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Originally posted by Insano:
**Who are you to say it's right? And it's not me saying it's immoral. It's God.
**
I didn't say it was right. I said it wasn't wrong. As for your other comment, find me a Biblical resource, if you would. Last time I checked, it wasn't God who said that, but humans who said that in the name of God. Let me remind you that people have been killed, and are being killed, in the name of God.
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"My guitar gently weeps." George Harrison, 1943-2001
And Skyblade said
Anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, anti-pornography, anti-drug, Anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, anti-pornography, anti-drug, Gore and Clinton bashing, pro-consitution, pro-gun, government power restriction, rights of religion. Those are political terms that describe me, and that the B&Bers; absolutely detest.
Let me offer my views.
A)Anti-homosexual?
Homosexuality may be based on genetics or upbringing;I don't know if anybody knows which.
Three of my best friends are homosexual;this does not affect in any way my opinion of them.
As personally I don't understand the point of intercourse when not for procreation, I can't say I understand why they are homosexual;it doesn't need explaining;it just is,and it is perfectly natural.People have been homosexual for thousands of years.I beleive the Bible mentions homosexuality.
When it doesn't affect people adversely,I see no problem with it.
Do not persecute people because they are different.
Paedophilia now,that is just sick. So is incest, although the Bible does mention and justify that.
B)Anti-Abortion?
The Bible may object to abortion,but bear in mind that back then abortion techniques were worse than medieval.
As for the thing about terminating unborn lives,how is a tiny cluster of cells in any way different from something like a bacteria? I cleaned the toilet the other day;does my use of Jif™ mean that that's on par with abortion?
Obviously when the foetus is grown things become hazy.
But face it,if people weren't allowed to abort,the rate of teen pregnancy would get a lot higher.
C)Anti-pornography.
With this I agree whole-heartedly.
Although I'll admit I do feel lust at times,I find the concept of pornography rather pointless.Obviosly other people,mainly desperate,randy teenage males, find uses for it,but I do not.
My best (female) friend is as ugly as sin,but it's her mind which counts.Beauty is only skin deep,after all,and if people could learn to look beyond the skin, there would be a better world.
D)Anti-drug.
I also agree with that.Most of the blood-bourne diseases such as HIV/AIDS which other people have already attributed to homosexuality are in fact caused by the sharing of hypodermic needles,at least where I live.
As for marijuana,ecstacy,speed,and all that,I see as little need for them as I do pornography.
E)Gore and Clinton bashing.
As I don't live in America,I'm not qualified to comment.
F)Pro-constitution.
Again,as I don't know much about the American constitution,I can't comment.
G)Pro-gun.
This I find stupid.
I know that the constitution guarantees the American right to bear and use firearms, but this is no longer the frontier.There are no longer native Americans or wild animals roaming the praries looking for white settlers to kill/eat.
As for the people who say a gun is for home protection,they would not need it if other Americans did not have the right to purchase and utilise firearms,no questions asked.
In New Zealand,all firearms have to be registered with the police,who make you undergo all kinds of psychology tests and things before they allow you to use guns.
A cop even goes round to your home to quiz family on wether the applicant is telling the truth.
Weapons use is also restricted to over-18's.
As a result,we do not have teenagers mowing down their classmates with sub-machine guns.
H)Government power restriction.
I disagree.Although total government control meethods such as dictatorship or communism do not work,the former because it works by opressing the citizens,and the latter because humanity is unable to focus on the goals of the group rather than their personal goals,I beleive that if the government can keep a benevolent eye upon their citizens,they can more effectively stop crime.
The values of freedom and security are inversely proportional;the more freedom one has,the less security,and vice versa.
As I do nothing that is in any way illegal,I tend to prefer security over freedom.
Would you feel secure knowing that the weird nut down the road was entitled by law(or absence thereof) to go and shoot your head off?
I)Rights of Religion.
Religious groups should have all the rights of other civilians,and no more.
Individuals within the group should have the right to choose wether or not to abort, to be homosexual,to believe whatever they wish to.
What a religious group does not have the right to do is persecute others because of that religion,or force their religion on everyone. Worshippers come because they feel the need for a higher power to justify the universe, not if they are forced to.
