from the Igadzra's weapons is enough to counter it in the long run. Mind, the same argument was the reason why your fleet eliminated the first Igadzra fleet there.

The ruling stays as it is. Those were good reasons, but I had already adressed them in what I saw was a logical method.

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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
—J. R. R. Tolkien
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)

Oh, one other thing.

Paranoid, you say these bombs of yours do 5 damage each? That means that you have the capability to do, what, 5000 damage with one ton worth of them? That sounds a little absurd. Can you show me a reason why these things aren't overpowered for their size?

Oh, and this new guidance system of yours for the Infernus rockets, are you actually planning to refit all your ships so you can guide it with the new system, or are they just going to be like the regular rocket when you fire it, despite the new guidance system, and just fire straight? Because if you don't refit your ships with it, that's what would happen.

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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
—J. R. R. Tolkien
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Solel:
**I maintain my ruling as it is because:

1. There are no asteroids in Chak.

2. You're in space. If you're defending your home system and being reckless about defending it, I find it unlikely that you'll actually fight better. This would apply more to ground fighting, as I see it, seeing as space combat would require much more focus and concentration. But that too would be negated if you suffered from orbital bombardment.

3. I did factor in the shield enhancements in the most logical way I could. You didn't have many G2 azdaras, and, once again, the sheer volume of fire coming from the Igadzra's weapons is enough to counter it in the long run. Mind, the same argument was the reason why your fleet eliminated the first Igadzra fleet there.

The ruling stays as it is. Those were good reasons, but I had already adressed them in what I saw was a logical method.

**

You're completely right. I must have been crazy when I posted the counter attack on Chak. No asteroids? Argh. Oh I accept your ruling. Hang on I will post later tonight on the aftermath.

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"Chaos is our ally, discipline our mortal foe" --Azdgari Commander
Long live the Azdgari!
Thanks Bush, great job at protecting oil fields. Oh but next time, protecting the first known artifacts of writing, and the first calendar might be preferable.

I'll be waiting....with a lot of ships.

RMA

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If someone makes a mistake, it is not my fault. I will however use it to my advantage.

Voted most likely to be a serial killer by Insane Asylum - 2002

Thank the Galactic Spirit we finally put that behind us.

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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
—J. R. R. Tolkien
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)

I agree!

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Sorry, but can anyone actually understand Gordontrons ship production figures? They're all over the place.

And this new scanner of his...it'd require other races to have scientists who base everything on 1900s earth physics. I hardly think any of the scanners or cloaks about already would operate on the principle of a space vacuum being empty.

Plus his scouting party would have died in less than a second. Not much time to notice anything.

And Hizdriar is a strandless world. I think I can imagine the reaction to Azdgari trying to set up base on it.

RMA

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If someone makes a mistake, it is not my fault. I will however use it to my advantage.

Voted most likely to be a serial killer by Insane Asylum - 2002

RMA:
I apologize for the inconveniance but I haven't been able to post my fleets recently. You might want to take back your attack when you see the fleet you blundered into. This is my mistake though so you can just edit your post and we will ignore the whole incidence. You may also attack though outnumbered (numerically) more than 60-1, so I doubt much success. You have 4 hours from this post before I will reply.

Combined Fleet:
440 Strroka Fighters
71 Interceptors
68 Supply ships
10 Cruisers
120 Frigates
127 Krikka Warships
47 VICruisers
184 Strroka Carriers
1 Base (Carries 240 HF because it was 60 Cruisers)

Carried fighters:
2272 Strroka
280 HF
188 Interceptors

Quote

Paranoid, you say these bombs of yours do 5 damage each? That means that you have the capability to do, what, 5000 damage with one ton worth of them? That sounds a little absurd. Can you show me a reason why these things aren't overpowered for their size?

I actually was trying to use them to sense cloaked vessels. While mines with mild damage would be that small with that damage (ICBM or three foot tall nuke which is bigger) I could decrease it to one tenth the damage without any complaints. If I do though I would like sensors that could differentiate between other mines and vessels though...

Quote

Oh, and this new guidance system of yours for the Infernus rockets, are you actually planning to refit all your ships so you can guide it with the new system, or are they just going to be like the regular rocket when you fire it, despite the new guidance system, and just fire straight? Because if you don't refit your ships with it, that's what would happen.

I am outfitting them but since they have no launcher I'm just outfitting packets of 5 on each fighter. The guidance system is also being installed in the VR systems as an application so it's time is just a few minutes.

Must leave immediately.

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"What if to reach the highest place you had to fall?"
Peter Mayer

"And this new scanner of his...it'd require other races to have scientists who base everything on 1900s earth physics. I hardly think any of the scanners or cloaks about already would operate on the principle of a space vacuum being empty.

Plus his scouting party would have died in less than a second. Not much time to notice anything.

And Hizdriar is a strandless world. I think I can imagine the reaction to Azdgari trying to set up base on it."

Not really. I was just saying that it used contrary science to that of the 1900's.

No you used your cloak against Paranoid. It is highly likely that his intel would have told me. Not to mention that it would be hard to posistion your slow ships against my fast moving ships but I let it slide.

It says that they are all a bunch of criminals who are opressed by the renegades. They apparently have loose immigration laws and would have a bad defense and government. Considering the Azdgari got rid of the renegades I think it would be fairly easy, look at what Sole did.

