IonStorm wrote:
**

...

I also checked to see if my experiences with primary weapons over the last several years with EV have been wrong. It turns out that lasers do, infact, have a longer range than protons. According to my fresh copy of EV Data and EV.com ( (url="http://"http://www.escape-velocity.com/help/weapons.html")http://www.escape-ve...lp/weapons.html(/url) ) both lasers and protons have a duration of 30, however lasers have speed of 875 versus the slower 850 of protons. More speed over the same time means more distance.

...

Jason**

You're right, and I was under this misconception too. I think that the proton bolt cannon description, which compares it to the neutron cannon, contributes to this. The rounds have a "long range." In contrast, the laser cannon is just described as standard armament. I think the ranges are functionally the same: I wouldn't try to take someone out on the assumption I could control combat distance to take advantage of the 1.03x difference in range (although maybe with a tractor beam . . .).

For damage, with the rep rates accounted for, lasers are superior (1.26x) for shredding shields, while PBCs are almost twice as good (1.85x) at taking out armor. In turrets the use of 3 PBCs makes the rep rate the same, and so the proton turret in better (1.25x) against shields and much better (5x!) against armor. The latter difference (assuming the weapons posting on-line in correct) comes from a solo laser cannon round having a 4.5 damage rating to armor, but a laser turret round having only a 2.5 rating. Perhaps there is an error in the on-line file, I haven't used res-edit to look at my (hot of the Ambrosia disk) copy of EV.

Of course, if space is an issue, PBCs are heavier, so 2 PBCs take 16 tons while 3 laser cannons only take 15. Even if I spot you the 1 ton (critical in one of my applications), the 3 lasers do 0.81x of the damage to armor that the 2 PBCs do, but do 1.89x more to shields. A proton turret uses up another 2 laser cannons worth of space. So, a proton turret compared to a laser turret + 2 lasers does 1.79x more damage to armor, but only 0.61x as much to shields (still accounting for rep rate). Of course, you may not have that many gun sites, and only the turret component of the laser pivots (although only the discrete cannon component of the combo can be used untargeted or corrected for drift). As was said before, the comparison depends on the situation.

Looking back over my post, I have to say I'm a total nerd.

Piloting my HP41 through the Weapons Info Nebula,
-pagangod

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UE Crusader wrote:
**I'd appreciate everyone's opinion on this. The Lightning has very good speed and a combo of missiles and heavy rockets, while the Rapier has more shielding and overall firepower potential.

Of course, It'd help if you said why you think one or the other is better.

Thoughts? **

J'aime la rapičre meilleure, mais je préfčre la Corvette. Et je ne vois pas ce qui est erroné avec parler dans des langues étrangčres.

pagangod wrote:
(1)You're right, and I was under this misconception too...I think the ranges are functionally the same: I wouldn't try to take someone out on the assumption I could control combat distance to take advantage of the 1.03x difference in range (although maybe with a tractor beam . . .).

(2)For damage...As was said before, the comparison depends on the situation.

(3)Looking back over my post, I have to say I'm a total nerd.

Piloting my HP41 through the Weapons Info Nebula,
-pagangod

(1) Actually you can do a good job of this. I use the slightly better range of the laser in a scoutship to easily take out pirate clippers and, with a little more effort, corvettes. The difference in ranges in extended by the proton shots being compressed and the lasers extended by the "wind" while Monty Pythoning. While one could use the wind with protons, you have that much more margin with lasers and one need not always retreat. The range of the tractor beam is smaller than either range. If you use it you want maximum damage in the minimum time. Thus neutrons (if you have the space, which you never do) or protons it the answer.

(2) You are very correct, the situation dictates. I may be better off holding an extra 15 torps than having 5 protons instead of 5 lasers, but then again I may not. Otherwise this would not be such an amusing topic of disucssion.

(3) That may be, however I appreciate you attention to detail.

Jason

IonStorm wrote:

(3) That may be, however I appreciate you attention to detail.

Jason

Working with that attention for detail, I checked my distribution copy of EV, and the simple rigid mounted laser does have the larger damage rating against armor. Probably the fully rigid mounting to a ship chassis allows a tighter beam, resulting in more mass damage (I'm sure).

Gotta go,
-pagangod

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Excuse me, Mr. Jerico, but you must recognize that a Lightning with the three engine upgrades is a hell lot faster than any rapier. However, with ResEdit, anyone(like myself) can turn a Lightning into a Cruiser killer machine(but I annihilate only rebels).

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In my opinion, this is just like the old question, żWhich are better, fast but weaker vessels or slower but more powerful ones?I always pick the first class(confed ships), but here, I would pick the Ligtning. It can outrun the Rapier, and with some well planned flybys it can take out some Rapiers(when fully upgraded).

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It will be a cold day in hell when a lightning's

shields will regenerate fast enough to take out a cnfd crusier

There is a secret weapon called The Forklitf. I am not going to give away its secret(Everybody should knoe it by now), with four or five of those you can disable or destroy a Cruiser, or at least weaken it enough to finish it with Rockets.I really do not think the Forklift is cheating, in case anyone mentions it.