What is the use of obesiance to a God or Gods if it is false?
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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/shades_shipyard")Shade's Shipyard(/url), the source for your ship needs.
Homosexuality is not a choice. But I guess that I would not know. And neither would you (I assume). If you are not a homosexual, I don't think you can tell us whether it is a choice or not. And judging by how much homosexuals suffer great mental anguish because of their difference, I doubt anyone really wants to be gay. My cousin is a manic depressive, partially because she is gay, I suspect.
I don't think you can explain to us exactly how homosexuals feel, why they feel that way, and what they do, unless you yourself are homosexual. And the radio is not the most trustable source of information.
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--ares
(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)
"A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Heh, this really needs to be moved to Just Chat or the Banter and Brawl.
I've already voiced my opinions, and there's no point on repeating them. 
Political discussions are pretty much pointless, since you get nowhere...
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GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
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I didn't say it was right. I said it wasn't wrong. As for your other comment, find me a Biblical resource, if you would. Last time I checked, it wasn't God who said that, but humans who said that in the name of God. Let me remind you that people have been killed, and are being killed, in the name of God.
If it isn't wrong and you say didn't say that it's right, then what is it? 2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." This means that God is the source of all Scripture, men just write it. And a lot of people are dying in the name of God. Some just not the right one. The ones dying for the one true god have great faith and I'm sure await a great reward in heaven.
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And judging by how much homosexuals suffer great mental anguish because of their difference, I doubt anyone really wants to be gay. My cousin is a manic depressive, partially because she is gay, I suspect.
And like I said earlier, it is possible to not be gay anymore. There have been many cases of this happening. And again, I have nothing against homosexuals themselves, just their conduct.
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What a religious group does not have the right to do is persecute others because of that religion,or force their religion on everyone.
Persecute, no. Force, that's not good either. But trying to convince someone that their religion is right, that's good. Nonviolent methods. The reasons I tell people about my religion is not because I want my standing with God to go up, but because I want them to be in heaven.
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I've already voiced my opinions, and there's no point on repeating them. Political discussions are pretty much pointless, since you get nowhere...
True, if this rate of progress continues much longer I'm gonna quit.
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Go to the Escape Velocity Empire. (url="http://"http://evempire.netfirms.com")http://evempire.netfirms.com(/url) Post all your stuff and enjoy everyone else's.
Worms Armageddon name: Insano
XWA name: KMG_Corran
STVEF name: Insano
My whole opinion on it is that people can beleive and do whatever (or whoever, as the case may be ;)) the want to do. This is America, land of free beleive and speech. Now, can we get back to Boozerama discusion?
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Thies post wuz cheacked bi Microsoft speel cheacker!
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You know what I just realized? The initials are SOBB, sob as in cry. funny
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You have been overriden by Overrider. Prepare to die evil scum! -Me
There are 9 people in this world. Those who can eat and those who don't know how to write a sig.
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Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
**And a lot of people are dying in the name of God. Some just not the right one. The ones dying for the one true god have great faith and I'm sure await a great reward in heaven.
**
Not the right God? One true God? I believe that there is a God, and there probably is, but how can you say that any version of God is wrong? When all you have to go by is a vague and confusing book written thousands of years ago, of which there are hundreds or thousands of different translations, how can you say definetly exactly who and what God is?
You have absolutely no way of knowing. Until we die, and rise or fall (according to your beliefs) we will simply never know.
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--ares
(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)
"A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
If it isn't wrong and you say didn't say that it's right, then what is it?
It is not for anyone to judge. Neither you nor I knows what it feels like to be gay, and thus neither of us can really judge it.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." This means that God is the source of all Scripture, men just write it.
Saying that the source of scripture is God in scripture isn't a valid arguement for itself. It's circular reasoning. Besides, the Bible was written by men, and men are biased individuals.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
**And a lot of people are dying in the name of God. Some just not the right one. The ones dying for the one true god have great faith and I'm sure await a great reward in heaven.
**
That wasn't my point. My point is that people can do anything in the name of God, regardless of what God wants, or favors.
Also, you didn't give me a Biblical reference on the topic of why homosexuality is wrong. I ask for one constantly on the boards, and nobody can come up with it.