"16)Azdgari Space Industrialisation
With all the free space opened up by the Azdgari evacuation, however improbable the evacuation of billions of people without any support fleets may be, and through hostile space, it has been decided to turn the Azdgari worlds into Industrial powerhouses, with no regard for the enviroment of any of the planets or systems. This is expected to increase both Igadzra and Zidagar fleet production significantly. It will be done in several stages, to ensure full use is made of the space.
Started 12/05/03 Completion 14/05/03"-RMA
I said many a times that I had systems inplace that would render the planets useless. I will use these if you don't get out.

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"Chaos is our ally, discipline our mortal foe" --Azdgari Commander
Long live the Azdgari!
"Guns don't kill people, ammunition does."-Garison Keeler

That's the scorched earth thing you never described, only alluded to? At least, I don't remember it being described.

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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
—J. R. R. Tolkien
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)

Alright. So you render the planets useless. How? Do you vaporize the atmosphere or turn the surface into a sea of molten rock? Boy, I believe your populace would greatly appretiate getting murdered like that. Aside from the fact that it is rather hard to simply devastate an entire planet , this seems rather unrealistic. Evacuate your civillians? To where, exactly? I very much doubt Raigar can hold the population of all your other planets, even if they do have relatively low populations.

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Those who would ignore reality are doomed by it.
--------------
Millennium has arrived. See it at the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")EV Chronicles(/url)

"Alright. So you render the planets useless. How? Do you vaporize the atmosphere or turn the surface into a sea of molten rock? Boy, I believe your populace would greatly appretiate getting murdered like that. Aside from the fact that it is rather hard to simply devastate an entire planet, this seems rather unrealistic. Evacuate your civillians? To where, exactly? I very much doubt Raigar can hold the population of all your other planets, even if they do have relatively low populations."

Please re-read my post. Considering there were only about 20 citizens were left that is not much of problem, they could easily escape via a miranu trade ship. Actually I said that as soon as the Iggys started advancing I had most of my populace evacuated to Muid (the northern outpost). I said very early that all Azdgari's had a craft of some kind. It is apparent in history that the Azdgari were easily migrated.

Here is what I said:
Most of the people moved to Raigar. Soon however the planet was filled to the Max and more room was needed. So many moved to the now Azdgari controled but Miranu supervised, Kitrak (Right Mira). Even that was not enough so many moved to Dewe, but most of the left overs (millions if not billions) moved to Hizdrair. There were so many Azdgari's on Hizdrair that they took advantage of the lpose immigration laws and took control of the government. The corrupted planet was fixed in all areas. They changed the government to an Azdgari style. Many of the people there were criminals those were either kept in close watch or were sent to Garn. Garn was a frozen world. The criminals manned the many environmentally unfriendly industries that had flourished on Hizdriar's loose government. This began to change the environemnt of Garn. The planet began to heat up. At this time the planet has become habitable and there is a temperate climate and the industries have been cleaned up. Many Azdgaris have moved to Garren and that is now owned by the Azdgari's too. The criminals were then sent to F-7136, a mud world with no standing water. An ammunition factory was started there, owned and operated by criminals but overseen by the Azdgari. The left over explosive material was used to blast huge holes in the earth. This created rivers, lakes, hills, and dry places. Plants were brought in and it is almost habitable."

On the scoarched earth. First of all the Azdgari are very environmentally concious as I have noted before. So it was not out of the blue that concerned scientists would but an environmental factor into the scoarched earth program. Part of this program was a bunch of escape capsul type ships that sent a noahs arc type mission to Mira. Next the scoarched earth program would use old dangerous explosives left over from high grade weapons manufacturing to destroy the infastructures of the planets ie: highways, water, power, government, and main city buildings. Next all the animals and plants that could not be evacuated were left on the planet unfortunately. The planet was burned to a crisp. The icecaps were melted using explosives a ultra quick green house effect and the focusing of all the satelites (sp) to focus the suns energy on the polar ice caps. This would screw up the weather system causing lightning hurricanes and other weather systems. Next a volley of chemicals left over from the age of chemical weapons were used on the planets. These weapons were left over from the days when their was no international law about chemical weapons. Next the biological weapons are used on the planet desvistating all life. They are able to live in water/water vapor so this makes the planet deadly to all life. Also the weak shields that protect all planets from asteroids is blown. This allows asteroids to reign down on the planet, which happens in those systems with asteroids. Also mines and industrial equipment is destroyed.

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"Chaos is our ally, discipline our mortal foe" --Azdgari Commander
Long live the Azdgari!
"Guns don't kill people, ammunition does."-Garison Keeler

Okay, consider yesterdays attack annulled...and an attack happening today instead. I have a lot more ships within range. A lot more.

With Solel taking over strandless worlds, well he's a strandless government, not a government responsible for putting people in the line of fire from the renagades.

And while you alluded to these systems many times, the Azdgari never had them ingame, and you never did anything to get any.

And your fleet positions still show ships in Hegemony systems Paranoid...fairly sure you retreated all ships to get away with the low loss count.

RMA

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If someone makes a mistake, it is not my fault. I will however use it to my advantage.

Voted most likely to be a serial killer by Insane Asylum - 2002