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You can not say it's cheating, but everyone else knows it is. BTW, If you think 22 regen. rate is better than 18, (which it is most certinly NOT!) Then why are a confed cruiser's sheild re. 320? Wouldn't that mean it's sheilds be up to 100% in about 3.2 seconds from 0 in your standards? You should know that the lower number the better, unless you have never touched the EV data file with resedit.

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~(^..^)

Using the Forklift is NOT cheating. Ambrosia traditionally does not include true "cheats" in their games. Admittedly, the Forklift is a secret, but it is not a cheat. It is designed to make the game interesting and is just another one of Ambrosia's jokes of which they are known for.

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the rapier mops up the lightning

now people may say the rapier is slow and clumsy, good for them, that's what upgrades are for buddy, and no, the lightning has no chance whatsoever upgrading to the firepower of the rapier.

Jeremy Woodruff as,
THE WHITE SHADOW

The lightnings better.

1. Looks cooler

2. Can be used in a bay

3. Has more gun slots, equal turret slots.

4. Faster. lightning: speed 350 acceleration: 625 rapier: 300 acceleration: 435

5. Maneuver is 5 while rapiers is only 4

6. 1 extra jump (like thats anything anyway)

7. better shield recharge, 18 is better than 22

8. Less likly to be hit by multiple force weapons that push you hard because the first one will push you more because lightnings have less mass: only 12 compared to rapiers 15.

9. Cheaper 200,000 credits less.

And finally, fighters are more fun to fly than bombers.

Chamrin

Uhm, less mass means that if you get hit, you fly farther. Think of a car in space; Fire a cannon ball at it and it starts drifting away. Now think of a Confed Cruiser in space; fire a cannonball at it and it will move about as fast as your fingernails grow, and of course it then promptly blows the crap out of you. :).

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-Shade

(url="http://"http://www.crosswinds.net/~shadeofblue/")EV:O Revenge(/url)

Jeremy Woodruff wrote:
**the rapier mops up the lightning

now people may say the rapier is slow and clumsy, good for them, that's what upgrades are for buddy, and no, the lightning has no chance whatsoever upgrading to the firepower of the rapier.

Jeremy Woodruff as,
THE WHITE SHADOW**

So you´re comparing AI vs. human?
Try using a lightning against a Rapier and let´s see who wins.

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--------------------
Always loyal
to the Confederation

Lightning by far. I built a mission set once for my own entertainment where you could watch 2 ships of your choice duke it out. When the Rapier died a horrible death, the lighting's shields hadn't yet dipped below 35%...A clear victory.

KoS

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All hail the Keeper Of Souls, owner of all things true!

ShadeOfBlue wrote:
**Uhm, less mass means that if you get hit, you fly farther. Think of a car in space; Fire a cannon ball at it and it starts drifting away. Now think of a Confed Cruiser in space; fire a cannonball at it and it will move about as fast as your fingernails grow, and of course it then promptly blows the crap out of you.:).
**

Exactly my point. The first torpedo hits you and launches you, so your going much faster and the second and third torp behind you are too slow to catch up, try killing an alien fighter with torpedoes, you can never get them to hit all at once, no matter how many torpedoes you have.

Chamrin

The Lightning is a better ship when dealing with fighters like the Rapier and Lightning which have realtively low shields and armor. As ships get bigger though, shields and armor are more of a strength factor, but at the fighter level sacrificing them for speed is acceptable (which it is not in capital ships like the Rebel Destroyer), so the Lightning's speed allow it to dodge torpedoes and run circles around the Rapier. It is clearly the better fighter. In an AI vs. AI battle, the Lightning will always win and in human vs. AI the Lightning will win resoundingly.

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Live long and perspire,
--Marcus B.
The Monkey

The lightning is much better, if just for its sheild recharge rate and speed (which are all you need to take on ANY opponent). Best way to fly it is found with the EV Game Expander Plugin where you carry a lot of sheild and armor upgrades and an afterburner and the only weapon you need is a beam laser. I wouldn't be caught dead in a rapier.

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an escape pod would kick any ships ass by far..no need to have a conversation any more..
i personally preffer a COnfed cruiser by trying to capture it with a shuttle craft but every damn time the confed make me choose a escape pod...
see!
even the comp. wnats me to use a escape pod!
hooray 4 the escape pod.!!
...but u will all see that when i conquer the galaxy with my shuttlecraft and my handy dandy escape pod..........

MUHAHHAAHA...i will crush the confeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The Rapier has more cargo room and more room for expansion. If outfitted well enough, it can take out over 27 lightnings and a kestrel or two in one battle. Belive me, I did the TAG missions in a rapier, even the last one.

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100 bottles of beer on the wall, 100 bottles of beer, take one down, pass it arround, 99 bottles of beer on the wall.....