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"My guitar gently weeps." George Harrison, 1943-2001
What I,as a diehard Atheist, want to see is a medical reason as to why homosexuality is wrong.
And Insano Said
Persecute, no. Force, that's not good either. But trying to convince someone that their religion is right, that's good. Nonviolent methods. The reasons I tell people about my religion is not because I want my standing with God to go up, but because I want them to be in heaven.
Which is just and good,because if there is a heaven,and personally I haven't found any scientific evidence for it,then people would obviously want to be there rather than in some Anti-heaven.
However,Seventh Day Adventists,Jehovah's Witnesses and the like are always coming round to my house trying to convert my family.
But anyway it really annoys us.Is going around to peoples houses to try to argue them into signing up justifiable?
No.Religion is not like fly-by-night insurance. If people feel the need for God,they will seek Him/Her/It out themselves.
And Insano Said
A lot of people are dying in the name of God. Some just not the right one. The ones dying for the one true god have great faith and I'm sure await a great reward in heaven.
The definition of the "right" God is based on perspective.
A Muslim terrorist beleives he will go to Paradise because he is serving Allah.
The American fighter pilot who attacks Afghanistan believes he will go to Heaven because he is serving God.
If God exists,it is probably as some kind of universal entity which is interpreted by different cultures in different ways.
The point is that if God exists,then every religious sentient being in the universe worships the same God.
And Insano Said
If it isn't wrong and you say didn't say that it's right, then what is it?
Different,that's all.
I don't think that people conciously choose to be homosexual,it's just the way their hormones work.Just as everyone else with all the right bits in the right places feels lust,homosexuals must also feel lust.
If people didn't,no-one would screw at all(and I'm not saying that wouldn't be a bad thing).
It's just that they obviously feel lust for the same gender.
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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/shades_shipyard")Shade's Shipyard(/url), the source for your ship needs.
Yeah, the whole concept of one religion being better or more-correct than another is absolutely insane. Those door-to-door zealots are quite annoying. My mom (back in Colorado where they swarmed us constantly) used to keep a bunch of pamphlets from our church near the door, and when the mormons or whoever came, she would try to convert them. Not very effective, but funny as hell. 
But there is really no way of knowing other than scriptured by man for man that have been passed down and maybe even manipulated over thousands of years.
I am very anti-anti-homosexual, but still I think I should share this. 1 Corinthians, 6:9 (the 6:9 is not a joke. Look for yourself.)
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually imoral nor idolators nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"
I, for one, think the Bible is pretty much, well, self-contradictory and hypocritcal. God is infinetly loving and forgiving, yet we will burn forever if we don't do exactly what he says? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but you must forgive and love?
I know now exactly where, but somewhere I read a parable where man's brother had offended him and he had forgiven his brother 70 times, and he asked Jesus exactly how many more times he should forgive his brother. Jesus said something like multiply the times you have forgiven him by 79, or some ridiculously high number, insinuating that you should just forgive instantly, and not keep track. Or something to the affect of all that.
My point is that this book is really not entirely perfect. It is written by man, and is therefor imperfect, no matter what inspired it. We cannot base our lives on this book. And would not a God love your more for developing your own moral code and following it, than just doing what you are told? To govern ones self based on a moral code that you yourself had to decide upon is a much more comendable thing than obediance.
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--ares
(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)
"A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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Not the right God? One true God? I believe that there is a God, and there probably is, but how can you say that any version of God is wrong? When all you have to go by is a vague and confusing book written thousands of years ago, of which there are hundreds or thousands of different translations, how can you say definetly exactly who and what God is?
Hmm... Lots of people goin' at me and it's hard to keep track of it all. But I'll keep defending my faith unless no arguments I make will do any kind of changing. Which will probably be the case. First off, how do you know it's vague and confusing? How much of the Bible have you actually read? And in those hundreds of different translations, there are absolutely NO differences big enough to change what the Bible is teaching. John 14:6 says, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Fater except through me.'" Since I believe my religion is true, this means all other religions are false.
