Mag, if they lose to gunships like that, they are total crud in a relative sense.
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What you need to realise, Darkk, is that fighting gunships is not the only situation human carriers are going to be in. Human gunships are excellent ships. They are also members of the gunship class. The gunship class is designed to take out the carrier class. Human carriers are not that great, as far as carriers go. Therefore, whenever we have excellent gunships fighting low-quality carriers, we get a gunship victory. However, put those carriers in a situation they're good at, and they'll do great. Likewise, swarm those gunships with aud cruisers and you have some very dead gunships. It all depends on the situation.
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
On the subject of cloaks on HVDs I think that it is a waste of time. The weapon space could be better used as cloaks are only useful against a human player. AIs 'Fly-By-Radar' and finding claked ships is easy for them. The only games where cloaks on HVDs are useful are the one player v lots of computer ships or the one net ship v one net ship (e.g. space warz).
On unrelated matters human guships are probably the best ships for killing carriers as the have a good ammo/life ratio. what I mean by ammo/life ratio is that ships with good ammo/life ratios are destroyed just as they run out of ammo (including reserve energy) ships with bad ammo/life ratios are destroyed before they fire much of their ammo or are destroyed a long time after they run out of ammo. This means that some of the space taken up by unused ammo could be used to carry more shields or some of the space taken up by shield generators could be used for more ammo. HVDs have some of the worst ammo/life ratios.
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Grand Fleet Admiral Slathkill, Supreme Commander I.M.A. Fleet -
As for cloaks on HVDs, I think they are extremely useful. As long as the ships you build to follow your HVD also have cloaks, you can cloak your entire fleet that way. Believe me, that tactic works extremely well. Also, they are very useful for destroying your opponent's HVD in multiplayer, as they have a hard time finding you.
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
Quote
Originally posted by Mag Steelglass:
**As for cloaks on HVDs, I think they are extremely useful.
**But only for ONE human controlled ship v ONE human controlled ship when you bring AIs into it they can find cloaked ships easily.
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Grand Fleet Admiral Slathkill, Supreme Commander I.M.A. Fleet -
Cloaks suck for close-range combat, I'll admit that, but what you don't understand is their usefulness at long range. Salrillian transports are deadly because they can't be found until you hear them landing at your base. Now imagine a Salrillian heavy destroyer. You don't know where it is, and it's still a very powerful ship. Add a fleet of cloaked gunships, and you have some extremely useful stealth shields.
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
Im not talking about cloaks on transports. Im talking about cloaks on HVDs. I think that the weapon space taken up by the cloak could be more efficiently used by holding a weapon. That is one of the main ways that EV et al are better than Ares. Cloaks dont take up a weapon space.
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Grand Fleet Admiral Slathkill, Supreme Commander I.M.A. Fleet -
Only the first part of my argument was about cloaks on transports. The rest was ships in general.
Heck, I have an idea for how to prove to you that cloaks on HVDs are nasty. Get on GR, and start a game with somebody, with you being Salrillians. First thing, build 3 transports, and cloak them as you build them. When all 3 are built and cloaked, send them off to the other guy's planet. Then build gunships until you are out of resources. When you're done building them, tell them all to cloak. Cloak yourself. Your enemy now has no idea where any of your ships are. All they know is where your planet is, which is why you should immediately warp away from any major landmarks, like bunker stations and planets. And be sure not to escort your transports, as your ships will attempt to fire at any enemy ships warping nearby, which would give away your position. Just stay in the middle of nowhere, building only gunships and cloaking them as they are built, and raid enemy bunker stations, transports, etc., until your transports get near their planet. Then, warp to the planet and make sure that no ships the enemy builds will kill the transports. The only way that this strategy can fail is:
A: You have bad piloting skills.
B: You deviate from it.
Your opponent has spent lots of time playing against people using this strategy, and knows some ways to try to counter it.Try this, and you will see the usefullness of cloaks on HVDs.
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
Im not against cloaks on transports or gunships because the cloak doesnt take up a weapon space that is used on other races ships. I fell that HVDs would be better with another weapon instead of the cloak.
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Grand Fleet Admiral Slathkill, Supreme Commander I.M.A. Fleet -
one way you can win against the sal trans/gunship cloak thing is keep everything at your base except 2 ships with you and move alittle up/down from your planet and wait till you see dots on your screen/radar and those are the transports.
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insert famous line from either StarWars, Myth 2, Marathon Trilogy, Ares, StarCraft, Ultima Online, or from Ender's Quartet here -
Cloaks would be good for weak ships with lots of guns. Just decloak and pop up next to your enemy, and then blast it real quick before you die. I would like a cloak on the Eleejan Cruiser. THAT would be cool.
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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url). -
Except for one thing. The game wouldn't be challenging any more. However, if you had already beat the entire game, well then, that ship might not be so bad after all! You could have loads of fun with it!
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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url). -
Well, your ideas are all fine and good, except one thing-
AI ships can see cloaked ships just fine. Humans can often tell where cloaked ships are. Cloaks are useless at close range.
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
The only place cloaks do any good is if there is an asteroid or something between you and them, AND you are outside radar range.
I've gotten loads of practice nailing cloaked ships at visual range, and can track them with radar OK. At longer ranges, zoom to closest hostile can alert you to the presence of enemies closing under cloak.
Add to that the fact that they take up a weapon slot, and they're pretty much useless tacticly. Strategicly coughSaltransportscough they do OK, but still aren't the greatest.
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Error: target is violating the laws of physics
Error: target is locally exceeding c
Error: unable to determine if target exists or not
Error: target cannot be hit -
Instead of creeping up on your enemy, which is pretty pointless if they have AIs escorting them, you come in quickly and destroy things aided by the weapon taking the cloaks weapon space. That weapon might make all the difference. Cloaks would be alright if yhey didnt take up a weapon space like in EV.
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Grand Fleet Admiral Slathkill, Supreme Commander I.M.A. Fleet -
Whenever I get terran wars done (probably not for a long time), you guys will see just how useful cloaks are...
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"Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here
Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near
Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh
An da hurt'll dissapear" -
Ive beaten a Gaitori gunship with 2 Gaitori cruisers escorting it with a Ishman fighter!! All u have to do is get out of the way of those yellow pulse thingys and stay behind the cruisers and pelt the gunship with your beam cannon. Although i only did this in single-player mode.
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Has anyone played with the Obish Carrier in Obish Vs. Eljeetian plug? IMHO the Obish carrier can whoop any ship in the game its fast, powerful, and the fighters arent bad... it is also extreamly overbalanced two of them can take out a fleet composed of Eljeet gunships in a matter of seconds. i never got beat with them and frankly i dont think its possible they are just too powerful.
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"Learn about art captian,
when you understand a
species' art you
understand that species"