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Saying that the source of scripture is God in scripture isn't a valid arguement for itself. It's circular reasoning. Besides, the Bible was written by men, and men are biased individuals.
OK, forget that scripture, I don't need it anyway. If the Bible was written by men, men aren't perfect, right? Yet, every single thing in the Bible agrees with itself. It was written by 40+ authors, across three continents, across 1600 years. And there are no contradictions. No prophecy or event has been disproven. If this isn't enough evidence then nothing will convince you.
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Also, you didn't give me a Biblical reference on the topic of why homosexuality is wrong. I ask for one constantly on the boards, and nobody can come up with it.
Watch this. Leviticus 18: 22 says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." I guess you can't say that anymore. 
Sorry, needed to lighten this up a little.
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If people feel the need for God,they will seek Him/Her/It out themselves.
Wow, I'm really getting to work out my apologetic muscles aren't I? Just because one does not feel the need for God, doesn't mean it's there. For example, I may not feel the need for an important body organ, so I have it removed. This does not mean that I didn't need that organ.
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The point is that if God exists,then every religious sentient being in the universe worships the same God.
See my reference to John 14:6 above.
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Different,that's all.
I don't think that people conciously choose to be homosexual,it's just the way their hormones work.Just as everyone else with all the right bits in the right places feels lust,homosexuals must also feel lust.
If people didn't,no-one would screw at all(and I'm not saying that wouldn't be a bad thing).
It's just that they obviously feel lust for the same gender.
sigh I've already discussed this above. This is going in a circle. Read my earlier posts on this subject.
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Go to the Escape Velocity Empire. (url="http://"http://evempire.netfirms.com")http://evempire.netfirms.com(/url) Post all your stuff and enjoy everyone else's.
Worms Armageddon name: Insano
XWA name: KMG_Corran
STVEF name: Insano
So you believe you are right, and therefor everyone else must be wrong? You should keep an open mind about religion. Besides, stradling the fence is probably the only way you can not be "wrong" about religion. I love the quote that pops up on the boards once in a while (though I cannot remember the writer) "Agnostic means that I do not pretend to know where most ignorant men are sure of" or something like that. Sure, the bible may be good proof of all of what you believe, but how does that make muslims and jews wrong? Much of their literature is shared with the Old Testament. They have their own scriptures, so they can call you wrong as easily as you can call them wrong.
As for the contradiction thing, I would like to point to some of the stuff mentioned before. The bible is very self-contradictory at times. I'm no biblical scholar, but I can cite a few examples. Read my previous post. I'm sure a more educated person on the subject can back me up.
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--ares
(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)
"A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
I wasn't going to reply, but since it's SO amusing...
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
**1. Almost all homosexual men had an absent father from the home. He was either working all the time, or not around the house because of a divorce or other reason.
2. They had an overprotective mother and/or one who hated men. This could have been from a divorce, abuse, or other reason.
3. They were recruited by someone else. This one's the biggie.
**
1. I have a father and he is home quite a bit.
2. My mother is not overprotective, and she is not quite anti-feminist, but almost there.
3. I knew I was attracted to males before I knew that's what homosexuality was.
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eeelllephant fissshh....
A little insight into "choice"
A lot of people like to accuse gay people of choosing to be gay. A lot of gay people like to scream that it isn't a choice. The truth is that neither is true, because it depends on how you define homosexuality. A lot of anti-gay people will define it simply has having sexual relations with a member of the same sex. Most gay or pro-gay people define it as having sexual relations and being attracted to the same sex, depending on the context in which homosexuality is being referred to.
Thus, you have anti-gay people screaming "how can it not be a choice to have sex with a guy?!" and you have pro-gay people screaming "how can my sexual attractions be a choice?!".
"Reparative therapy" is not the process of become attracted to the opposite sex, it's the process of avoiding homosexual relations and repressing attractions. I'm not going to make moral judgments about reparative therapy, suffice it to say that I think it's effectiveness could vary starkly from one person to another. I suppose it depends on how much you value your true sexuality.
As with most things, it's more complex than stupidity. Unfortunately, stupidity usually prevails.
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eeelllephant fissshh....
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
OK, forget that scripture, I don't need it anyway. If the Bible was written by men, men aren't perfect, right? Yet, every single thing in the Bible agrees with itself. It was written by 40+ authors, across three continents, across 1600 years. And there are no contradictions. No prophecy or event has been disproven. If this isn't enough evidence then nothing will convince you.
The Bible is not a history in many cases; it is a metaphor. You can't possible tell me that the world was created in six days. I'm a Christian as well as you are, but I don't put blind faith in a document, I place my faith in God Himself.
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Originally posted by Insano:
**Watch this. Leviticus 18: 22 says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." I guess you can't say that anymore. Sorry, needed to lighten this up a little.
**
I think that it's against bisexuality, not homosexuality. After all, someone who's gay doesn't lie with a woman as with a man, now, does he?
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"My guitar gently weeps." George Harrison, 1943-2001
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So you believe you are right, and therefor everyone else must be wrong?
Not on all stuff. Just that which contradicts Scripture. I believe all Scripture is true, and since I believe all scripture is true, John 14:6 is true, and the only way to God is Jesus.
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The Bible is not a history in many cases; it is a metaphor. You can't possible tell me that the world was created in six days. I'm a Christian as well as you are, but I don't put blind faith in a document, I place my faith in God Himself.
And why couldn't it be? God is all powerful, so He can make the world in six days if he wants.
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I think that it's against bisexuality, not homosexuality. After all, someone who's gay doesn't lie with a woman as with a man, now, does he?
You knew what it meant. And there are other references, I just can't recall them right now. I'm just too lazy to look for them right now.
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As for the contradiction thing, I would like to point to some of the stuff mentioned before. The bible is very self-contradictory at times. I'm no biblical scholar, but I can cite a few examples. Read my previous post. I'm sure a more educated person on the subject can back me up.
Please, name one. I haven't found any and would like to hear one.
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Go to the Escape Velocity Empire. (url="http://"http://evempire.netfirms.com")http://evempire.netfirms.com(/url) Post all your stuff and enjoy everyone else's.
Worms Armageddon name: Insano
XWA name: KMG_Corran
STVEF name: Insano
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Originally posted by Jimbob:
**Hey, Boozaramas been going downhill lately, and it's no fun in there anymore. We need to get some newbies and the originals to start posting. It's not like (for Newbs) were "evil" or something, so come on in and post. An Captain Skyblade an Macavenger, where have you been? We're getting ready for the holidays, and we need you guys.:frown:
**
I joined once, but I had a really hard time seeing any fun in it, actually. Maybe I didn't do my very best... Heck, it's a shame that something so many of you seem to like, is dying.
I might add, that the times I have read a Boozerama Bar, and laughed, are utterly few. Though the times I have laughed, it has been whilst rolling on the floor!
How about a peaceful Levo Spaceport bar instead, eh?
Where everyone is allowed, no matter how many Shuttlecrafts your shot down with your Cruiser!
//KaBoomer
P.S. It's 07:00 in the morning here, and I haven't slept all night... zzzzzzzz D.S.
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If you cannot say something nice about a man, cut his head off! >=)
I wondered if Lobster would find this... I'd listen to him, Insano. He's the local expert on this, you could say.
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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com
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Originally posted by Insano:
And why couldn't it be? God is all powerful, so He can make the world in six days if he wants.
But He didn't. The story of creation was just that: a story. It was intended for simple minds, and humans are more sophisticated than that, now. This isn't an issue of ability; this is an issue of fact. I suppose that you don't believe that dinosaurs existed.
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Originally posted by Insano:
You knew what it meant. And there are other references, I just can't recall them right now. I'm just too lazy to look for them right now.
Yes, you meant that you interpret it as a condemnation of homosexuality. I don't. As with all documents, the reader interprets.
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Originally posted by Insano:
**Please, name one. I haven't found any and would like to hear one.
**
"An eye for an eye." "Turn the other cheek."
Again, it is a bad idea to put blind faith in a document. I am convinced that the Old Testament is little more than the basic ideals of the societies responsible for their writings, and not so much the Word of God, though there are the 10 Commandments, and the Psalms (I believe that music is one of God's beautiful creations).
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"My guitar gently weeps." George Harrison, 1943-2001
